MOXIE62

For anyone that knows about NCRS judging, how far can a car deviated from a factory car. I would like to restore my car to where it can be judged and win as an NCRS car. But if that means that every part has to be correct, then I would lose. For example, I have a reproduction jack and there is no way I would pay the price for a real one because they are so expensive. Would just the jack knock me out as having an NCRS car. If it would, I may as well just be satisfied with a street car. Is there a person one could call to asked questions like this.

5thvet

There are many categories for NCRS awards and they go by point deductions for things that are not original. The more important the part the larger the deduction. You can have a significant number of parts not original and still get an award. You need to get a judging guide to see the actual point deduction for the different parts ( systems). Check their website. You can actually download the judging forms to give you an idea of what is judged for the different levels but I don't think the points are on the forms. I am sure a judge can chime in and confirm ( or deny) that.

Don

Frankie the Fink

Well if you were here at the NCRS regional in Florida you could get an education quite fast. There is a whole school of thought about judging called "cost per point". Basically where you should spend your money to get the highest score...an NCRS judging sheet (not necessarily the guide) is a starting point. Points are allocated on originality and condition. For instance, if you have the wrong paint color its a major deduction - having the wrong numbered water pump is not nearly the same deduction. So -- you'd be much better off dealing with the paint first.

You might find a local NCRS judge to walk you through the judging scheme weighed against your car and advise you on what issues are best dealt with...

Redbird

Get the judging forms and manual and look it over. Attend an event to see how they look at things. It is very informative. I just did it for the first time this past fall with one of my 62s. They explain all the deductions that are taken. The one I had judged is a survivor car and I will be trying to attain the Four-Star Bowtie award as an original car in San Diego. The car attained Second Flight this past fall. If the front signal lights had been working I would have made Top Flight. It was a fantastic experience to go through.

John F

MOXIE62

Right now and maybe later my health is a factor in attending an event. I live in western KY so I'm not sure how close one of the events are. I just got the NCRS judging manual and although I have not read it from end to end, it saids nothing about how they judge and points. To get an NCRS sticker to put on car are you telling me that they have ceratin levels of judging and if you pass the lowest level you would get a sticker.

JohnZ

Basically, every car starts out with 4500 points, and deductions are made during the judging process (by five two-man teams - Operations, Exterior, Interior, Mechanical, Chassis) based on the extent to which each item deviates from typical factory production as described in the Judging Guide for that year car.

You can lose up to 270 points and still make Top Flight, 675 and make Second Flight, etc.

The year-specific Judging Guides and the Corvette Judging Reference Manual (which explains all the awards and describes the judging process in detail) are available from the NCRS on-line store at www.ncrs.org, and the judging/scoring sheets can be downloaded from the NCRS site as well.

In NCRS judging, there are no "winners" llike you find at a regular car show; each car is judged on its own merit against an established, published standard (not vs. any other cars present), and based on its score either qualifies for an award or it doesn't. A week or two after the event, you'll get your judging sheets back, with all deductions and explanations of each, and they'll provide a worklist for you if you choose to continue to improve the car.

Nowhere Man

anybody can get a sticker from NCRS they are only a buck. you are after a blue ribbon. thats the Top Flight award, then a red one is Second Flight and the a Green one is third Flight. you will need a judging reference manual to understand how points are taken away. you start with 4500 points, and work your way down on condition and originally.

for example your are cleaner assembly is worth a 25 points. that includes your lid, filter, base, and wing nut. lets say its all looks brand new. so you loose no points on condition. but your wing nut is not typical of known originals, but the rest is deemed original. so now the two judges will decide how many points you loose. in that case I would take off one point. and then they would move to the next item on there list. the best way to learn is just go to a event and watch or just dive in feet first and take your car there

Mike Ward

The judging sheets are available on the website for download

http://www.ncrs.org/membership/scoresheets.html

as well as a general description of Flight Judging

http://www.ncrs.org/awards.html#Flight

There is no sticker of any sort that's associated with winning an award. If you've seen them in windows of car, they're available for purchase to all all members.

toddalin

You are goiing into this with the wrong frame of mind. This is not a car show and there are no winners or loosers.

You are judged on how close your car is to the day it rolled out of the factory. The further it is from original (or for what passes as original), both in content and condition, the more points will be deducted.

GregP

As far from original as my 65 is I still judge with our local NCRS chapter. It's fun for both the judge and the owner to see what is correct and learn what to do to return what has evolved over the years since it left the factory. If you go into it to learn more about the life of your particular car you will enjoy the experience and gain a wealth of knowledge. I'd start at a chapter meet, then if you get serious move up to regionals and nationals.

-Greg

Frankie the Fink

You sure wouldn't know it by some of the reactions of car owners to having points deducted for something they fell is correct...

Nowhere Man

Well if the owner has some sort of douctmaton to prove the judges other wise the owner can dispute it with the master judge but it can't be here say evidence

Boyan

There is also a need to understand that, like posted earlier, a specific part is not always "wrong" or "correct". The judging goes over a broad spectrum. Each part is judged two ways, Originality and Condition. With respect to Originality, each part is broken down into categories: Finish, Date, Installation, Completeness and Configuration.......each is worth 20%. So it gets complicated.

You have to have at least 10% originality of a part to get any of the condition.

Big items like paint, tires, and added options wont always on their own prevent a Top Flight, but it just makes it really hard to do becuase all the little things add up. If all the big things are OK, then the little ones usually dont add up to knock one out of a Top Flight.

A non original engine deduct of 350 points would keep you out of a Top Flight. An 85 point deduct for paint would not keep you out....generally.

In my opinion, a car has to be very nicely put together with an emphasis on originality to earn you a Top Flight without any driving points, but strange things do happen.

If you just want the sticker, join NCRS on monday and have Eric send you one with your first magazine.

Boyan

Mike Ward

I think what is meant is that cars and owners are not competing against each other in a 'best of class', 'best of show' type of event. The cars are judged against a standard- nothing more, and as often as the owner desires.

gbvette62

Going back to your original question, no a repro jack will not keep you from earning a Top Flight. Reproduction parts are perfectly acceptable.

If the part can be identified as a reproduction, or differs from original in some way, it will receive a partial deduction for originality. A part that is worth 10 points, but is identifiable as a repro, may lose 1 or 2 originality points, but would likely receive all of it's condition points (if warranted).

If reproduction parts received a full deduction and all parts were required to be original, OEM GM parts; there would be very few Top Flight cars in the world!

Nowhere Man

NCRS does not say it has to be original it has to appear original

Mike Terry

We have been stuck in three lanes of traffic for two hrs north of Orlando.

This is Vette Daddy.......gotta vent.......JUDGING SUCKS

cor66vette

I received a 3rd Flight at a local NCRS Chapter meet. I mention it was a Chapter meet because judging at the bigger NCRS events are a lot more strict. I'm not so confident I would have gotten the award at one of their larger venues. I did learn an awful lot about the car, though and it was an education to say the least. That was my first and last NCRS involvement.

Mike Ward

May I ask why?

DZAUTO

I sort of resemble that, but not completely.
I had the 56 judged at a chapter and a regional event years ago. I knew positively for a fact that the car WOULD NOT even make Third Flight. No question about it! I simply had the car judged specifically to see just where it would score. I found out. Neither then nor now have I had any heart burn with the scores------------because I KNEW they would be low.
To even have any chance in hell of achieving a Top Flight, the 56 would have to undergo a 100% frame off-----------------------and I ain't going through that ever again! ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the chrome plated parts would have to be replaced because when they were chromed all the rough surfaces and imperfections were ground away and the surfaces smoothed to produce a show finish. A correct 265, tranny, rear axle housing, leaf springs, drive shaft, etc, etc, etc, would have to be located. Even the soft top frame would have to be replaced because I chromed every piece of it. NOPE, ain't doin' it!
And on top of all that, I really enjoy the greatly increased kick @zz performance of the SB400 over a 2x4 265.

Sooooooooo, what's my whole point? What do you want your car to be? Do you want it to be what you like, or, do you want it to achieve a particular level of NCRS scoring?
It's your car, your money and you should enjoy it the way you want it to be.

Tom Parsons