jrs 427

Years back it was common to see big block Corvettes in excess of the hundred grand mark. Lately one must have to own an exceptional well documented model to crack 80k. The restamping tool accounted for much of this because there are no base motor cars left to update. As the market floods, the values dip.
Enter the GM crate motor craze. The latest six liter entry with less weight, smaller dimensions, and 450 horse power. EPA certified, drag strip performance, fuel mileage, and drivability head the list.
Sure we will keep the 427s on an engine stand in the garage as a tribute to the " good old days " but having them built to a high degree with the latest and greatest parts may become a trip down a road less travelled. The new generation is all about comfort, style, reliability, with the look of yesterday for a family fun car. Their tool chest consists of a lap top computer. They can change settings from cruise to performance in a parking lot. Solid lifters are an oddity of the past best forgotten as well as the ability to adjust them.
As I see the future the 427 emblems and the unmistakable high rise hoods that hide their secrets will remain. The engine, transmission combinations will get more advanced in technology and change will be the catch word. Would this reflect " rest o rods " ?

ChattanoogaJSB

The super rich are likely to remain rich always, they say. But the pretty rich get hit by the economic swings we've been facing the last 5 years, so it isn't surprising relatively common BB cars are a bit more routinely traded at a discount from their highs. Most of them are not rare enough to be exclusive and therefore collected at the mega-wealthy level. A stable successful contractor for example is likely to buy a host of nice authentic Big Blocks but might cut his spending in a downturn. A worldwide known clothing designer is going to buy Auburns or D-Types whenever he pleases.

If you're suggesting that real Big Block prices are down because of fake cars, and restomods running late model LS6 engines, I don't think those factors are running down prices on restored original BB cars much if at all. I believe right now there is just a little less cash being offered in the pool for mid-entry old cars than there has been in recent years. I also think it's getting better.

The real restored NCRS type BB is a very different purchase than a restomod type car like Jeff's excellent '67.

MiguelsC2

In case anybody hasn't noticed. C2 prices are waaay down. C3,Camaro prices are rising steady.

The age poll says it all. There were a lot of C2s made. Their owners are aging rapidly and their retirement funds dwindling. Therefore the market is flooded with very nice restored etc.. C2s I think that trend will continue. Only the rare optioned cars with provenance will be investment grade.

cv67

price of everything is in the toilet right now not surprised.
Try selling a BBC by itself youll have to pay someone to take it.
Noone wants these old things they are buying LSx stuff or the BIG big blockk crates.
Love my solids I never hear anyone on the road with them.
Some out there remember them you can tell when you pull up to a light and their eyes go Hey I remember those!

jrs 427

It is an awakening to find first and second generation Camaros bringing values equal to the generals sport car considering the quantities built. The retro style Camaro will surely find a place of popularity above and beyond with features available that todays youth demand. Fit, finish, quality, and design indicate a real winner in future sales.

As the older generation of restorers moves out of their garage the newer crowd of gamers look for the " plug and play " versions available at their local dealerships that resemble castles vs sales business locations. Lattes and fresh croissants await owners waiting for an oil change. I am lucky to have somewhat clean knuckles at days end.
How things change.

FASTZ

I disagree.First real documented big blocks have always brought much more than the cars with question marks which were actually brought up in value by the high prices of the real deal cars.With the reasons that you have given here it would seem that small block drivers because of the lower price are ripe for conversion to the newer motors should be on the rise. Instead they seem to be flat.While the real deal high end option cars and especially highly optioned cars that are unrestored are still bringing strong money.I know of a very well documented low mileage unrestored '65 396 that recently sold for $275K and there were more than one buyer trying to buy the car.This same car was maybe $100K a few years ago.While mid year small block drivers were in the $30K-$50k range and still trade in that range but much closer to the lower end then the higher end these days.As far as the real restomods today,by that I mean the cars with a completely new chassis instead of a warmed over older frame,cars with the latest driveline combos with the computers to control them and not just a newer crate motor with an aftermarket ignition system,cars with taste full,comfortable and luxurios interiors not just recovered C4 seats and a small aftermarket steering wheel,cars with taste full body mods with great paint and detail and not cars with just flares added and average paint and chrome.These really done right cars have build prices that start in the $100K+ range and go way up from there.The "new generation" as you put it are for the most part are not in that financial spending group to buy that car.Check out the guys that are having these real nice restomods built or buying them. They are not in their 20s or even 30s. I really like the nicely done restomods as well as the next guy.But I am also old enough to have really liked the modded cars in '70s.80s,90s,etc and they have not survived value wise any where near the cars that are closer to original.

AZDoug

From another perspective.

I bought my Corvette because 1) I wanted a Corvette, not for investment, but because it was fairly light car, that had the potential to look good (it was wrecked when i bought it) could be made fast, and 2), I couldn't afford a 65-67 C2 in 1974.

I don't really give a rats patootie about resale value, i have made my car into a very fast, fun car, I would never buy a car as an investment, I will buy a car to drive and have fun with.

I am sure there are a greater number of people that want to have fun with their cars vs looking at it in a garage.

Where am i going with this? Old BB technology is extremely obsolete, my 427 SB makes MORE AVERAGE POWER across the 2000-5500 RPM band than an original L88 ever did, and lesser 427s, well. Good luck beating me to the finish line, and my car is very streetable, not a ratty idling, gotta launch at 4K RPM or it will bog type motor. On equal tires, I doubt an L88 car could catch me before the 1320 feet was up.

With better running new motors, why would someone want an old boat anchor, unless it is for collection, as in very original, or rare? True a nice tri power is eye candy, but so many are clones, i don't appreciate them unless they are documented original.

Doug

Revfan

I am inclined to say maybe... but not yet.

I think the overall market for everything is down (except gun prices and ammunition).

I am trying to BUY a Corvette myself... BB, SB, Restoration Block... I don't really care as long as its a solid car with good bones that I can drive.

If somebody is giving them away, please let me know who so I can stop selling everything in my house that isn't tied down to get the money.

BLee

They had to come down, especially since the "stupid money" period of the mid 2000s has ended. People were paying big money for anything big block. Well documented real cars are always going to bring top dollar. Those of us that bought it right and did most of the work aren't going to lose anything. Those that overpaid and then had a big $$ restoration done and are selling it now are going to take it in the shorts.

dennis sellards

The prices in the mid 2000s were crazy but all the cars were dragged up in value by the real deal cars.The real deal cars are still high it is the cars that had their value dragged up that are just not improving.And as you point out the buyers that over paid and then dumped for money in those cars and are now selling in a slow market are getting spanked

1snake

Don't forget that the same thing happened in the late 80's- early 90's. High performance car prices exploded due to foreign buyers spending their money here. ANY high performance car was overpriced. I saw a beat AMX sell for $30K back then. BB Corvettes were well over $100K but within a few years, you couldn't sell that same car for $60K. It has been posted many times, only a fool invests his money in cars.

Jim

Revfan

I'll say this, and not that I am the mouthpiece for my Generation (45ish year olds) but the last thing I want to do is drop $35-$60K in a car that I can't drive. I don't want a trailer and a vehicle that can pull a trailer, to lug around the Vette.

I want to drive the car.... drive... Me & the Wife, Me & My 8 year old son, or me & my 10 year old daughter.

So, I hope that there is somebody out there to buy the mint examples to be stared at in museums, but as for me and my family, we are Driving.

Avispa

The age poll is the big issue here. Ordinary (i.e., not rare correct survivors or restored fully correct originals) C2s eventually will lose value, just as they will with first gen Camaros and C3s because the people who love and treasure these cars for what they were are getting old and will slowly be dying off. We love these cars because they were "it" when we were kids. 30-somethings now love Fox body Mustangs because they were "it" for them at the same age. When we're all dead and buried, only the true museum pieces will have any real value.

DZAUTO

I have a Craftsman tool box full of AMERICAN, NOT metric tools. I do my own wrenching------------------NOT programing, and I DO NOT even own a laptop.

And on top of that, I dispise cell phones with a passion. Do I own a cell phone? Yes. Is it ever turned on? Virtually never. Do I text? Not no, but heck no. I don't know how and I have NO DESIRE to learn how to text. Two days ago I turned 70-------------------HOW THE HELL DID I GET THIS FAR IN LIFE WITHOUT A CELL PHONE AND A LAPTOP???????????????????

Tom Parsons

ChattanoogaJSB

32 and couldn't care less about owning one too nice to drive several times a week (in the South we do this all year round). I'm also not interested in having a car so nice underneath it really should be detailed every time it rolls back home. I'm glad those cars are out there, and there are folks preserving them so carefully though.

AZDoug

Detroits odd fascination with hybrid fasteners in the 1980 and 1990s forced me to buy metric tools.

You work on a motor and some bolts are metric and some SAE. Go figure.

OTOH, they came in handy for wrenching on the Ferrari, and now the Toyota truck, (modifications, not repairs) as i gave up on GM after seven new vehicles from them over 25 years and everyone of them had problems, some just annoying, some serious.

Not one single issue with the Tacoma pickup after three years.

Doug

6T5RUSH

Tom,

I'm in that 70's crowd too. But, I have to admit I've migrated to the lap top/cell phone crowd (kicking, screaming, crawling at times LOL!). I admire your steadfastness to hang on and stay focused out of the tech world, but as you say often, BUUUUUT still communicate good advise/experience regularly to this forum. Yup, it's a great question, "HOW THE HELL DID I GET THIS FAR IN LIFE WITHOUT A CELL PHONE AND A LAPTOP???????????????????"

Jim
In God We Trust!

TheGanzman

I'm shopping for a midyear Coupe myself; at 57 I've had a SLEW of muscle cars - both GM and Ford - time for ONE more before I check in to the nursing home!

So for me, I'm glad to see prices down; though I gotta say that I am SHOCKED at how far down Corvette prices have gone in COMPARISON to other muscle/sports car from the same era! '60's/'70's Dodges & Plymouths - REALLY?! Vaguely cool exterior styling, with interiors like Postal Delivery Vehicles. '67-'68 Mustang and Shelby Fastbacks - REALLY?! O.K. - Cool styling, at least on the outside; acceptable styling inside. Now go DRIVE one back-to-back with the LOWLIEST Midyear Corvette - We're done! Hey - REAL cars have FRAMES, f'er Chrissakes! (BTW, I owned a '68 Shelby GT-500 Fastback).

Sure - I'll find a Midyear Coupe for low-mid $30's; then I'll pile ANOTHER $30-$40K in it to make it MINE. Then I'll own it and drive it for at least five years. Let's say that then it'll only be worth $30K again; I've lost ~$40K - HORRORS! What was "Option B"? Buy a new "X-Mobile" for, let's say $50K, drive it for the same five years (let's call annual maintenance the same for both, even though my "builder" will certainly be LESS) - what will the X-Mobile be worth? MAYBE $15-20K? Pretty much the same "loss" either way; the difference being that after 6 months of X-Mobile ownership, it'll be "just another car" in my garage...Defense rests!

MiguelsC2

Not sure, but you won't get too far in the future without them or the products that replace them.. Like it or not, things are changing fast and will change even faster in the future.

jrs 427

Didn't mean to upset anyone about their investments. Just making a casual statement about the current ups and downs of the classic car market. The only " investment " I make is scraping enough green together to get the next ride. Haven't the faintest idea what they will be worth as they will be at the estate sale. I don't plan on attending and the main goal there will be to clean out the garage.
I haven't figured out my fascination yet. I don't drive them, don't show them, haven't waxed one in twenty years. A " caretaker " would better describe my position. A want vs a need I guess. New cars are so comfortable it makes driving a pleasure. I am waiting to see if I can fit or be contortioned into a C-6 or 7 possibly. Being tall does have disadvantages some times but mostly good for the view in a crowd. I love original and admire the old look with current updates. I have run Ls's since the 90s and I feel it may be time to become " one of them ", those outlaws that upgrade and smile a lot.... in an old fiberglass car.