AO Smith vs St Louis bodies
#1
AO Smith vs St Louis bodies
I was told by a NCRS judge that almost all 67' BB cars had bodies built in St Louis vs. the A. O. Smith Co. He said that if he sees a trim tag starting with AO he is suspicious as to the originality of the car. I want take a quick poll of all you 67' BB owners to see if his observation holds water. What does your trim tag say S or AO ??
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St. Jude Donor '09
Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (clearrun)
I had 2 Fully documented BB cars 65/396, 66/427 both had A.O. Smith bodies. Both were FULLY documented, both won Duntov awards. I was in another life an NCRS master judge. I have never heard that before, now I've been outta the loop for a # of years but IMHO what he told you was :bs
[Modified by skier, 10:01 AM 4/18/2002]
[Modified by skier, 10:01 AM 4/18/2002]
#4
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Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (clearrun)
I think it carries over to the tank sticker as well . There is a word DOW SMITH
on the top the tank stickers that are AO Smith. :cheers:
on the top the tank stickers that are AO Smith. :cheers:
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St. Jude Donor '09
Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (Daren Schneider)
I think it carries over to the tank sticker as well . There is a word DOW SMITH
on the top the tank stickers that are AO Smith. :cheers:
on the top the tank stickers that are AO Smith. :cheers:
#6
Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (clearrun)
I never heard that St. Louis made the Big Block bodies. I believe that fewer and fewer car bodies were built at AO Smith as the '67 model year went on. Both of my '67's are St. Louis bodies. My '66 BB coupe is AO Smith.
#8
Burning Brakes
Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (clearrun)
You should ask the NCRS judge to show you where in the judging manual it says that this is a problem. The NCRS judging standard is to judge by what is in the manual, and to judge the car as it was delivered from the factory.
I am not aware of any statement in the 1967 judging manual where it says there were no AO Smith BB cars.
Besides, if your car has any amount of reasonable documentation, or at least originality to it, that it came from AO Smith, then that should be sufficient.
An NCRS master judge told me that, in judging, if there is anything on the car that draws a judge's attention, fix it. My guess is, there's nothing on your car (evidence of a forged trim tag, a stamp pad that's been restamped, etc) that would give the judge a reason to question the authenticity of the car.
If he questions it simply on what he heard, that's no good. It has to be in the book (good luck getting something like this into the book, given the responses here).
- Jeff
PS I've never had my car judged, and I've never been to a judging school. But that will all change in the next two months, when I attend two schools and one regional meet. :D So, I could come out of it :crazy:
:chevy
I am not aware of any statement in the 1967 judging manual where it says there were no AO Smith BB cars.
Besides, if your car has any amount of reasonable documentation, or at least originality to it, that it came from AO Smith, then that should be sufficient.
An NCRS master judge told me that, in judging, if there is anything on the car that draws a judge's attention, fix it. My guess is, there's nothing on your car (evidence of a forged trim tag, a stamp pad that's been restamped, etc) that would give the judge a reason to question the authenticity of the car.
If he questions it simply on what he heard, that's no good. It has to be in the book (good luck getting something like this into the book, given the responses here).
- Jeff
PS I've never had my car judged, and I've never been to a judging school. But that will all change in the next two months, when I attend two schools and one regional meet. :D So, I could come out of it :crazy:
:chevy
#9
Melting Slicks
Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (boerio)
There is more info on this in the Adams book Vol.ll
Go to pg 384 for info on AO 67's. (and elsewhere for more body info)
I have never heard of engine size playing a role
in body manufacture? But do learn something new everyday.
67 was the last yr for AO and they were on strike for a while in late 66.? Maybe your NCRS buddy is mistaken?
AO had quality issues at one time, then a bit of competition
turned the 65-67 bodies into some of the best Corvettes to date.
Lots of info on this in various books, I just assume most everyone has the Adams book.
Go to pg 384 for info on AO 67's. (and elsewhere for more body info)
I have never heard of engine size playing a role
in body manufacture? But do learn something new everyday.
67 was the last yr for AO and they were on strike for a while in late 66.? Maybe your NCRS buddy is mistaken?
AO had quality issues at one time, then a bit of competition
turned the 65-67 bodies into some of the best Corvettes to date.
Lots of info on this in various books, I just assume most everyone has the Adams book.
#10
Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (396 RAT)
The suggestion that all 1967 Corvettes with 427 engines were buiilt with St. Louis bodies came from my book on 1963 to 1967s. During my research I found that the workers at AO Smith in Michigan had problems getting the hood stripe mask right. It was finally decided to use only St. Louis bodies with 427 engines, as designated by the hood stripe.
Further, early 1967s with 427s did not have a hood stripe and did not have the numbers "427" installed on the hood. This change- to hood stripes and emblems- occured about serial number 1,000.
While about 95 % of 1967s with 427s and a hood stripe will have a St. Louis body, there are some AO Smith 427 bodies out there. This is unusual because the 327 hood uses a right side hood support, while a 427 uses a left side hood support. There were not supposed to be any 427s with AO Smith bodies, but there are a few.
That's why the NCRS judge was wary about AO Smith bodies on 1967s with 427 engines- there are very few around! Look around and check it out for yourself.
-Noland Adams
Further, early 1967s with 427s did not have a hood stripe and did not have the numbers "427" installed on the hood. This change- to hood stripes and emblems- occured about serial number 1,000.
While about 95 % of 1967s with 427s and a hood stripe will have a St. Louis body, there are some AO Smith 427 bodies out there. This is unusual because the 327 hood uses a right side hood support, while a 427 uses a left side hood support. There were not supposed to be any 427s with AO Smith bodies, but there are a few.
That's why the NCRS judge was wary about AO Smith bodies on 1967s with 427 engines- there are very few around! Look around and check it out for yourself.
-Noland Adams
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#11
Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (nolandadams@d-web.com)
Welcome aboard Noland.
Thanks for your great book on body-lifting. I used it for my '67 project and found the plans and step-by-step lift instructions invaluable. :cheers:
Thanks for your great book on body-lifting. I used it for my '67 project and found the plans and step-by-step lift instructions invaluable. :cheers:
#12
Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (396 RAT)
I do not have Noland Adam's book. But after seeing his post below I am in the market for a copy right now. What is the exact title of his book on 63s to 67s? Can I buy it on line ?
#13
Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (clearrun)
I'm new to this list, and I didn't want to sound commercial, but I hope it's okay to answer this question. My book is called the Complete Corvette Restoration and Technical Guide Vol II, 1963 to 1967, and you can buy it from me, nolandadams@d-web.com
Thanks for asking,
Noland Adams
Thanks for asking,
Noland Adams
#14
Melting Slicks
Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (nolandadams@d-web.com)
Everyone here should own Nolands book.
It would answer a great many questions.
I look at it as the MidYr. Bible.
Hey Noland, check out my 396 filter cover post.
Not sure everyone here realizes yet what an asset having Noland here is.
:smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:
It would answer a great many questions.
I look at it as the MidYr. Bible.
Hey Noland, check out my 396 filter cover post.
Not sure everyone here realizes yet what an asset having Noland here is.
:smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:
#17
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Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (nolandadams@d-web.com)
Noland,
I'll join those in welcoming you to the Forum and add that I've found your Vol II an invaluable resource. I also bought a Vol I as an 'honorarium' for the friend
(a 62 owner) who painted my car for me. Although I haven't yet attempted a 'body-off', I've also got your body-lift/chassis dis-assembly workbook and video, which I find very helpful.
There was some discussion n the NCRS Boards a while back (perhaps as much as a year ago) about a "Vol III" dealng with the 'shark' models. Are you planning to produce one and if so, any ball-park estimate on a publication date? (I do appreciate that you're also busy writing the Corvette History books, model by model).
Thanks, and once again, welcome!
grant
I'll join those in welcoming you to the Forum and add that I've found your Vol II an invaluable resource. I also bought a Vol I as an 'honorarium' for the friend
(a 62 owner) who painted my car for me. Although I haven't yet attempted a 'body-off', I've also got your body-lift/chassis dis-assembly workbook and video, which I find very helpful.
There was some discussion n the NCRS Boards a while back (perhaps as much as a year ago) about a "Vol III" dealng with the 'shark' models. Are you planning to produce one and if so, any ball-park estimate on a publication date? (I do appreciate that you're also busy writing the Corvette History books, model by model).
Thanks, and once again, welcome!
grant
#18
Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (macnav)
Anyone besides me find it comical that under Noland's name it says, "Junior Member?" :lol: Seriously, his restoration books (I own Volume 1) are outstanding resources. Countless questions on this board (as well as ncrs.org )have been answered starting with the words, "According to Noland Adams' book . . ." Glad to have you here, Noland!
And now that I've stepped on my soap box, I'd like to add that we should ALL also own the AIM for our year, as well as the ST-12 for C1 owners. Trust me, you will eventually buy all of these books, so why not do it now, rather than guess at how your taillights are wired?
I ain't done yet! May I also suggest that everyone go ahead and pop for the $50 or so per year and subscribe to all three Corvette magazines: Corvette Fever, Vette, and Cars & Parts Corvette. For us C1 guys, recent articles include steering box rebuild, disk brakes upgrade, 700R4 transmission installation, seat upholstering, windshield install, hard top refurbishing and a bunch of stuff I can't remember at the moment. Sure, most issues turn out to be useless, but it only takes a couple articles in a year to make it worth it!
Okay, I feel better now! :)
- Mike Greene
And now that I've stepped on my soap box, I'd like to add that we should ALL also own the AIM for our year, as well as the ST-12 for C1 owners. Trust me, you will eventually buy all of these books, so why not do it now, rather than guess at how your taillights are wired?
I ain't done yet! May I also suggest that everyone go ahead and pop for the $50 or so per year and subscribe to all three Corvette magazines: Corvette Fever, Vette, and Cars & Parts Corvette. For us C1 guys, recent articles include steering box rebuild, disk brakes upgrade, 700R4 transmission installation, seat upholstering, windshield install, hard top refurbishing and a bunch of stuff I can't remember at the moment. Sure, most issues turn out to be useless, but it only takes a couple articles in a year to make it worth it!
Okay, I feel better now! :)
- Mike Greene
#19
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Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (nolandadams@d-web.com)
Welcome, Noland.
Man....Am I glad to see you participating in this Forum!!!!!!!!!! I hope you stay in touch with it. Your posts will zoom, as many, many questions in your arena will surface once again.....
Very, very :cool: :cool:
********************
********************
Jeff
Ô66. Modified L72
ÒThe Silver BeastÓ
Keep on :seeya :seeya :flag
Man....Am I glad to see you participating in this Forum!!!!!!!!!! I hope you stay in touch with it. Your posts will zoom, as many, many questions in your arena will surface once again.....
Very, very :cool: :cool:
********************
********************
Jeff
Ô66. Modified L72
ÒThe Silver BeastÓ
Keep on :seeya :seeya :flag
#20
Re: AO Smith vs St Louis bodies (macnav)
Grant,
Thanks for the comments on my Corvette Restoration Books. Those books took a total of 13 years to write and get published. There's a lot of research involved, so I've had enough. No Vol III for me.
However, the publisher is looking for an author or authors for a book covering 1968 to 1972 (or 1982). Interested? Send me some details.
Thanks,
Noland Adams
Thanks for the comments on my Corvette Restoration Books. Those books took a total of 13 years to write and get published. There's a lot of research involved, so I've had enough. No Vol III for me.
However, the publisher is looking for an author or authors for a book covering 1968 to 1972 (or 1982). Interested? Send me some details.
Thanks,
Noland Adams