Obsession with numbers matching.
11-18-2013, 12:09 AM
#41
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Brentwood Tennessee
Posts: 2,409
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cruise-In II Veteran
Cruise-In III Veteran
Everyone should at least appreciate a real numbers matching car. Its a piece of history and nostalgia from a time long gone.
11-18-2013, 10:30 AM
#42
I will never understand Corvette owners obsessed with numbers. Matching numbers, casting numbers, etc. Had my 66 been a numbers matching car I likely would not have purchased it. I want the option to be able to go out in my garage and decide that I want new wheels, or a different intake manifold, or any other mod, and not be so afraid that the originality would be compromised and the value diminished by thousands of dollars. What a confined space to live in, but I suppose some people like not having a choice.
And on that oh-so-original 67 with 3k miles on it, with all the bits so lovingly laid out and displayed, and all the casting numbers documented with such detail, not a single mention of the Offenhauser valve covers. I see that car and feel sad. Sad that for the last 46 years it has had to sit still, when it should have been out on the road and been driven.
Long live modified cars!
.
And on that oh-so-original 67 with 3k miles on it, with all the bits so lovingly laid out and displayed, and all the casting numbers documented with such detail, not a single mention of the Offenhauser valve covers. I see that car and feel sad. Sad that for the last 46 years it has had to sit still, when it should have been out on the road and been driven.
Long live modified cars!
.
11-18-2013, 10:44 AM
#44
Race Director
Doug
11-18-2013, 11:07 AM
#45
Melting Slicks
I don't get it on restored cars. I have the numbers matching engine for my car and it only matters to me because I know it adds value for some strange reason.
However, my car is not original and anyone that has restored a car knows darn sure it isn't original. I'd rather see an actual original car with all of its flaws than a perfect restoration. None of these cars left the factory perfect and these 'restored to original' cars are well over done and certainly not representative of what the factory offered.
I'd also rather see a non original car that actually gets driven than a 'restored to original' one that no one sees.
In my opinion 'numbers matching' started out adding value because if you could find a car that had all the numbers matching it meant the car wasn't abused. This is a good thing when buying a classic car. However, now that people have faked the numbers matching thing it just doesn't make a lot of sense anymore. I'm 99% sure my numbers matching engine is original and I know it lived in my car until about 10 years ago. That does add value to me because I know I have a car that has been loved for its whole life. And that's about it. I don't even know if I can place a dollar amount on that personally.
However, my car is not original and anyone that has restored a car knows darn sure it isn't original. I'd rather see an actual original car with all of its flaws than a perfect restoration. None of these cars left the factory perfect and these 'restored to original' cars are well over done and certainly not representative of what the factory offered.
I'd also rather see a non original car that actually gets driven than a 'restored to original' one that no one sees.
In my opinion 'numbers matching' started out adding value because if you could find a car that had all the numbers matching it meant the car wasn't abused. This is a good thing when buying a classic car. However, now that people have faked the numbers matching thing it just doesn't make a lot of sense anymore. I'm 99% sure my numbers matching engine is original and I know it lived in my car until about 10 years ago. That does add value to me because I know I have a car that has been loved for its whole life. And that's about it. I don't even know if I can place a dollar amount on that personally.
11-18-2013, 11:31 AM
#46
Three groups of people I will never understand-
1. Twilighters
2. Furries
3. Corvette owners obsessed with numbers.
So why does it matter if the numbers match? Are the tires the original ones from the 60's? If they've been replaced then it's not original. Did you replace the oil filter when you changed oil? Then it's not original. Battery replaced? Not original.
The Corvette is a car. Drive it, enjoy it, use it up. Replace parts on a whim.
BTW both my Corvettes are non matching and I couldn't care less. If I had a numbers matching midyear, I would sell it in a heartbeat to some OCD for an artificially elevated price.
Numbers matching only means that some gouges in a piece of metal look similar to some embossings made in another piece of metal popriveted on. That is worth thousands of dollars??
Now I await a rebuttal from a furry Twilighter with their numbers matching mid-year.
.
1. Twilighters
2. Furries
3. Corvette owners obsessed with numbers.
So why does it matter if the numbers match? Are the tires the original ones from the 60's? If they've been replaced then it's not original. Did you replace the oil filter when you changed oil? Then it's not original. Battery replaced? Not original.
The Corvette is a car. Drive it, enjoy it, use it up. Replace parts on a whim.
BTW both my Corvettes are non matching and I couldn't care less. If I had a numbers matching midyear, I would sell it in a heartbeat to some OCD for an artificially elevated price.
Numbers matching only means that some gouges in a piece of metal look similar to some embossings made in another piece of metal popriveted on. That is worth thousands of dollars??
Now I await a rebuttal from a furry Twilighter with their numbers matching mid-year.
.
Why would the antagonist try to tempt, destroy, or turn a hero from his journey (monomyth)?
Why would people who drive Fords hate Chevy's?
It all comes down to competing idolatries. If you say you don't care, but protest too much, instead of asking others with a rhetorical, why not ask yourself the question which you avoid.
11-18-2013, 11:40 AM
#47
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Brentwood Tennessee
Posts: 2,409
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cruise-In II Veteran
Cruise-In III Veteran
11-18-2013, 12:29 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Mar 2010
Location: The Golden Triangle, Florida
Posts: 6,208
Received 1,591 Likes
on
823 Posts
2023 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
St. Jude Donor '20-'21-'22-'23-'24
My car has it's "born with" engine. I wasn't necessarily looking for that when I was looking for a car but that's what I ended up with. Since that is what I have and since I, presumably, paid more to have that, I pay more attention to the tachometer and back off the gas sooner than I would if it were a replacement engine. Doesn't really reduce my enjoyment of the car but it would for some folks.
-- Steve
-- Steve
11-18-2013, 12:53 PM
#49
Safety Car
In my opinion there are only a select few cars that are worth the numbers matching marque. That is the rare unmolested car that has almost all of it's original components. These are the most valuable cars. I appreciate them but I don't want them because I want to drive my corvette and I just can't afford to own one of these time capsules.
There are a lot of people who try to make their cars something they are not; ORIGINAL. As we all know, a car is only original once.
Some restorers try to make the car as original looking as possible to sell for the highest price. I understand why they do it but I don't respect them for it. I think this is what the OP is talking about.
So, to most of us we just want to enjoy our car and have fun with it. We all appreciate the rare original car. But, in my opinion a driver is what most of us want.
There are a lot of people who try to make their cars something they are not; ORIGINAL. As we all know, a car is only original once.
Some restorers try to make the car as original looking as possible to sell for the highest price. I understand why they do it but I don't respect them for it. I think this is what the OP is talking about.
So, to most of us we just want to enjoy our car and have fun with it. We all appreciate the rare original car. But, in my opinion a driver is what most of us want.
11-18-2013, 02:03 PM
#50
Pro
Before this thread gets to long in the tooth, regarding the OP comment “Obsession with numbers matching” I would hope someone offers a legitimate definition for numbers matching?
Can you “obsess” over something with no legitimate definition - by that I mean a definition that is agreed upon by any two groups of automotive enthusiasts?
Can you “obsess” over something with no legitimate definition - by that I mean a definition that is agreed upon by any two groups of automotive enthusiasts?
11-18-2013, 02:32 PM
#52
Safety Car
I will never understand Corvette owners obsessed with numbers. Matching numbers, casting numbers, etc. Had my 66 been a numbers matching car I likely would not have purchased it. I want the option to be able to go out in my garage and decide that I want new wheels, or a different intake manifold, or any other mod, and not be so afraid that the originality would be compromised and the value diminished by thousands of dollars. What a confined space to live in, but I suppose some people like not having a choice.
And on that oh-so-original 67 with 3k miles on it, with all the bits so lovingly laid out and displayed, and all the casting numbers documented with such detail, not a single mention of the Offenhauser valve covers. I see that car and feel sad. Sad that for the last 46 years it has had to sit still, when it should have been out on the road and been driven.
Long live modified cars!
.
And on that oh-so-original 67 with 3k miles on it, with all the bits so lovingly laid out and displayed, and all the casting numbers documented with such detail, not a single mention of the Offenhauser valve covers. I see that car and feel sad. Sad that for the last 46 years it has had to sit still, when it should have been out on the road and been driven.
Long live modified cars!
.
11-18-2013, 02:49 PM
#53
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Mar 2010
Location: The Golden Triangle, Florida
Posts: 6,208
Received 1,591 Likes
on
823 Posts
2023 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
St. Jude Donor '20-'21-'22-'23-'24
And here's something to think about. My car has matching numbers for engine, transmission, and differential. However, the coding on the differential indicates it has 3:70 gears but I believe the gearing is really 3:55. So I have a differential case that matches but the stuff inside isn't original. To me, this is not a "real" numbers matching car because it doesn't have all of the original drivetrain. And that's what I will tell buyers if I ever sell the car. Anything else is deceptive in my mind.
-- Steve
11-18-2013, 03:13 PM
#54
Racer
I totally agree ,I always get a chuckle when I here 'It's ALL original except for ' fill in the blanks. A restored car is not original . How many threads have we all seen on 'how do I re stamp a block'. My advice to folks that want to get in to the corvette hobby and are worried about originality is buy a new one, then you know for sure that it is .
Last edited by blue63cpe; 11-18-2013 at 03:15 PM. Reason: spelling
11-18-2013, 06:53 PM
#56
Drifting
Not sure the everyone statement is gonna work for either of us
Build, buy, drive or show your car the way you want and enjoy it....as far as an in investment is concerned I pay someone else to worry about that so I can DRIVE the car I want.
11-18-2013, 08:24 PM
#57
First off, the OP seems to not understand that "matching numbers" does not always guarantee originality. I agree, its up to the owners to have whatever kind of car they want. Lets just enjoy our cars. I am going into the garage now to kiss my "original matching numbers" 63.
Boyan
Boyan
11-18-2013, 08:50 PM
#58
Le Mans Master
No, he isn't. It's the real deal, no issues and no excuses.
11-18-2013, 11:31 PM
#59
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Brentwood Tennessee
Posts: 2,409
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cruise-In II Veteran
Cruise-In III Veteran
OK?.....but how about at least appreciating the engineering that went into my Vetterod to hide all the wiring and computer inside the fender wells to make the engine compartment sanitary, or the engineering to install air bags so I could get the stance I wanted for the car....... Not sure the everyone statement is gonna work for either of us Build, buy, drive or show your car the way you want and enjoy it....as far as an in investment is concerned I pay someone else to worry about that so I can DRIVE the car I want.
Build, buy, drive or show your car the way you want and enjoy it....as far as an in investment is concerned I pay someone else to worry about that so I can DRIVE the car I want.I respect numbers matching cars, survivors, and restomods. I basically just love classic vettes.
11-19-2013, 06:56 AM
#60
Melting Slicks
The OP may not have been aware that choosing this topic is about the easiest way to start a tribal fight 
There is no less logic in the desire for Matching Numbers than in the desire for a C2 or any other car. It all happens between our ears anyway. I am not a Matching Numbers type, but those who are have every right to be and fully enjoy it
There is no less logic in the desire for Matching Numbers than in the desire for a C2 or any other car. It all happens between our ears anyway. I am not a Matching Numbers type, but those who are have every right to be and fully enjoy it