*General Grand Sport Topic*
07-11-2014, 01:01 AM
#541
Burning Brakes
Ok, So here goes. Keep and open mind here. Most of you are going to first choke, then spew foam from your mouth and smoke will come out your ears when you see what I did to this 63' split window coupe. I'm surely going to catch a lot of heat from the purist who would never imagine doing this to a classic.
But.... This was once a piece of fiberglass shell sitting in some guys back yard with weeds growing through the missing floorboard. When people ask if I'm doing a frame-off restoration, I'm always confused...they must think there was a frame with my car. they assume there was an engine, transmission, suspension, wheels, dashboard, interior, steering wheel and column, doors, windows, fenders, front, back, firewall, electrical, seats.....something right.
Nope...not even a piece of trim. Just a piece of fiberglas with a birdcage that fit in the back of my Isuzu pick up truck. Yep! now some $60K-$80K and 20 years later...lost track, I have something that starts to resemble an automobile.
So, I was going to just build a Corvette hot rod, then started down the "origonal parts" path and darn near went crazy doing that. Then I decided to build the car that I wanted, not what everybody else told me to build. And something strange happened. I fell in love with my car again and actually enjoyed building it. Lets face it, my car is pieced together with parts from more than 100 other cars. It was never going to be an NCRS car. And yes, I'm going to drive the wheels off this car when its done. I just hope that none of the cars that I got parts from are possesed by demon spirits.
Here it is. It's called "Thin-Air" because that's what I built it out of.
Ken
But.... This was once a piece of fiberglass shell sitting in some guys back yard with weeds growing through the missing floorboard. When people ask if I'm doing a frame-off restoration, I'm always confused...they must think there was a frame with my car. they assume there was an engine, transmission, suspension, wheels, dashboard, interior, steering wheel and column, doors, windows, fenders, front, back, firewall, electrical, seats.....something right.
Nope...not even a piece of trim. Just a piece of fiberglas with a birdcage that fit in the back of my Isuzu pick up truck. Yep! now some $60K-$80K and 20 years later...lost track, I have something that starts to resemble an automobile.
So, I was going to just build a Corvette hot rod, then started down the "origonal parts" path and darn near went crazy doing that. Then I decided to build the car that I wanted, not what everybody else told me to build. And something strange happened. I fell in love with my car again and actually enjoyed building it. Lets face it, my car is pieced together with parts from more than 100 other cars. It was never going to be an NCRS car. And yes, I'm going to drive the wheels off this car when its done. I just hope that none of the cars that I got parts from are possesed by demon spirits.
Here it is. It's called "Thin-Air" because that's what I built it out of.
Ken
07-11-2014, 01:03 AM
#542
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two projects in one
Since mine will be a 63' Split Window GS, I'll be making a lot of customized changes not normal to either a production car or Grand Sport. It is based off of a production coupe with stock suspension. It's an origonal date code Corvette 250 hp motor with a Moon crossram intake and Camel Humped heads. The cam is stock and pretty much all else is stock. I'll be using the stock flip up headlights. Stock 63' interior seats, dash instruments center console. Doing all the glasswork myself...heck doing every little thing myself. Sometimes I just stare at it until I get the nerve to cut or weld onto it. The sanding is getting tiresome...uhg.
I have origonal 63' suspension. thinking about upgrading to disc brakes front and back, not sure what can of worms that may open. Thinking of putting front coil-over shocks in front to lower the front ride hight. But, havent found anyone selling a retro kit for that. Ride-Tech said thay were looking into it, but they are still a long way from having anything ready. Maybe drop spindles. Would love to swap out the tiny 20 gallon tank for a 36 gallon tank that fits inside behind the seats. This thing guzzles gas faster than a top fuel dragster.
Just some ideas floating around. Love to hear your thoughts.
While the body is off, it's like having two car projects at the same time. If I get bored with body work, I go work on engine or chassis jobs. The hard part is studying the photos and manuals and searching the web for what missing item goes where and what things are suppose to look like. Iv'e got several books on the Grand Sport, but non of them ever tell you the little secrests of what the parts look like with specific data a or measurements. That's what I'm hoping to get a little help here on the forum.
Here's another pict with the body off. I try to get out to the shop and work on it at least an hour each day, It's fun, and keeps me out of trouble.
California Ken
I have origonal 63' suspension. thinking about upgrading to disc brakes front and back, not sure what can of worms that may open. Thinking of putting front coil-over shocks in front to lower the front ride hight. But, havent found anyone selling a retro kit for that. Ride-Tech said thay were looking into it, but they are still a long way from having anything ready. Maybe drop spindles. Would love to swap out the tiny 20 gallon tank for a 36 gallon tank that fits inside behind the seats. This thing guzzles gas faster than a top fuel dragster.
Just some ideas floating around. Love to hear your thoughts.
While the body is off, it's like having two car projects at the same time. If I get bored with body work, I go work on engine or chassis jobs. The hard part is studying the photos and manuals and searching the web for what missing item goes where and what things are suppose to look like. Iv'e got several books on the Grand Sport, but non of them ever tell you the little secrests of what the parts look like with specific data a or measurements. That's what I'm hoping to get a little help here on the forum.
Here's another pict with the body off. I try to get out to the shop and work on it at least an hour each day, It's fun, and keeps me out of trouble.
California Ken
07-11-2014, 01:13 AM
#543
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Vintage Wheel Works
Hello Ken,
No, I have not been down to Rusty's for a while. I need to get down there soon, it's just down the hill from me. I will bring your wheel down there and let him measure it.
Keep in mind that he actually has the Phil Schidt's tooling that casted those wheels at his shop. But here is the problem......He's not ready to cast any new one piece wheels at this time. Very expensive start up cost. I have tried so hard to convince hime that there was a growing market for them, but he's just not ready. He has been doing a lot more bussiness with his two piece wheels.
So if anyone out there is truely interested in these wheels, then we are going to have to bann together and bring him enough orders to make it worth his time.
The other option.....someone needs to buy his tooling from him, seriously.
I will keep working on him as much as I can untill he issues a restraining order against me
No, I have not been down to Rusty's for a while. I need to get down there soon, it's just down the hill from me. I will bring your wheel down there and let him measure it.
Keep in mind that he actually has the Phil Schidt's tooling that casted those wheels at his shop. But here is the problem......He's not ready to cast any new one piece wheels at this time. Very expensive start up cost. I have tried so hard to convince hime that there was a growing market for them, but he's just not ready. He has been doing a lot more bussiness with his two piece wheels.
So if anyone out there is truely interested in these wheels, then we are going to have to bann together and bring him enough orders to make it worth his time.
The other option.....someone needs to buy his tooling from him, seriously.
I will keep working on him as much as I can untill he issues a restraining order against me
07-11-2014, 01:19 AM
#544
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Another option
Here's another option that Rusty offered to me.
Building a 17" two piece wheel witht the 15" pattern enstead of the current two piece that he offers now. He wanted to borrow my origonal hallibrand to make a pattern from. I just have'nt gone there yet.
His biggest concern is that he cannot offer a multitude of backspacing options on a one piece wheel and make any money at it. The choices would have to be limited to one or two specific offset sizes and no more.
Building a 17" two piece wheel witht the 15" pattern enstead of the current two piece that he offers now. He wanted to borrow my origonal hallibrand to make a pattern from. I just have'nt gone there yet.
His biggest concern is that he cannot offer a multitude of backspacing options on a one piece wheel and make any money at it. The choices would have to be limited to one or two specific offset sizes and no more.
07-11-2014, 09:33 AM
#545
Heel & Toe
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Ok, once apon a time this thread us to be about the Corvette Grand Sports. So, I have questions about Grand Sports and I'll start posting them to this tread. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
So my first question is about the fender grill cutouts. How long should they be? Below is a figure showing what I'm looking for, dimension "X".
Stole this pict from the interweb just for an example:
I've gone ahead and made them 8" long because I did not want to cut all the way back to the firewall. I'll be fabricating my own inserts so that's not an issue. But still like to know.
THX,
Ken
So my first question is about the fender grill cutouts. How long should they be? Below is a figure showing what I'm looking for, dimension "X".
Stole this pict from the interweb just for an example:
I've gone ahead and made them 8" long because I did not want to cut all the way back to the firewall. I'll be fabricating my own inserts so that's not an issue. But still like to know.
THX,
Ken
Hope these help. This is from a Real Grand Sport. Serial #004.
07-11-2014, 10:35 AM
#546
Race Director
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Do you know if those grill bars are original to #004 or are they replacements?
Jim
07-11-2014, 12:56 PM
#547
Burning Brakes
Hello Ken,
No, I have not been down to Rusty's for a while. I need to get down there soon, it's just down the hill from me. I will bring your wheel down there and let him measure it.
Keep in mind that he actually has the Phil Schidt's tooling that casted those wheels at his shop. But here is the problem......He's not ready to cast any new one piece wheels at this time. Very expensive start up cost. I have tried so hard to convince hime that there was a growing market for them, but he's just not ready. He has been doing a lot more bussiness with his two piece wheels.
So if anyone out there is truely interested in these wheels, then we are going to have to bann together and bring him enough orders to make it worth his time.
The other option.....someone needs to buy his tooling from him, seriously.
I will keep working on him as much as I can untill he issues a restraining order against me
No, I have not been down to Rusty's for a while. I need to get down there soon, it's just down the hill from me. I will bring your wheel down there and let him measure it.
Keep in mind that he actually has the Phil Schidt's tooling that casted those wheels at his shop. But here is the problem......He's not ready to cast any new one piece wheels at this time. Very expensive start up cost. I have tried so hard to convince hime that there was a growing market for them, but he's just not ready. He has been doing a lot more bussiness with his two piece wheels.
So if anyone out there is truely interested in these wheels, then we are going to have to bann together and bring him enough orders to make it worth his time.
The other option.....someone needs to buy his tooling from him, seriously.
I will keep working on him as much as I can untill he issues a restraining order against me
Ken when PSE made the 15'' one piece GS wheels they made a 15 x 8 with a 4'' bs for the fronts a 15 x 10 with a 4'' bs for the rear and a 15 x10 with a 6'' bs for the rears. Phil also offered both bolt on and k/o versions . I sold you the 15 x10 with a 4'' bs bolt ons.
What Rusty should consider is a 15'' two piece wheel for the GS. The biggest concern is will the inside barrel diameter of his two piece wheels fit over the C-4 brakes. If his barrel is the same ID as Phils then no problem. It will clear a C-4 caliper with some minor filing on the ribbing on the caliper. Rusty can cast one center and machine it to either bolt on or k/o versions and offer different widths with the barrels he already has. He can also offer different back spacings with this design. Depending on whose C-4 suspension you use early or late and either stock width or narrowed the back spacing becomes critical in how the wheel/tire combo looks in the wheelhouse. The one piece design like Phil had is nice but too limited in it's potential market for GS wheels. Right now there is no source for 15'' GS replica wheels and I know some GS manufacturers are looking for a source. ------ Ken
07-14-2014, 02:20 PM
#548
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In another CF thread, the subject is how to use a big block radiator with a small block engine. The issue is how to keep from having to use universal fit, accordion radiator hoses.
I solved the hose problem when I ran this combination early on with my #80 Grand Sport. And for what it's worth, an aluminum BB radiator works extremely well with a small block. One particular track day, outside temperature was 108F, but engine temperature was rock solid at 160F (thermostat temperature) all day long. (At the end of the day I was a melted mess, though.)
Just in case any other GS person wants to try a similar configuration, here is a link to that thread. Posts #6, #8, #12 and #13 are the most relevant. Hose part numbers are included.
Hoses for BB radiator and SB engine
Jim
I solved the hose problem when I ran this combination early on with my #80 Grand Sport. And for what it's worth, an aluminum BB radiator works extremely well with a small block. One particular track day, outside temperature was 108F, but engine temperature was rock solid at 160F (thermostat temperature) all day long. (At the end of the day I was a melted mess, though.)
Just in case any other GS person wants to try a similar configuration, here is a link to that thread. Posts #6, #8, #12 and #13 are the most relevant. Hose part numbers are included.
Hoses for BB radiator and SB engine
Jim
07-14-2014, 02:30 PM
#549
Le Mans Master
Great story I really hope you are keeping the front park/turn signals and the front headlight buckets as they are original
I really hope you are keeping the front park/turn signals and the front headlight buckets as they are original Ok, So here goes. Keep and open mind here. Most of you are going to first choke, then spew foam from your mouth and smoke will come out your ears when you see what I did to this 63' split window coupe. I'm surely going to catch a lot of heat from the purist who would never imagine doing this to a classic.
But.... This was once a piece of fiberglass shell sitting in some guys back yard with weeds growing through the missing floorboard. When people ask if I'm doing a frame-off restoration, I'm always confused...they must think there was a frame with my car. they assume there was an engine, transmission, suspension, wheels, dashboard, interior, steering wheel and column, doors, windows, fenders, front, back, firewall, electrical, seats.....something right.
Nope...not even a piece of trim. Just a piece of fiberglas with a birdcage that fit in the back of my Isuzu pick up truck. Yep! now some $60K-$80K and 20 years later...lost track, I have something that starts to resemble an automobile.
So, I was going to just build a Corvette hot rod, then started down the "origonal parts" path and darn near went crazy doing that. Then I decided to build the car that I wanted, not what everybody else told me to build. And something strange happened. I fell in love with my car again and actually enjoyed building it. Lets face it, my car is pieced together with parts from more than 100 other cars. It was never going to be an NCRS car. And yes, I'm going to drive the wheels off this car when its done. I just hope that none of the cars that I got parts from are possesed by demon spirits.
Here it is. It's called "Thin-Air" because that's what I built it out of.
Ken
But.... This was once a piece of fiberglass shell sitting in some guys back yard with weeds growing through the missing floorboard. When people ask if I'm doing a frame-off restoration, I'm always confused...they must think there was a frame with my car. they assume there was an engine, transmission, suspension, wheels, dashboard, interior, steering wheel and column, doors, windows, fenders, front, back, firewall, electrical, seats.....something right.
Nope...not even a piece of trim. Just a piece of fiberglas with a birdcage that fit in the back of my Isuzu pick up truck. Yep! now some $60K-$80K and 20 years later...lost track, I have something that starts to resemble an automobile.
So, I was going to just build a Corvette hot rod, then started down the "origonal parts" path and darn near went crazy doing that. Then I decided to build the car that I wanted, not what everybody else told me to build. And something strange happened. I fell in love with my car again and actually enjoyed building it. Lets face it, my car is pieced together with parts from more than 100 other cars. It was never going to be an NCRS car. And yes, I'm going to drive the wheels off this car when its done. I just hope that none of the cars that I got parts from are possesed by demon spirits.
Here it is. It's called "Thin-Air" because that's what I built it out of.
Ken
Last edited by TheSaint; 07-14-2014 at 03:25 PM.
07-14-2014, 05:13 PM
#550
Melting Slicks
In another CF thread, the subject is how to use a big block radiator with a small block engine. The issue is how to keep from having to use universal fit, accordion radiator hoses.
I solved the hose problem when I ran this combination early on with my #80 Grand Sport. And for what it's worth, an aluminum BB radiator works extremely well with a small block. One particular track day, outside temperature was 108F, but engine temperature was rock solid at 160F (thermostat temperature) all day long. (At the end of the day I was a melted mess, though.)
Just in case any other GS person wants to try a similar configuration, here is a link to that thread. Posts #6, #8, #12 and #13 are the most relevant. Hose part numbers are included.
Hoses for BB radiator and SB engine
Jim
I solved the hose problem when I ran this combination early on with my #80 Grand Sport. And for what it's worth, an aluminum BB radiator works extremely well with a small block. One particular track day, outside temperature was 108F, but engine temperature was rock solid at 160F (thermostat temperature) all day long. (At the end of the day I was a melted mess, though.)
Just in case any other GS person wants to try a similar configuration, here is a link to that thread. Posts #6, #8, #12 and #13 are the most relevant. Hose part numbers are included.
Hoses for BB radiator and SB engine
Jim
07-14-2014, 09:54 PM
#551
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GS Wheels
Hello Ken,
To sumarize for all interested in GS wheels, Rusty Conrad owns Vintage Wheel Works in La Habra, Calif in Los Angeles. He owns all of P.S.E tooling and what ever was left of Phil's stock, which I was told was not much. Rusty is a little gun shy on starting production on the one piece unless he knows he has the orders to handle the start up cost. He was open to the idea of building a two piece which as Ken has said would open the door fo all back spacing options. Rusty asked me to borrow one of my Halibrands to examine and build the pattern off. I'm willing to give that a try, so I'll be reaching out him again soon.
I have drum brakes, so not that familiar with the size of the disc calipers for either early or late model corvettes. But, I can show him the Aluminum wheels that Ken sold me that will tell us the minimum inner diameter of the "Barrel" section. I assume anything larger in diameter would be better for brake clearances.
I'll Keep pursueing this topic and let everyone on the forum know what I learn.
And if anyone wants to call Rusty at Vintage Wheel Works, Please do and let him know that people are looking for these wheels.
Cali-Ken
To sumarize for all interested in GS wheels, Rusty Conrad owns Vintage Wheel Works in La Habra, Calif in Los Angeles. He owns all of P.S.E tooling and what ever was left of Phil's stock, which I was told was not much. Rusty is a little gun shy on starting production on the one piece unless he knows he has the orders to handle the start up cost. He was open to the idea of building a two piece which as Ken has said would open the door fo all back spacing options. Rusty asked me to borrow one of my Halibrands to examine and build the pattern off. I'm willing to give that a try, so I'll be reaching out him again soon.
I have drum brakes, so not that familiar with the size of the disc calipers for either early or late model corvettes. But, I can show him the Aluminum wheels that Ken sold me that will tell us the minimum inner diameter of the "Barrel" section. I assume anything larger in diameter would be better for brake clearances.
I'll Keep pursueing this topic and let everyone on the forum know what I learn.
And if anyone wants to call Rusty at Vintage Wheel Works, Please do and let him know that people are looking for these wheels.
Cali-Ken
07-14-2014, 10:33 PM
#553
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63' gssr
Thanks for the nice words from "TheSaint". Yes! I am keeping the origonal flip-up headlights and the turn signals/parking lights. I had to do a lot of grafting to get those fenders to blend into the front parking light area. Lets just say the fenders are from Duntov-Motors and they do not just jump out of the box and onto your car. Lots of cuttig grinding, bonding, glassing followed by even more cutting and grinding and glassing and filling.
I am retaining everything I can that is origonal 63' SWC and blending in the GS styling. I know I'm not going to try and fool anyone, but I want it to have both the styles I love. With luck and a lot of help from all the forum members giving me much needed data and measurements, I can merge the two styles into one seamless representation. I guess you could call it a 63' Corvette GSSR, Grand-Sport-Sting-Ray.
more pics to come
Ken
I am retaining everything I can that is origonal 63' SWC and blending in the GS styling. I know I'm not going to try and fool anyone, but I want it to have both the styles I love. With luck and a lot of help from all the forum members giving me much needed data and measurements, I can merge the two styles into one seamless representation. I guess you could call it a 63' Corvette GSSR, Grand-Sport-Sting-Ray.
more pics to come
Ken
07-14-2014, 10:42 PM
#555
Burning Brakes
Hello Ken,
To sumarize for all interested in GS wheels, Rusty Conrad owns Vintage Wheel Works in La Habra, Calif in Los Angeles. He owns all of P.S.E tooling and what ever was left of Phil's stock, which I was told was not much. Rusty is a little gun shy on starting production on the one piece unless he knows he has the orders to handle the start up cost. He was open to the idea of building a two piece which as Ken has said would open the door fo all back spacing options. Rusty asked me to borrow one of my Halibrands to examine and build the pattern off. I'm willing to give that a try, so I'll be reaching out him again soon.
I have drum brakes, so not that familiar with the size of the disc calipers for either early or late model corvettes. But, I can show him the Aluminum wheels that Ken sold me that will tell us the minimum inner diameter of the "Barrel" section. I assume anything larger in diameter would be better for brake clearances.
I'll Keep pursueing this topic and let everyone on the forum know what I learn.
And if anyone wants to call Rusty at Vintage Wheel Works, Please do and let him know that people are looking for these wheels.
Cali-Ken
To sumarize for all interested in GS wheels, Rusty Conrad owns Vintage Wheel Works in La Habra, Calif in Los Angeles. He owns all of P.S.E tooling and what ever was left of Phil's stock, which I was told was not much. Rusty is a little gun shy on starting production on the one piece unless he knows he has the orders to handle the start up cost. He was open to the idea of building a two piece which as Ken has said would open the door fo all back spacing options. Rusty asked me to borrow one of my Halibrands to examine and build the pattern off. I'm willing to give that a try, so I'll be reaching out him again soon.
I have drum brakes, so not that familiar with the size of the disc calipers for either early or late model corvettes. But, I can show him the Aluminum wheels that Ken sold me that will tell us the minimum inner diameter of the "Barrel" section. I assume anything larger in diameter would be better for brake clearances.
I'll Keep pursueing this topic and let everyone on the forum know what I learn.
And if anyone wants to call Rusty at Vintage Wheel Works, Please do and let him know that people are looking for these wheels.
Cali-Ken
Last edited by keystonefarm; 07-14-2014 at 10:45 PM.
07-14-2014, 10:55 PM
#556
Burning Brakes
07-15-2014, 04:06 AM
#557
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Grand Sport book
I purchased this book recently all about the early years of the Grand Sport. It was expensive, but a really great book filled with tons of photos. Definately recommend it.
If anyone knows of another one as good, please let us know.
Looking through this book you'll find that the five Grand Sports were constantly being changed and repainted. Even looking at the book it is hard to follow the chronological changes that each car underwent. You'de be fooled to think there were twenty Grand Sports. If anyone has more insight as to how each car was built, order of racing appearances, paint schemes and repainted schemes, then it would be awesome to put it into order.
I found that this book is not much for technical data. We need a Noland Adams version. Collectively those with intimate knowledge of the cars and those who own them could lend photos and technical data onto the forum. Whatta ya think?
If anyone knows of another one as good, please let us know.
Looking through this book you'll find that the five Grand Sports were constantly being changed and repainted. Even looking at the book it is hard to follow the chronological changes that each car underwent. You'de be fooled to think there were twenty Grand Sports. If anyone has more insight as to how each car was built, order of racing appearances, paint schemes and repainted schemes, then it would be awesome to put it into order.
I found that this book is not much for technical data. We need a Noland Adams version. Collectively those with intimate knowledge of the cars and those who own them could lend photos and technical data onto the forum. Whatta ya think?
07-18-2014, 05:26 AM
#558
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Max front tire size and lwering the front stance.
I'm going to Reno' HAN next week and looking to buy a pair of front tires at Summit, haven't settled on a brand. I'm wondering what the largest tire I can run in the front would be. Front wheel is 15"x 8.5" 4" back space. I think my biggest challenge is rubbing against the front pipe on my Hooker Headers when turned full left. I'm thinking nothing larger than 27" tall. Maybe Hoosier 275-60-15's.
Fender clearance does not seem to be a problem. The nose sits too high already.... which leads me to another question......anyone ever use drop spindles to lower the front stance? I've got miles between my fenders and the top of the tires. Thought about switching to Coil overs, but don't know of anyone who makes them for a Corvette mid-year. Cutting the coils is my last resort and rather not.
Open to ideas... Ken
Fender clearance does not seem to be a problem. The nose sits too high already.... which leads me to another question......anyone ever use drop spindles to lower the front stance? I've got miles between my fenders and the top of the tires. Thought about switching to Coil overs, but don't know of anyone who makes them for a Corvette mid-year. Cutting the coils is my last resort and rather not.
Open to ideas... Ken
07-21-2014, 02:52 PM
#559
Heel & Toe
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