Leaving NCRS
08-25-2010, 02:40 PM
#121
Safety Car
Here's an exact quote from the Sixth Edition of the JRM: ".....................owners prematurely removing cars from the judging field will nullify any award received and result in a 13 month suspension of the owner from any NCRS judging process".
Roy's complaint is NOT about the suspension, but about being banned from the Technical Discussion Board.
Is participation in the Discussion Board a part of the "judging process". OKAY, some nit picker, lawyer type will say that it is, if you are responding to a question. But how about lurking. Just being able to log on and watch. Roy cannot do this as his logon is locked out. Same as any non-dues paying non-members.
Was the wording changed or updated in the latest edition? Somebody please explain. I agree with the "rules are rules" mentality, but in Roy's case, it seems that they went beyond "throwing the book at him".
Roy's complaint is NOT about the suspension, but about being banned from the Technical Discussion Board.
Is participation in the Discussion Board a part of the "judging process". OKAY, some nit picker, lawyer type will say that it is, if you are responding to a question. But how about lurking. Just being able to log on and watch. Roy cannot do this as his logon is locked out. Same as any non-dues paying non-members.
Was the wording changed or updated in the latest edition? Somebody please explain. I agree with the "rules are rules" mentality, but in Roy's case, it seems that they went beyond "throwing the book at him".
Last edited by 65tripleblack; 08-25-2010 at 07:17 PM. Reason: add highlight
08-25-2010, 02:58 PM
#122
Racer
Member Since: Jul 2009
Location: Covington Louisiana
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St. Jude Donor '10
NCRS bashing again? Hmmm.
It's not a car club. If you need to be stroked go to the local massage parlor.
I for one am glad to be a member. If it wasn't for this watch dog group there would be a million "original" mid year big block rare black with red stinger fully loaded Vettes floating around. If originality is your passion then join up. If you don't give a rats *** about originality then stay away. But don't come on here and unload on them just because you don't want overspray or certain head bolt markings or whatever. I find the people who bash the NCRS and say they are too **** are the same ones who don't want to put the time or effort into their cars to make them "correct." That's fine if they don't want to do it. Just don't ask the NCRS to dumb down the criteria so your car might get a few more points for being wrong.
Rules are rules and Roy left. He knew the rules on the way out. Just because what's her name gets away with just a few days in jail and a couple weeks in rehab for good behaviour doesn't mean Roy should have his time card doctored, too. However, I will offer to split his penalty and take 7.5 months of his jail time in exchange for information when I need it.
RG
It's not a car club. If you need to be stroked go to the local massage parlor.
I for one am glad to be a member. If it wasn't for this watch dog group there would be a million "original" mid year big block rare black with red stinger fully loaded Vettes floating around. If originality is your passion then join up. If you don't give a rats *** about originality then stay away. But don't come on here and unload on them just because you don't want overspray or certain head bolt markings or whatever. I find the people who bash the NCRS and say they are too **** are the same ones who don't want to put the time or effort into their cars to make them "correct." That's fine if they don't want to do it. Just don't ask the NCRS to dumb down the criteria so your car might get a few more points for being wrong.
Rules are rules and Roy left. He knew the rules on the way out. Just because what's her name gets away with just a few days in jail and a couple weeks in rehab for good behaviour doesn't mean Roy should have his time card doctored, too. However, I will offer to split his penalty and take 7.5 months of his jail time in exchange for information when I need it.
RG
Just so I understand, the NCRS does not want members that are not concerned about originality? Or is that just your position?
LT
08-25-2010, 03:03 PM
#123
Racer
Member Since: Jul 2009
Location: Covington Louisiana
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St. Jude Donor '10
Why is it that when the crap you stirred up settles you stir up some more. You are not helping NCRS with the attitude you are displaying. Yes, I am member.
08-25-2010, 03:31 PM
#124
Instructor
Hey 182,
Just to let you know that there are many NCRS members that support you in this, myself included as evidenced by a thread on TDB which you probably can't see now. NCRS banning you from judging is no problem, it is what it is and that part of the rules is clear. Anything more is excessive. You are a valued contributor to NCRS and especially the TDB. Hopefully this will be resolved in some sensible and non-excessive manner.
Jack #33879
Just to let you know that there are many NCRS members that support you in this, myself included as evidenced by a thread on TDB which you probably can't see now. NCRS banning you from judging is no problem, it is what it is and that part of the rules is clear. Anything more is excessive. You are a valued contributor to NCRS and especially the TDB. Hopefully this will be resolved in some sensible and non-excessive manner.
Jack #33879
08-25-2010, 04:15 PM
#125
Drifting
NCRS member since 1990. Also an early member of SACE that Roy started. Now also a member of SACC. I have met Roy and have bought parts from him. I visit both the NCRS discussion board and the Corvette forum. I found the technical information available from the Restorer and the discussion board very helpful in restoring my '57 and 61.
Yes, I have been to some NCRS Regional and National meets where I observed some arrogance from some of the long time members. Some of the NCRS rules seemed a little nitpicky but I assumed there was a reason for them. After 4 years in the US Navy I knew what real nitpicky rules were. Most of the NCRS members are good people and not worthy of the bashing that has gone on this thread.
I tend to ignore the "politics" of any organization and value it for the information and the friendships that I find.
Yes, I have been to some NCRS Regional and National meets where I observed some arrogance from some of the long time members. Some of the NCRS rules seemed a little nitpicky but I assumed there was a reason for them. After 4 years in the US Navy I knew what real nitpicky rules were. Most of the NCRS members are good people and not worthy of the bashing that has gone on this thread.
I tend to ignore the "politics" of any organization and value it for the information and the friendships that I find.
08-25-2010, 04:46 PM
#126
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Hey 182,
Just to let you know that there are many NCRS members that support you in this, myself included as evidenced by a thread on TDB which you probably can't see now. NCRS banning you from judging is no problem, it is what it is and that part of the rules is clear. Anything more is excessive. You are a valued contributor to NCRS and especially the TDB. Hopefully this will be resolved in some sensible and non-excessive manner.
Jack #33879
Just to let you know that there are many NCRS members that support you in this, myself included as evidenced by a thread on TDB which you probably can't see now. NCRS banning you from judging is no problem, it is what it is and that part of the rules is clear. Anything more is excessive. You are a valued contributor to NCRS and especially the TDB. Hopefully this will be resolved in some sensible and non-excessive manner.
Jack #33879
05 was the first time going back to NCRS in over 25 years showing a Corvette. All this talk and wondering what really happened is crazy " I JUST BROKE THE RULES story over!!
[
08-25-2010, 05:31 PM
#129
Safety Car
Over 3500+ views in one day...... ? .. This one sure struck a nerve. ! . Rules being rules, getting called on leaving early might be one thing, but the other concurrent penalty (banned from NCRS forum) seems a bit heavy handed, IMO. Also NCRS member.
08-25-2010, 06:14 PM
#131
Instructor
Member Since: Jun 2008
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There is nothing wrong with the NCRS and its intentions but somebody here went overboard and abused his or her authority by banning this guy.The Corvette hobby is not a serious thing in life--it is just a hobby for Gods sake and nothing more,nothing less.The most important things in life are people and their feelings.Someone should call this member and apologize. Just remind him of the rules and thats it-over and out.
08-25-2010, 08:08 PM
#132
Drifting
Member Since: Aug 2004
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Here's an exact quote from the Sixth Edition of the JRM: ".....................owners prematurely removing cars from the judging field will nullify any award received and result in a 13 month suspension of the owner from any NCRS judging process".
Roy's complaint is NOT about the suspension, but about being banned from the Technical Discussion Board.
Is participation in the Discussion Board a part of the "judging process". OKAY, some nit picker, lawyer type will say that it is, if you are responding to a question. But how about lurking. Just being able to log on and watch. Roy cannot do this as his logon is locked out. Same as any non-dues paying non-members.
Was the wording changed or updated in the latest edition? Somebody please explain. I agree with the "rules are rules" mentality, but in Roy's case, it seems that they went beyond "throwing the book at him".
Roy's complaint is NOT about the suspension, but about being banned from the Technical Discussion Board.
Is participation in the Discussion Board a part of the "judging process". OKAY, some nit picker, lawyer type will say that it is, if you are responding to a question. But how about lurking. Just being able to log on and watch. Roy cannot do this as his logon is locked out. Same as any non-dues paying non-members.
Was the wording changed or updated in the latest edition? Somebody please explain. I agree with the "rules are rules" mentality, but in Roy's case, it seems that they went beyond "throwing the book at him".
08-25-2010, 08:42 PM
#133
Drifting
Hmm... This sounds like really good motivation material for joining NCRS.
So, let me get this correct. I pay my dues to an organization for many, many years without fail. I contribute my time, knowledge, and efforts to help the orgainzation. I bring my car to their event and, because someone has a burr under their bum
I can't use any facilities that I paid to use for over a year.
Yep, sounds excessive to me.
Glad I'm going the resto-mod approach.
-- Joe
So, let me get this correct. I pay my dues to an organization for many, many years without fail. I contribute my time, knowledge, and efforts to help the orgainzation. I bring my car to their event and, because someone has a burr under their bum
I can't use any facilities that I paid to use for over a year.Yep, sounds excessive to me.
Glad I'm going the resto-mod approach.
-- Joe
08-25-2010, 09:07 PM
#134
Instructor
:o
08-25-2010, 09:22 PM
#135
12.14 w/ the original 327
I'm a former NCRS member, for many of the reasons previously stated. To be honest, the biggest azzhats I've encountered at car shows have been proud, outspoken NCRS members. I'd rather deal with a horde of unsupervised children running circles around my 62, than have a couple of typical, NCRS chest-thumpers looking it over at a local cruise-in. The children will likely be more respectful...
There are many good, knowledgeable, and helpful NCRS members. I have met a few through this forum. Unfortunately, the other 99% give them a bad name.
Of course, the NCRS is not without merit. I want people to continue to preserve original, unmolested Vettes, or to immaculately restore them. That way, my grand children may someday know the joy of cutting-up and racing an umolested, numbers-matching solid axle Corvette.
It's just a matter of time until old Vettes are treated like shoebox Chevies... cut-up and modified to the owners taste, with no real effect on re-sale value, and the Corvette hobby will be better off for it.
There are many good, knowledgeable, and helpful NCRS members. I have met a few through this forum. Unfortunately, the other 99% give them a bad name.
Of course, the NCRS is not without merit. I want people to continue to preserve original, unmolested Vettes, or to immaculately restore them. That way, my grand children may someday know the joy of cutting-up and racing an umolested, numbers-matching solid axle Corvette.
It's just a matter of time until old Vettes are treated like shoebox Chevies... cut-up and modified to the owners taste, with no real effect on re-sale value, and the Corvette hobby will be better off for it.
08-25-2010, 09:43 PM
#136
Melting Slicks
I was going to stay out of this but I cannnot. First let me say I know and like Roy. He is a wealth of knowledge and a nice guy. But that said, he does not follow rules. I was at Bend and witnessed Roy leaving the field. Roy has left several omissions out of his story. I will just list a few. Roy did the exact same thing at the San Jose National last year. He was informed on both occasions that cars were not allowed to leave. He chose to do so regardless with total disgard for the safety of the speculators. Roy had packed up from the swap meet the previous day. He attended the awards banquet that evening four hours after leaving the field. Please understand that the safety of all is the number one priority of the NCRS staff and I hope it will always be. Again, I know and like Roy but we are all accountable for our actions and sometimes must receive corrective direction.
And before anyone ask's, I'm a member (2862) and I do judge as much as family commitments (which always come first) allow.. I've enjoyed some really great friendships from the NCRS (and here) but I'll tell you that the "turds" outnumber them significantly.. We'll keep the light on for ya Roy..
/joe
Last edited by joec; 08-25-2010 at 09:44 PM. Reason: grammar.. getting old...
08-25-2010, 10:06 PM
#137
Drifting
I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of NCRS. With that said, I have two comments here:
1. If someone deserved a penalty, and that penalty was waived or reduced due to the fact that someone was a "35 year member", THAT would make me think it was nothing more than an "old boy's club" and strongly discourage me from becoming a new member.
2. As far as people being "sticklers", if people who are "sticklers" for rules and minutia annoy you, and/or you are not at least a little bit of a "stickler" yourself, I would suggest that restoring a car for judging as a hobby is likely not a good match for your personality.
1. If someone deserved a penalty, and that penalty was waived or reduced due to the fact that someone was a "35 year member", THAT would make me think it was nothing more than an "old boy's club" and strongly discourage me from becoming a new member.
2. As far as people being "sticklers", if people who are "sticklers" for rules and minutia annoy you, and/or you are not at least a little bit of a "stickler" yourself, I would suggest that restoring a car for judging as a hobby is likely not a good match for your personality.
08-25-2010, 10:24 PM
#138
Le Mans Master
If it were me, I would probably be like Roy and be ok with the suspension from judging but....I would feel overly disciplined if I was made to feel like an outcast by a group of folks that I had been associated with (and helped to move the organiztion forward) for many years.
08-25-2010, 10:50 PM
#139
Instructor
Roy has had his supporters and critics over the years, but he has always provided a wealth of information here and in the NCRS. His departure diminishes any group. NCRS is a good source of information, but they are purists. Overspray is more important to them than oversteer (or understeer). Some drive, fewer drive them hard. It's a different group, and as any group, it has positives and negatives. Members should take a look at the discussion on this topic there now. As I said, different. I enjoy both forums. Hope Roy continues to contribute when and as he can.
Reed Flickinger (27656)
Reed Flickinger (27656)
08-25-2010, 10:59 PM
#140
Drifting
Member Since: Mar 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,300
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Here's an exact quote from the Sixth Edition of the JRM: ".....................owners prematurely removing cars from the judging field will nullify any award received and result in a 13 month suspension of the owner from any NCRS judging process".
Roy's complaint is NOT about the suspension, but about being banned from the Technical Discussion Board.
Is participation in the Discussion Board a part of the "judging process". OKAY, some nit picker, lawyer type will say that it is, if you are responding to a question. But how about lurking. Just being able to log on and watch. Roy cannot do this as his logon is locked out. Same as any non-dues paying non-members.
Was the wording changed or updated in the latest edition? Somebody please explain. I agree with the "rules are rules" mentality, but in Roy's case, it seems that they went beyond "throwing the book at him".
Roy's complaint is NOT about the suspension, but about being banned from the Technical Discussion Board.
Is participation in the Discussion Board a part of the "judging process". OKAY, some nit picker, lawyer type will say that it is, if you are responding to a question. But how about lurking. Just being able to log on and watch. Roy cannot do this as his logon is locked out. Same as any non-dues paying non-members.
Was the wording changed or updated in the latest edition? Somebody please explain. I agree with the "rules are rules" mentality, but in Roy's case, it seems that they went beyond "throwing the book at him".
In my opinion, for what it's worth, I can't see how anyone can justify the additional sanction of banning Roy from the NCRS forum. It is above and beyond the penalty for the infraction.
