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Old 12-16-2012, 02:00 PM   #1
eyedocs96
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Default 65 muncie installation?

I have the body off my 65. I'm trying to install the muncie 4 speed onto the back of my 350. I have the transmission almost completely in but I can't seem to line up the shaft with the pilot bushing. I have about 1 inch until the tranny and engine come together. I have tried lifting the tranny and moving to try and engage the two but no luck. Just wondering if there is a trick or just keep trying.
Thanks Brian
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:03 PM   #2
midyearvette
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyedocs96 View Post
I have the body off my 65. I'm trying to install the muncie 4 speed onto the back of my 350. I have the transmission almost completely in but I can't seem to line up the shaft with the pilot bushing. I have about 1 inch until the tranny and engine come together. I have tried lifting the tranny and moving to try and engage the two but no luck. Just wondering if there is a trick or just keep trying.
Thanks Brian
did you use a clutch alignment tool??
auto parts stores have them
clutch discs come in two variety of teeth on the input shaft, be sure the disc is correct for your spline count.......

also my experience is to put the trans. in gear and not neutral
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:04 PM   #3
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assuming you are using a clutch disc with the right splines.... if you use a pilot shaft to line up the disc hole with the pilot bushing it will be easier. if you've already done that, check to see in the pilot shaft still slides in; if it does then it might just take a bit of 'wiggling' of the trans to get it to slide in
Bill
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:06 PM   #4
eyedocs96
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I used the installation tool and the splines seem to be engaged. I think the shaft isn't going into the bushing since it only needs to go another inch or so.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:14 PM   #5
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Before you installed the bushing did you make sure it went onto the input shaft.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyedocs96 View Post
I used the installation tool and the splines seem to be engaged. I think the shaft isn't going into the bushing since it only needs to go another inch or so.
if the tool goes in, then the trans. should too
check the input shaft for any burrs and maybe a little wiggle jiggle with the unit in gear or start the bolts and gingerly turn them in with a wrench....

do you have the correct bell housing??
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyedocs96 View Post
I used the installation tool and the splines seem to be engaged. I think the shaft isn't going into the bushing since it only needs to go another inch or so.
Sounds about right. Ok Doc, assuming clutch disc is aligned with pilot bushing...did you prefit the new pilot bushing over the tranny input shaft assuring fitment? Secondly, if you didn't might apply light coat of lubricant over tip of tranny input shaft.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:26 PM   #8
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I could never make the wooden or plastic tools work well. I finally got an old splined input shaft/gear and used it for alignment. Works great! Torched the gear off and it fits in my tool box, too!
I suppose that if you had some help, that with the body off, you could use the transmission as the alignment tool! Then when you put the bell housing back on, you'll know it fits! Just make sure the shaft is fully inserted in the pilot bearing when you tighten up the pressure plate.

Harry
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midyearvette View Post
did you use a clutch alignment tool??
auto parts stores have them
clutch discs come in two variety of teeth on the input shaft, be sure the disc is correct for your spline count.......

also my experience is to put the trans. in gear and not neutral
My experience with the plastic tools that come with clutch kits is that they are not tight enough to get the clutch disk aligned so that the transmission will freely slip in all the way to the bellhousing. An old transmission main drive gear seems to work much, much better.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:37 PM   #10
eyedocs96
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Thanks for all the advice. I did check the pilot bushing and it did fit on the shaft. I removed the tranny again and check again with the alignment tool. fits in nicely. Visual check, things look fine. Tried adjusting back of engine to get better alignment. Bell housing is the same that it came with originally. Still cant get it completely in. Time for a break and clear head for another attempt in an hour or two.
Thanks Brian
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:58 PM   #11
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Try having someone push/hold the clutch fork back while you slide the transmission forward for that last inch. That might help out.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:09 PM   #12
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Imagine if you were doing this with the body still on.

A few things to make the job easier.

1. Make sure that the trans input shaft fits through the pilot bushing.

2. Make certain you have the correct clutch and spline count, and that the clutch disc is installed with the correct side facing out. They are usually marked to allow you to verify.

3. Use an old transmission input shaft or plastic alignment tool to initially center the clutch disc. Old transmission shaft is better.

4. Put a small dab of white grease on the transmision input shaft splines (very light film coat on the forward edge of the transmision input shaft splines)

5. Make or buy at least two (2) transmission alignment dowel studs (bolts with heads cut off and about 4 inches in length) that thread into the transmission bolt holes in the bellhousing to help support and align the transmission during installation. You can use 3 or 4 for better results.

6. If needed, have someone push in the clutch pedal to open up the pressure plate and free up the clutch disc to help everything align better during the last 1-2 inches of trans installation.

It sounds like you have done steps 1-3, but no certain about the others. If not, try them. They have always worked for me.

Larry

Last edited by Powershift; 12-16-2012 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:13 PM   #13
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#6 in the above post is what you'll need to do and it will slide right in.

Jim
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:27 PM   #14
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I have tried all but fabricating some alignment pins. All other suggestions I have done. Off to the hardware store.
Thanks again for all your advice.
Brian
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:57 PM   #15
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Alignment pins didn't work. I took off the bell housing and checked the alignment tool fit. It seems a little tight getting the end into the bushing. Could the inner diameter of the pilot bushing have changed when I installed it? I have to beat the alignment tool in a little. It doesn't just slide in easily.
Thanks Brian
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyedocs96 View Post
Alignment pins didn't work. I took off the bell housing and checked the alignment tool fit. It seems a little tight getting the end into the bushing. Could the inner diameter of the pilot bushing have changed when I installed it? I have to beat the alignment tool in a little. It doesn't just slide in easily.
Thanks Brian
it should slide in....dress the bushing with some 400 and then finer.....
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:43 PM   #17
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Try using the bellhousing bolts to slowly pull the two together. Works for me!
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyedocs96 View Post
Alignment pins didn't work. I took off the bell housing and checked the alignment tool fit. It seems a little tight getting the end into the bushing. Could the inner diameter of the pilot bushing have changed when I installed it? I have to beat the alignment tool in a little. It doesn't just slide in easily.
Thanks Brian
I think you found the real problem. Yes, the bushing can/will reduce in diameter a small bit during installation.....especially if it was tough/tight to install.

Usually the plastic alignment tools are a few thousands of an inch SMALLER in diameter than the end of the transmission input shaft. I checked my alignment tool a while back and measured around 0.002 inch difference. If you have a set of mikes or dial calipers you can do the same check to see any differences.

I believe that there should be 0.003-.004 inch overall clearance between the OD of the transmission shaft and the ID of the pilot bushing. The trans input shaft nose should be 0.590 inch OD and the pilot bushings ID is typically 0.594 inch.

Although I won't argue with midyearvette regarding dressing the bushing ID, doing this to an Oillite bushing will close off the oil pores.

You may need to redo the pilot bushing install, and make certain that it goes into the crank without a lot of extra effort. If turning is needed to accomplish this, this will not effect the internal oil pores where the bushing goes against the transmission input shaft. The GM factory pilot bushing has an OD of 1.094 inch.

A lot of excellent info on this in the archives.

Larry
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:28 PM   #19
eyedocs96
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Here is the latest. I removed the bell housing and clutch. I test fit the end of the shaft of the tranny into the pilot bushing. Fits nicely, not too tight. Installed the clutch again. Alignment tool slides in much easier. Attached bell housing and removed the alignment tool. Double checked, slides in easy. Installed tranny and still stops about and inch or less short. I'm tempted to try and start some bolts and pull it together, but I'm scared to break something. Tried wiggling on alignment bolts, no help. Engaged clutch fork, no binding. I'm stumped and taking a beer break.
Thanks Brian
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:43 PM   #20
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Make sure your throw out bearing is installed correctly. I had the same problem and that is what it turned out to be. It is easy to install it incorrectly. I WOULD NOT pull them together with the bolts. JMO
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