How Do You Tell an original 427 Car?
02-18-2011, 05:02 PM
#1
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How Do You Tell an original 427 Car?
Looking at a 66 Vert with a NOM BB, car has 427 badges, but how can you tell if the car really came off the line with the 427?
02-18-2011, 05:36 PM
#2
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Radiator support, radiator, fanshroud, rear swaybar (only present on BB), tach redline (6500rpm) are a few.
Maybe you can post some more pictures of engine bay, instrument cluster and underside of car.
Ray
Maybe you can post some more pictures of engine bay, instrument cluster and underside of car.
Ray
02-18-2011, 06:06 PM
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If the rear end is original the code is different for a bb vs a sb
02-18-2011, 06:48 PM
#4
02-18-2011, 07:56 PM
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Can you post pictures of the fuel line as it branches off to the fuel pump, and of the radiator, core support, and inner fenders?
If the body has never been off the frame, the most telling piece of information is the fuel line.
If the body has never been off the frame, the most telling piece of information is the fuel line.
02-18-2011, 08:40 PM
#6
Race Director
It will have a rear sway bar that looks like this.
The fuel line will have a 90 deg bend at the fuel pump like this repro. A SB fuel line has about a 45 deg bend to it.
The throttle arm will look like this. A 327 arm at the top will generally leans forward to the front of the car.
Ignore the ignition resistor as it would not be on a 427 car with TI distributor.
The rear differential half shafts will be secured to the differential with caps in lieu of U-bolts.
My car is far from a NCRS correct restoration but you can pretty much rely on these 4 details to be present on an original BB car that still has most of it's original parts.
Dan
The fuel line will have a 90 deg bend at the fuel pump like this repro. A SB fuel line has about a 45 deg bend to it.
The throttle arm will look like this. A 327 arm at the top will generally leans forward to the front of the car.
Ignore the ignition resistor as it would not be on a 427 car with TI distributor.
The rear differential half shafts will be secured to the differential with caps in lieu of U-bolts.
My car is far from a NCRS correct restoration but you can pretty much rely on these 4 details to be present on an original BB car that still has most of it's original parts.
Dan
02-18-2011, 08:52 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Also battery on drivers side (AC cars also have this).
I believe the BB cars did not have an overflow tank...could be wrong on this though.
80 psi oil pressure gauge
I believe the BB cars did not have an overflow tank...could be wrong on this though.
80 psi oil pressure gauge
02-18-2011, 11:25 PM
#8
The 66 BB hood support is on the left fender and the small block is on the right fender. It is possible to change the location, but you should be able to tell the difference if it has been moved to the left finder as the support in the fender fiberglass will not be there. The Tach redline is different for the 390hp, 400hp, and 425hp. My 390hp redline starts with orange at 5200rpm and redlines at 5500rpm. The BB Oil Pressure gauge reads 80lbs rather than 60lbs. Not all BB came with the F41 rear sway bar. I am not sure if the half shafts were different or not, they may have been larger.
02-19-2011, 12:32 AM
#9
Le Mans Master
It will have a rear sway bar that looks like this.
The fuel line will have a 90 deg bend at the fuel pump like this repro. A SB fuel line has about a 45 deg bend to it.
The throttle arm will look like this. A 327 arm at the top will generally leans forward to the front of the car.
Ignore the ignition resistor as it would not be on a 427 car with TI distributor.
The rear differential half shafts will be secured to the differential with caps in lieu of U-bolts.
My car is far from a NCRS correct restoration but you can pretty much rely on these 4 details to be present on an original BB car that still has most of it's original parts.
Dan
The fuel line will have a 90 deg bend at the fuel pump like this repro. A SB fuel line has about a 45 deg bend to it.
The throttle arm will look like this. A 327 arm at the top will generally leans forward to the front of the car.
Ignore the ignition resistor as it would not be on a 427 car with TI distributor.
The rear differential half shafts will be secured to the differential with caps in lieu of U-bolts.
My car is far from a NCRS correct restoration but you can pretty much rely on these 4 details to be present on an original BB car that still has most of it's original parts.
Dan
NCRS or not. You are being extremely modest.
02-19-2011, 07:21 AM
#11
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All big block cars did have the rear sway bar.
02-19-2011, 02:20 PM
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Nope. Only the '65 396 had the battery on the driver's side. '66-'67 big-blocks had the battery on the passenger side, just like small-blocks (unless they had A/C).
Also, big-blocks had 7/8" front stabilizer bars (15/16" if they had F41); small-blocks were all 3/4".
Also, big-blocks had 7/8" front stabilizer bars (15/16" if they had F41); small-blocks were all 3/4".
02-19-2011, 04:48 PM
#13
Racer
66 Big Block
Here are some more...
7 leaf springs on the rear... small blocks had 9
Heavy duty front coil springs on front. 360 versus 300 lb.
Lower pulley for big block was unique- it was cast iron and unpainted
Alternator pulley on big block was larger
heavy duty copper radiator
Big Block spark plug heat (barrel) shield. They were plated.
Big Block ignition wires had grounding clip for spark plug barrel shield.
Cheers, Zale
7 leaf springs on the rear... small blocks had 9
Heavy duty front coil springs on front. 360 versus 300 lb.
Lower pulley for big block was unique- it was cast iron and unpainted
Alternator pulley on big block was larger
heavy duty copper radiator
Big Block spark plug heat (barrel) shield. They were plated.
Big Block ignition wires had grounding clip for spark plug barrel shield.
Cheers, Zale
02-19-2011, 04:55 PM
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02-19-2011, 06:42 PM
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Here's what I've got for now, should be able to get a few more on Monday.
02-19-2011, 06:57 PM
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Given the fact it admittedly has an NOM, it simply doesn't matter if the car came originally with a BB.
Why would you think a car with an incorrect engine in a body that used to have a big block is worth any more than a car with an incorrect engine in a body with a bunch of big block parts that may or may not have come with the car?
Why would you think a car with an incorrect engine in a body that used to have a big block is worth any more than a car with an incorrect engine in a body with a bunch of big block parts that may or may not have come with the car?
02-19-2011, 07:22 PM
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Given the fact it admittedly has an NOM, it simply doesn't matter if the car came originally with a BB.
Why would you think a car with an incorrect engine in a body that used to have a big block is worth any more than a car with an incorrect engine in a body with a bunch of big block parts that may or may not have come with the car?
Why would you think a car with an incorrect engine in a body that used to have a big block is worth any more than a car with an incorrect engine in a body with a bunch of big block parts that may or may not have come with the car?
That is a very good question. Not to sound sarcastic, perhaps you can give me some insight to the answer.
02-19-2011, 07:36 PM
#18
Race Director
Not too much really leaps out at me from the pictures to raise a lot of doubts. It looks like it may well be a BB car. Fuel line to carb is incorrect. Not sure about the intake as I would expect to see a thermostatic choke coil reservoir on a 66. It may be a 65 intake or something. Kind of looks like it has a copper oil gage line which is for a small block. BB had a steel line - but from the looks of it's fairly good condition, it has probably been replaced at some time. Instrument panel appears correct. I think I see the ignition resistor on the firewall so it has probably lost it's transistor distributor at some time. Radiator, fan, hood support, battery, etc look generally correct.
02-19-2011, 07:41 PM
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the top half of the motor is post 1968. what is the casting numbers on the block. and the picture is not clear but were is the carb throttle return spring connected too?
02-19-2011, 07:46 PM
#20
Race Director
I guess value is all in the mind of the buyer, but to me a car that originally was a BB car with a NOM BB motor, would have somewhat greater value than a SB car that had been made into a BB car - everything else being equal. An awful lot of these cars suffered misadventures and engine losses in their life. We have debated from time to time the % of BB cars that truly still have their original motors and a lot of members guess way down in the 10, 20 and 30% range. Taking the argument that a NOM car is a NOM car is a NOM car, it would be hard to rationalize paying any premium for a BB car knowing that advertised matching numbers and correct dated motor not withstanding - there is a high liklihood that it probably isn't original. Yet the market has obviously not accepted this.