Have you looked at your convertibe top frame lately?
12-02-2011, 11:00 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Have you looked at your convertibe top frame lately?
Thirty some years ago I put a German Haartz Sonneland canvas top on my 66 roadster. I was tired of the cheap vinyl tops of the time, and as I drove my car all the time, I wanted a top that would look good and last.
30 years later and 150,000 plus miles, it was time for a new top. I have some pictures to share with you of what I found under my old top.
I knew that one of the rivets on the frame was not working as the weatherstrip on the drivers side would not line up, leaving a gap between the window and the two window weatherstrips that bolt on.
First I must say that the material used (tackboard) 45 years ago is far superior to the "fiberboard" sold now. The original board was fiber board sewn between two leather strips.
I found some rust that I have to deal with . The problem that many face with their tops is the nylon bushing that centers the rivets. When it breaks, the top mechanism does not work correctly and you will have uneven weatherstrip problems.
It usually is not the rivet as I found out, but the bushing.
Next, you can order the rivets from most vendors, but none listed the nylon bushing. Without it , you will not be able to fix the problem and be able to set the rivet.
Jerry Sullivan of "Sully's Tops" www.SullysTops.com 1-800-451-3998 Fresno, CA
Gave me a call and he has the bushings. He actually manufacturers the rivets for the vendors who sell them. Funny they don't list them.
He put them in the mail and said, " send me the check when you get them" Very nice man and I would use him for any parts that may be needed to restore the top frame. He is a 17 year NCRS member
Setting the rivet. You need to clamp the rivet, and frame tight, block the rivet and smack the end of the rivet with the hole with a big hammer. Flatten it a bit and pine it over.
I will let you know how that works, I ordered extra rivets just in-case
32 year old top
Bottom , top , sides , rivet hole , rust areas , straps , fiber tack strip of frame
Original tack strip
Rivet and nylon bushing
Weatherstrip kit and padding to be put on after canvas is installed
I am having the top installed after seeing the way the tacks have to be driven. Speedy did it 30 years ago for me and he will do it again on the 12th.
I hope the frame comes out OK, I am doing the work and I am always leery of my work.
I will post some more pictures as I get to work
Jack
30 years later and 150,000 plus miles, it was time for a new top. I have some pictures to share with you of what I found under my old top.
I knew that one of the rivets on the frame was not working as the weatherstrip on the drivers side would not line up, leaving a gap between the window and the two window weatherstrips that bolt on.
First I must say that the material used (tackboard) 45 years ago is far superior to the "fiberboard" sold now. The original board was fiber board sewn between two leather strips.
I found some rust that I have to deal with . The problem that many face with their tops is the nylon bushing that centers the rivets. When it breaks, the top mechanism does not work correctly and you will have uneven weatherstrip problems.
It usually is not the rivet as I found out, but the bushing.
Next, you can order the rivets from most vendors, but none listed the nylon bushing. Without it , you will not be able to fix the problem and be able to set the rivet.
Jerry Sullivan of "Sully's Tops" www.SullysTops.com 1-800-451-3998 Fresno, CA
Gave me a call and he has the bushings. He actually manufacturers the rivets for the vendors who sell them. Funny they don't list them.
He put them in the mail and said, " send me the check when you get them" Very nice man and I would use him for any parts that may be needed to restore the top frame. He is a 17 year NCRS member
Setting the rivet. You need to clamp the rivet, and frame tight, block the rivet and smack the end of the rivet with the hole with a big hammer. Flatten it a bit and pine it over.
I will let you know how that works, I ordered extra rivets just in-case
32 year old top
Bottom , top , sides , rivet hole , rust areas , straps , fiber tack strip of frame
Original tack strip
Rivet and nylon bushing
Weatherstrip kit and padding to be put on after canvas is installed
I am having the top installed after seeing the way the tacks have to be driven. Speedy did it 30 years ago for me and he will do it again on the 12th.
I hope the frame comes out OK, I am doing the work and I am always leery of my work.
I will post some more pictures as I get to work
Jack
Last edited by Jackfit; 02-27-2012 at 07:27 AM.
12-03-2011, 08:47 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Call Jerry
Jerry Sullivan of "Sully's Tops" www.SullysTops.com 1-800-451-3998 Fresno, CA
Gave me a call and he has the bushings. He actually manufacturers the rivets for the vendors who sell them. Funny they don't list them.
He put them in the mail and said, " send me the check when you get them"
Very nice man and I would use him for any parts that may be needed to restore top frames.
Jack
Gave me a call and he has the bushings. He actually manufacturers the rivets for the vendors who sell them. Funny they don't list them.
He put them in the mail and said, " send me the check when you get them"
Very nice man and I would use him for any parts that may be needed to restore top frames.
Jack
12-03-2011, 09:24 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Apr 2002
Location: Ellicott City Maryland
Posts: 2,884
Received 1,963 Likes
on
665 Posts
Jack,
When I replaced my top @ 12 years ago, I was amazed at how badly rusted the header was . . . it was so bad that I had to replace the header. The other parts of the top frame just needed to be sanded and re-painted. Good luck with your latest project!
Tom
When I replaced my top @ 12 years ago, I was amazed at how badly rusted the header was . . . it was so bad that I had to replace the header. The other parts of the top frame just needed to be sanded and re-painted. Good luck with your latest project!
Tom
12-03-2011, 11:16 AM
#4
Safety Car
I wonder if the canvas tops let more moisture through than a vinyl (stock) top does? Thanks Jack for the info... bookmarked www.SullysTops.com
Last edited by vt65; 12-03-2011 at 11:45 AM.
12-03-2011, 11:22 AM
#5
Safety Car
Member Since: Nov 2000
Location: Clinton Township MI
Posts: 4,750
Received 120 Likes
on
99 Posts
Cruise-In III Veteran
Jackfit,
Yup, Sully Tops for me too! Had to replace the header bar on my top frame last year. Sully to the rescue. Not cheap but the EXACT replacement part.
Jim
In God We Trust!
Yup, Sully Tops for me too! Had to replace the header bar on my top frame last year. Sully to the rescue. Not cheap but the EXACT replacement part.
Jim
In God We Trust!
12-03-2011, 11:40 AM
#6
Race Director
Member Since: Jan 2002
Location: Close to DC
Posts: 14,552
Received 2,132 Likes
on
1,470 Posts
C2 of the Year Finalist - Modified 2020
Jack, I know your up for that job, so keep us posted. You really know how to make us convertable owners nervous. 
Dennis
Dennis
12-11-2011, 07:28 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Covertible Top Frame done
Just finished up the frame this afternoon. I drive the car to the installer tomorrow. Weather is going to be cold but dry.
As show in pictures, my frame needed two nylon bushings replaced. The hard part is the setting of the rivets. You can order the rivets from the usual vendors, but it is not the rivet that goes, it is the bushing. You need a special setting tool and the ability to block the rivet. Palmers Springs Shop, making springs and carriages since 1860's had a 70 year old part worker who could set it for me.
A large hammer and anvil helped.
Sully's Tops in Fresno CA was the only place I could find to get the bushings. Jerry makes the rivets for vendors.
Rivet and bushings
Before
After
Sandblasting rust
Old frame
Restored frame on car ready to top installation
Tomorrow pictures of top on car
Jack
As show in pictures, my frame needed two nylon bushings replaced. The hard part is the setting of the rivets. You can order the rivets from the usual vendors, but it is not the rivet that goes, it is the bushing. You need a special setting tool and the ability to block the rivet. Palmers Springs Shop, making springs and carriages since 1860's had a 70 year old part worker who could set it for me.
A large hammer and anvil helped.
Sully's Tops in Fresno CA was the only place I could find to get the bushings. Jerry makes the rivets for vendors.
Rivet and bushings
Before
After
Sandblasting rust
Old frame
Restored frame on car ready to top installation
Tomorrow pictures of top on car
Jack
Last edited by Jackfit; 02-27-2012 at 07:29 AM.
12-11-2011, 07:35 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Not the canvas
I wonder if the canvas tops let more moisture through than a vinyl (stock) top does? Thanks Jack for the info... bookmarked www.SullysTops.com
The fiber holds the moisture and helps cause the rust.
The "vinyl" replacement tack is better. It is plastic and does not absorb water. The installer told me to send it back as he only uses the vinyl.
When I took the old top off, most of the rust was where the fiber tack strips are. Even on the mid bows, that have 3/4 felt and 1//4 tack strips on ends, only the ends had rust.
Jack
12-11-2011, 08:28 PM
#10
Safety Car
Just finished up the frame this afternoon. I drive the car to the installer tomorrow. Weather is going to be cold but dry.
As show in pictures, my frame needed two nylon bushings replaced. The hard part is the setting of the rivets. You can order the rivets from the usual vendors, but it is not the rivet that goes, it is the bushing. You need a special setting tool and the ability to block the rivet. Palmers Springs Shop, making springs and carriages since 1860's had a 70 year old part worker who could set it for me.
A large hammer and anvil helped.
Sully's Tops in Fresno CA was the only place I could find to get the bushings. Jerry makes the rivets for vendors.
Rivet and bushings
Before
After
Sandblasting rust
Old frame
Restored frame on car ready to top installation
Tomorrow pictures of top on car
Jack
As show in pictures, my frame needed two nylon bushings replaced. The hard part is the setting of the rivets. You can order the rivets from the usual vendors, but it is not the rivet that goes, it is the bushing. You need a special setting tool and the ability to block the rivet. Palmers Springs Shop, making springs and carriages since 1860's had a 70 year old part worker who could set it for me.
A large hammer and anvil helped.
Sully's Tops in Fresno CA was the only place I could find to get the bushings. Jerry makes the rivets for vendors.
Rivet and bushings
Before
After
Sandblasting rust
Old frame
Restored frame on car ready to top installation
Tomorrow pictures of top on car
Jack
12-11-2011, 09:17 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Steering wheel
It is a replacement for C3-4 cars , but it fits our hub more or less. Comes in colors and is 15" cost about $200
I have power steering and did not need the extra leverage from the larger wheel. After getting use to it, it feels much better than the old wheel
Jack
12-11-2011, 09:27 PM
#12
Safety Car
Member Since: Nov 2000
Location: Clinton Township MI
Posts: 4,750
Received 120 Likes
on
99 Posts
Cruise-In III Veteran
Hey Jack,
Did you have to replace that header bar on the top frame? I noticed the corners were pretty badly rusted out. That's exactly how mine was. Sully Tops to the rescue. They're the only outfit that makes the replacement headers (so I'm told). That was a pricey fix for me. Good as new now.
Great pics of the before, during and after on this refurbished top frame.
Jim
In God We Trust!
Did you have to replace that header bar on the top frame? I noticed the corners were pretty badly rusted out. That's exactly how mine was. Sully Tops to the rescue. They're the only outfit that makes the replacement headers (so I'm told). That was a pricey fix for me. Good as new now.
Great pics of the before, during and after on this refurbished top frame.
Jim
In God We Trust!
12-11-2011, 09:54 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
No did not replace
Hey Jack,
Did you have to replace that header bar on the top frame? I noticed the corners were pretty badly rusted out. That's exactly how mine was. Sully Tops to the rescue. They're the only outfit that makes the replacement headers (so I'm told). That was a pricey fix for me. Good as new now.
Great pics of the before, during and after on this refurbished top frame.
Jim
In God We Trust!
Did you have to replace that header bar on the top frame? I noticed the corners were pretty badly rusted out. That's exactly how mine was. Sully Tops to the rescue. They're the only outfit that makes the replacement headers (so I'm told). That was a pricey fix for me. Good as new now.
Great pics of the before, during and after on this refurbished top frame.
Jim
In God We Trust!
No I did not replace the front bow, most of the rust was to the corner bottom track that holds the tack strip. The top part that the canvas will go over was pretty strong still, so I just rust proofed the frame, and I am sure it will last long after my driving days are over.
The rest of the frame is in great condition, it will be nice to have nice looking frame to look at when the top is up. The old top even after 30 years , never leaked and looked pretty good , until I started the 48 state trip. I had so much stuff packed that I had to really push down on the frame to to close the deck with the top down. The frame pushed through the canvas after a while.
But , the frame did need work as we could see.
I will post pictures of the completed top tomorrow.
Just one more last job to do on car and that is the steering box rebuild. It is the last original , un rebuilt part left on the car and after 46 years, I am sure it could use it. My suspension is great after all the new stock parts, and this last little job will complete my restoration list.
Lots of little stuff ( loose bolt rolling around door) door felt screws coming loose etc, but the car will be all set for maybe a long boat voyage to the old world and new adventures
We shall see
Cheers
Jack
Santa , could you bring a lift like Jim has
12-12-2011, 11:24 AM
#15
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Would you leave your car here ?
Now the wait, Speed is only 75 years old, I think the car will be done soon..... 
He was waiting for his 60 year old helper to come in
He did the top on my car when he was 45 years old, hope his work is still just as good as it was in 1981
Jack
He was waiting for his 60 year old helper to come in
He did the top on my car when he was 45 years old, hope his work is still just as good as it was in 1981
Jack
Last edited by Jackfit; 12-12-2011 at 11:36 AM.
12-14-2011, 03:18 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
From Speed to Slow in thirty years
I stopped in to see if any progress was being made on my top, Speed said yes and told me , "Don't come back until I call you"
I asked him when that might be? He said " when I do "
I slowly backed out of the door, saying " Oh that's good, I'll wait for your call.
I must have been really silly to think I would get my car back in the same day, he did hint that it might be on Friday.
Of course, I asked him when that might be on Friday ? he said "when I call"
Jack
PS I did get a peek, looks like he still does good work, just a little slower now
I asked him when that might be? He said " when I do "
I slowly backed out of the door, saying " Oh that's good, I'll wait for your call.
I must have been really silly to think I would get my car back in the same day, he did hint that it might be on Friday.
Of course, I asked him when that might be on Friday ? he said "when I call"
Jack
PS I did get a peek, looks like he still does good work, just a little slower now
12-14-2011, 08:13 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
It is new
I have not decided yet what to do with the top.
I had a sail maker here in Maine sew a new window in the old top with the frame still attached last year just before I went on my 48 state trip.
He did all of it by hand almost.
If I don't want it , I will be happy to give it to you.
When I get my car back, I will decide.
Jack
12-15-2011, 12:25 AM
#19
"Hi,
I have not decided yet what to do with the top.
I had a sail maker here in Maine sew a new window in the old top with the frame still attached last year just before I went on my 48 state trip.
He did all of it by hand almost.
If I don't want it , I will be happy to give it to you.
When I get my car back, I will decide.
Jack"
Thanks Jack, that would be awesome. Just let me know at your convenience.
I can't seem to find anyone in my area willing to sew another one in so I'm just gonna do it myself.
I have not decided yet what to do with the top.
I had a sail maker here in Maine sew a new window in the old top with the frame still attached last year just before I went on my 48 state trip.
He did all of it by hand almost.
If I don't want it , I will be happy to give it to you.
When I get my car back, I will decide.
Jack"
Thanks Jack, that would be awesome. Just let me know at your convenience.
I can't seem to find anyone in my area willing to sew another one in so I'm just gonna do it myself.
12-20-2011, 08:13 AM
#20
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Haartz German Sonnaland Canvas
Old Top 30+ years
The back window is the first to go, and I have replaced it twice
The new top will look just like the old one, just new. It is double lined, and the stitching is perfect.
You can get the top at ( AutoBerry ) I believe they make a lot of the tops for vendors. The top was made in CA by this company,
They have all the patterns for different make of cars, and you just pick the style car and type of fabric you want.
It takes about a week for them to make it and send it to you.
I bought the high end fabric and it was $375 for the best.
$100 less for regular Haartz Softtop canvas $275 and about $175 for vinyl .
They do not sell pads or any hardware. Just the top.
I was impressed with the workmanship. If you do not need a vinyl top for judging, you will be very happy for a long time with this type of top.
Putting it up or down will not wrinkle it or hurt it.
Jack
Ps Autoberry site
Web site http://www.autoberry.com/
63-67 page
http://www.autoberry.com/details.php?products_id=220&
categories_id=
Last edited by Jackfit; 12-20-2011 at 08:16 AM.