MSD coil was the root of engine mis-firing.
11-07-2010, 01:55 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
MSD coil was the root of engine mis-firing.
A couple of weeks ago I posted a thread that the engine in our 59 had developed a rather severe but random misfire. Miss was at all rpm/load ranges, but particularly noticeable at cruising on the freeway as a somewhat surge/stutter. Also at idle it did not like to run well, so required just a bit of gas pedal to keep it from feeling as though it wanted to stall,,,which then caused the exhaust to sound somewhat as a AA Fueler pulling to the line.
Felt like an ignition problem, in particular as though a plug or 2 was fouled. Pulled all the plugs and all looked ok. The thread was more about a special tool to remove plugs that are locked in and impossible to remove because of header interference.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...post1575852224
Checked fuel system, (filter, bad gas, fuel pump pressure). All was well. Still strongly believed it was ignition. Called MSD regarding the possibility that may be them, in particular their coil (which I had just replaced some 6 months earlier because of it had leaked all of its oil).
MSD techs said that could be because I had the coil mounted sideways (flat)??? not vertical,,,,they said that sideways could cause the oil to pool on one side of the coil??? Suggested ignition switch, which caused me to do a test with a jumper wire directly from battery positive to coil positive. Did not help. Also what did not help troubleshooting was that the problem would clear itself for periods of time,,,perhaps a few miles.
I told MSD that I felt strongly that it was either the coil or their distributor and as the coil was under warranty, how to get a replacement. They told me to ship it to them, they would test it, and if bad send a new one. They however were quite firm that as it was a newer coil, that this was likely not the problem,,,which then sent me to a couple of wild goose chases, but in my mind I still felt it was an ignition stutter and not a fuel running out of gas problem, or vacuum leak problem (but symptoms were similar in the general roughness of the engine).
As I didn't want to lay the car up for a few weeks, I ordered up a new one from Summit, about 50 bucks or so. Installed it this morning.
Engine is now performing perfectly, in fact better than ever. I had always felt that something was a bit off in its performance at times. Now suspect that the coil that I'd installed 6 months ago was always marginal and finally become intolerable.
So this is 3 MSD coils in 18 months. Anyone else noted any such problems? If you have any mysterious problems, perhaps checking your coil would be a good place to look.
I'll be sending 2 bad coils back to MSD for their assessment.
In 40 plus years of troubleshooting problems, I think that this is very first time that I ever replaced a coil that it turn out to be the problem. Replaced a couple where it did not fix a problem that I was experiencing however.
Felt like an ignition problem, in particular as though a plug or 2 was fouled. Pulled all the plugs and all looked ok. The thread was more about a special tool to remove plugs that are locked in and impossible to remove because of header interference.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...post1575852224
Checked fuel system, (filter, bad gas, fuel pump pressure). All was well. Still strongly believed it was ignition. Called MSD regarding the possibility that may be them, in particular their coil (which I had just replaced some 6 months earlier because of it had leaked all of its oil).
MSD techs said that could be because I had the coil mounted sideways (flat)??? not vertical,,,,they said that sideways could cause the oil to pool on one side of the coil??? Suggested ignition switch, which caused me to do a test with a jumper wire directly from battery positive to coil positive. Did not help. Also what did not help troubleshooting was that the problem would clear itself for periods of time,,,perhaps a few miles.
I told MSD that I felt strongly that it was either the coil or their distributor and as the coil was under warranty, how to get a replacement. They told me to ship it to them, they would test it, and if bad send a new one. They however were quite firm that as it was a newer coil, that this was likely not the problem,,,which then sent me to a couple of wild goose chases, but in my mind I still felt it was an ignition stutter and not a fuel running out of gas problem, or vacuum leak problem (but symptoms were similar in the general roughness of the engine).
As I didn't want to lay the car up for a few weeks, I ordered up a new one from Summit, about 50 bucks or so. Installed it this morning.
Engine is now performing perfectly, in fact better than ever. I had always felt that something was a bit off in its performance at times. Now suspect that the coil that I'd installed 6 months ago was always marginal and finally become intolerable.
So this is 3 MSD coils in 18 months. Anyone else noted any such problems? If you have any mysterious problems, perhaps checking your coil would be a good place to look.
I'll be sending 2 bad coils back to MSD for their assessment.
In 40 plus years of troubleshooting problems, I think that this is very first time that I ever replaced a coil that it turn out to be the problem. Replaced a couple where it did not fix a problem that I was experiencing however.
11-07-2010, 10:56 AM
#2
Racer
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Hmmm, funny you mention this - I was at a car show 200 miles from home with my friend in his 55 Chevy when it stopped on the side of the road. Troubleshooting got us to a bad MSD coil - only it was 10:00 at night and no way to order a summits part - well - a lady was walking by and asked if we needed help - come to find out, she was the manager of the local O'Reilly's Auto Parts store - got in her truck - drove to the store and got us a new coil and only charged us wholesale for the part 
- what a great person she is (we wrote a letter to the corporate office letting them know this!) - This gets me thinking that there must be some design defect with these parts - makes me want to change the one out of my vette (or carry a spare!)...
- what a great person she is (we wrote a letter to the corporate office letting them know this!) - This gets me thinking that there must be some design defect with these parts - makes me want to change the one out of my vette (or carry a spare!)...
11-07-2010, 02:26 PM
#3
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I've noted a surge in posts on other performance boards in the last couple of months on MSD coil failures; seems to be a disease, along with internal corrosion-related failures in MSD distributors. Wonder how much of that stuff is made in China now? 
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11-07-2010, 03:14 PM
#4
Racer
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Hmmm, funny you mention this - I was at a car show 200 miles from home with my friend in his 55 Chevy when it stopped on the side of the road. Troubleshooting got us to a bad MSD coil - only it was 10:00 at night and no way to order a summits part - well - a lady was walking by and asked if we needed help - come to find out, she was the manager of the local O'Reilly's Auto Parts store - got in her truck - drove to the store and got us a new coil and only charged us wholesale for the part - what a great person she is (we wrote a letter to the corporate office letting them know this!) - This gets me thinking that there must be some design defect with these parts - makes me want to change the one out of my vette (or carry a spare!)...
- what a great person she is (we wrote a letter to the corporate office letting them know this!) - This gets me thinking that there must be some design defect with these parts - makes me want to change the one out of my vette (or carry a spare!)...Last edited by Easy Rider 1; 11-07-2010 at 03:44 PM.
11-07-2010, 04:02 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2003
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2019 Corvette of the Year Winner
St. Jude Donor '15
I have an Accel coil and it is mounted flat inside the car. Has been more than 4 years now....so far knock on wood, no problems. I have all Accel spark control from the Accel Gen 7 ECM to the distributor and even the wires.....
11-07-2010, 05:33 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
however, every winter during storage, i pull the cap and clean the corrosion in the dist .....it does seem to build up even on the older units....
11-07-2010, 05:44 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
I have had 2 flamethrower coils literally bust open . One was oil filled the other was solid. I had an Accel coil trash out too.All proper for my Pertronix II ign system. The GM coil is the only one that hasn't blown.
11-07-2010, 05:54 PM
#9
Race Director
11-07-2010, 08:24 PM
#12
Racer
11-07-2010, 08:36 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
I had a similar problem with my Pertronix III ignitor coil about a month ago; fouled the plugs and I barely made it home. Hats off to the people at Pertronix, though. The unit was out of warranty and they still stood behind it and replaced it, no charge. I am now holding my breath that this one lasts for a while! 
John
I am now holding my breath that this one lasts for a while! John
11-07-2010, 08:50 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
One factor that affects coil life is heat..try to mount them away from hot exhaust.
Another is how wide the spark plug gaps are set. A wide gap stresses the coil more (it is always putting out max voltage) and can shorten coil life. But you would assume a quality part would hold up anyway!!
Another is how wide the spark plug gaps are set. A wide gap stresses the coil more (it is always putting out max voltage) and can shorten coil life. But you would assume a quality part would hold up anyway!!
11-07-2010, 09:03 PM
#15
Pro
Thread Starter
MSD Blaster 2. As a dummy, I had thrown the oil leaker away. Normally never pitch anything.
As an aside, the Tech Support at MSD was apparently manned by a gas pump jockey reading from a script. This was a complete waste of time call.
Dummy that I am, the years MSD has been around and advertising in all my magizines, the years of giving the appearance that they hang around real high performance automobile guys and racing, I guess that I expected more.
But no, Lucy pulled the football on me again as I did waste a bit of time looking for other problems, replaced the spark plugs, paid almost 50 bucks for a special headers spark plug socket. This all on the assertion from the "tech" that it couldn't be an MSD coil problem. Now I'm kicking myself for buying another MSD unit instead of a Mallory or Accel,,,of course not knowing if they are any better.
Just as someone earlier suggested, I just took a look at the pretty packaging. In really small letters "Made In China".
As an aside, the Tech Support at MSD was apparently manned by a gas pump jockey reading from a script. This was a complete waste of time call.
Dummy that I am, the years MSD has been around and advertising in all my magizines, the years of giving the appearance that they hang around real high performance automobile guys and racing, I guess that I expected more.
But no, Lucy pulled the football on me again as I did waste a bit of time looking for other problems, replaced the spark plugs, paid almost 50 bucks for a special headers spark plug socket. This all on the assertion from the "tech" that it couldn't be an MSD coil problem. Now I'm kicking myself for buying another MSD unit instead of a Mallory or Accel,,,of course not knowing if they are any better.
Just as someone earlier suggested, I just took a look at the pretty packaging. In really small letters "Made In China".
11-07-2010, 09:13 PM
#16
Pro
Thread Starter
Naw, I've had horizontal mounted coils for years. If this was truly a fact of their life, they should tell you this in their so called installation instructions.
Vertical does not work for me anyway because of air cleaner interference and worse yet wiring is exactly length'd for horizontal mount.
Plugs are gapped at .40 as recommended and coil is center of intake, next to distributor.. Just as the 30 year old coil is in my 71.
Vertical does not work for me anyway because of air cleaner interference and worse yet wiring is exactly length'd for horizontal mount.
Plugs are gapped at .40 as recommended and coil is center of intake, next to distributor.. Just as the 30 year old coil is in my 71.
11-08-2010, 01:42 PM
#17
Pro
Thread Starter
Called MSD Tech today. Explained problem and solution. I got a virtual shrug of the shoulders and a gaze at the sky and switched to a sales clerk named Hope. She did not know what to do for me to get warranty support for the bad coil except to tell me to send it back, they would test it and if defective send me another coil. I suggested that I did not need another coil as I had just bought one and this was how I knew that I had a bad one.
She said would have supervisor call me. She then called back a few minutes later and gave me choices.
1. Send coil back and they would send me MSD clothing,,,I don't need another coil. They will not refund money.
2. Or I could have merchandise of equal value.
3. Take it back to merchant where purchased. Have them call MSD for approval to refund money. If they are willing to do this, and it's up to their option, then MSD will reimburse the merchant. Likely will not even waste the time to do this.
She said would have supervisor call me. She then called back a few minutes later and gave me choices.
1. Send coil back and they would send me MSD clothing,,,I don't need another coil. They will not refund money.
2. Or I could have merchandise of equal value.
3. Take it back to merchant where purchased. Have them call MSD for approval to refund money. If they are willing to do this, and it's up to their option, then MSD will reimburse the merchant. Likely will not even waste the time to do this.
11-08-2010, 02:21 PM
#18
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Called MSD Tech today. Explained problem and solution. I got a virtual shrug of the shoulders and a gaze at the sky and switched to a sales clerk named Hope. She did not know what to do for me to get warranty support for the bad coil except to tell me to send it back, they would test it and if defective send me another coil. I suggested that I did not need another coil as I had just bought one and this was how I knew that I had a bad one.
She said would have supervisor call me. She then called back a few minutes later and gave me choices.
1. Send coil back and they would send me MSD clothing,,,I don't need another coil. They will not refund money.
2. Or I could have merchandise of equal value.
3. Take it back to merchant where purchased. Have them call MSD for approval to refund money. If they are willing to do this, and it's up to their option, then MSD will reimburse the merchant. Likely will not even waste the time to do this.
She said would have supervisor call me. She then called back a few minutes later and gave me choices.
1. Send coil back and they would send me MSD clothing,,,I don't need another coil. They will not refund money.
2. Or I could have merchandise of equal value.
3. Take it back to merchant where purchased. Have them call MSD for approval to refund money. If they are willing to do this, and it's up to their option, then MSD will reimburse the merchant. Likely will not even waste the time to do this.
11-08-2010, 03:47 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
Hmmm...This is not making me feel good...
I just bought a complete MSD system with the coil to replace my 10+ years old Jacobs (before they became part of Accel) system that I am blaming for a problem similar to the original posters. Pretty much I have checked everything I can think of and a previous motor from which I moved the Jacobs also had similar issues (but was a bit tired and I blamed other things.)
I planned to mount the coil sideways as well...though first I have to figure out how and where to mount the control box. Original plan to just replace the Jacobs unit which was all fitted when I put the motor in won't work since the new MSD is substantially larger and has wires running from both ends.
I guess I will go ahead and try it since I have it but it would have been nice to feel like the problem would be fixed...now if it persists I have to decide if the new MSD is just failing or there is some other issue.
I just bought a complete MSD system with the coil to replace my 10+ years old Jacobs (before they became part of Accel) system that I am blaming for a problem similar to the original posters. Pretty much I have checked everything I can think of and a previous motor from which I moved the Jacobs also had similar issues (but was a bit tired and I blamed other things.)
I planned to mount the coil sideways as well...though first I have to figure out how and where to mount the control box. Original plan to just replace the Jacobs unit which was all fitted when I put the motor in won't work since the new MSD is substantially larger and has wires running from both ends.
I guess I will go ahead and try it since I have it but it would have been nice to feel like the problem would be fixed...now if it persists I have to decide if the new MSD is just failing or there is some other issue.
11-08-2010, 05:01 PM
#20
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Hmmm...This is not making me feel good...
I just bought a complete MSD system with the coil to replace my 10+ years old Jacobs (before they became part of Accel) system that I am blaming for a problem similar to the original posters. Pretty much I have checked everything I can think of and a previous motor from which I moved the Jacobs also had similar issues (but was a bit tired and I blamed other things.)
I planned to mount the coil sideways as well...though first I have to figure out how and where to mount the control box. Original plan to just replace the Jacobs unit which was all fitted when I put the motor in won't work since the new MSD is substantially larger and has wires running from both ends.
I guess I will go ahead and try it since I have it but it would have been nice to feel like the problem would be fixed...now if it persists I have to decide if the new MSD is just failing or there is some other issue.
I just bought a complete MSD system with the coil to replace my 10+ years old Jacobs (before they became part of Accel) system that I am blaming for a problem similar to the original posters. Pretty much I have checked everything I can think of and a previous motor from which I moved the Jacobs also had similar issues (but was a bit tired and I blamed other things.)
I planned to mount the coil sideways as well...though first I have to figure out how and where to mount the control box. Original plan to just replace the Jacobs unit which was all fitted when I put the motor in won't work since the new MSD is substantially larger and has wires running from both ends.
I guess I will go ahead and try it since I have it but it would have been nice to feel like the problem would be fixed...now if it persists I have to decide if the new MSD is just failing or there is some other issue.