67 RG 5-speed conversion (long)
05-07-2002, 01:38 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
67 RG 5-speed conversion (long)
I Finally completed the switch from M-22 and 4.11’s to Richmond Gear 5-speed and 3.08’s this past weekend. All I can say is wow! This really transformed the character of the car and has impressively increased its operating envelope. Whereas I used to avoid highway driving whenever possible, it now is an enjoyable experience and an opportunity to stretch out the 540’s legs.
To better illustrate the changes, see below:
M-22 w/4.11: 60mph=3070;75mph=3840; top gear 6600rpm=129
RG 5-sp w/3.08: 60mph=2300; 75mph=2875; top gear 6600=172
Note I have no intention of verifying new top speed in my C2. Zora didn’t proclaim midyears “have just enough lift for a bad airplane” without reason!
OK, on to the nuts & bolts of what it took to make this conversion. First some background information. Before I ordered any parts, I set some requirements for the upgrade:
1. Significantly drop highway rpm w/o compromising low gear multiplication of 4.11’s
2. Be sufficiently stout to handle torque of the 540
3. Retain factory appearance of the console
4. Retain functional reverse light operation
I’ve got to give credit to Ray Opperman (TheOman) who not only has done this very conversion, but supplied supporting documentation, pictures and advice on how to proceed. Thanks Ray!
I ruled out the impressive Tremec TKO due to the top location of the internal rail shifter as this presented challenges to retaining a factory correct console appearance. Additionally the longer overall length of the Tremec required a shorter driveshaft. I also ruled out the ROD 6-speed as the longer distance to the transmission mount looked to require cross member modifications (according to MassVette this may not be the case), coupled with the bulky Long shifter did not look conducive to retaining the factory console. Therefore I chose the Richmond Gear 5-speed transmission, which appeared to be the most user-friendly installation of the three. On a heads up from Flareside (thanks Joe!), I purchased a prepared RG Road Race 5-speed transmission from G-Force for a very reasonable price.
I opted for the Hurst shifter as the Long unit appeared to sit higher and looked bulkier than the Hurst. I was unsure if I could maintain the factory appearance with this shifter.
A downside to the Hurst shifter for the RG 5-speed is it sits higher along the transmission than the 4-speed shifter and therefore the bulk of the shifter itself protrudes into the console. The shifter boot will stretch to cover the shifter, but it does not look right to me. But as previously stated, Ray already accounted for this.
Basically the shifter mounting plate was sectioned & lowered, effectively lowering the shifter approx. 1.5” on the transmission. This along with the aftermarket Corvette shift handle solved my desire to keep the factory console appearance, but in turn required some cross member modification. By lowering the shifter, the 5th – Reverse shift lever now interferes with the driver side exhaust pass-thru in the transmission cross member. I cut the cross member before installing the transmission, and completed cutting after the transmission was installed. Lots of Sawz-All blades and garage words were expended in the process. I am now a more capable Sawz-All operator than I ever imagined possible…
Hurst 5-speed shifter mount bracket as received:
Modified shifter mount bracket:
The other modification required for the RG 5-speed is a 2.5” shorter transmission to cross member mount bracket. I had a friend modify mine at his machine shop.
Trans mount bracket before modification:
Trans mount bracket after modification:
Although the modified transmission mount bracket fit when mocked up on the garage floor, it didn’t fit once installed. Expelling a few garage words in the process of discovering this, I simply removed the offending bracket and applied some Sawz-All wizardry and viola, it fit upon re-installation! Of course all this would’ve been a lot easier to do BEFORE installing the transmission.
The RG 5-speed does not have provisions for a reverse light switch. Per Ray’s instructions and pictures, I purchased and unsuccessfully tried to install a Hurst/Mr. Gasket universal reverse light switch. Turns out the mounting surface of the Lakewood scattershield I’m running is much broader than the factory bellhousing (Ray's setup), which more closely follows the shape of the transmission mounting face. No problem, a NOS micro-switch installed with ease and works just fine.
Here’s a picture of the installed transmission bracket and partially notched cross member
I’ve got to say I’m less than thrilled with the as-received quality of the Hurst 5-speed shifter and rods. I had to bend the 1st – 2nd and 3rd – 4th rods at 2 locations and relieve (ie grind aluminum) the side of the transmission for adequate shifter rod clearance. I also cut off ~ 4” excess length from the threaded end of the 5th – Reverse rod. And this was required regardless of the lowered shift mount. This was a rather tedious trial and error operation that I’m glad to have done on the garage floor prior to installation in the car.
This is quite different than the Hurst Competition Plus 4-speed shifter it replaces. The 4-speed fit perfect as-received and shifted like butter from day one. Now that the Hurst 5-speed is installed and I’ve driven it, it has loosened some, but is still ‘notchier’ than the 4-speed when downshifting. I find I have to precisely follow the ‘H’ pattern or my downshifts are blocked. Upshifts are comparable to the 4-speed.
Unlike the Tremec TKO or the ROD 6-speed, the RG 5-speed is not an overdrive transmission. Therefore in order to fully exploit the benefit of the extra gear, a reduction in rear end gearing was in order.
I was fortunate to purchase a barely used & complete Toms’ Differentials 1480 BOE 3.08 rear end from a good friend who now runs a Tom’s BOE 3.36/ROD 6-speed in his 64 502. Seeing as I’m already running 1350 30-spline outer axles from Tom’s along with Denny’s DriveShaft 3” half shafts, I swapped the 1480 inner axles for 30-spline 1350 inner axles. I also upgraded the factory U-joint flanges to Tom’s billet pieces.
One thing from switching from 1480 snap ring axles to 1350 c-clip axles is you must remove the ears on the sides of the differential housing to allow for sufficient room to push in the axles to install the c-clips. The 1350 axles are about 1” shorter than the 1480 axles and are not stepped (as are the 1480’s). Although Tom’s stuff is pricey, it is high quality.
Here is a picture of the interior after installation. Note the factory appearance of the console and shift handle.
Although it took more time (and garage words) than I had originally planned, I’m extremely pleased with the results. I heartily recommend this upgrade to anyone.
In addition to Ray, I’d like to thank Jim Moore (427HotRod) who shared his considerable knowledge throughout the process and helped smooth over some of the bumps along the way.
Take care,
Mark
[Modified by ML67, 12:42 AM 5/7/2002]
[Modified by ML67, 12:49 AM 5/7/2002]
[Modified by ML67, 1:44 AM 5/7/2002]
To better illustrate the changes, see below:
M-22 w/4.11: 60mph=3070;75mph=3840; top gear 6600rpm=129
RG 5-sp w/3.08: 60mph=2300; 75mph=2875; top gear 6600=172
Note I have no intention of verifying new top speed in my C2. Zora didn’t proclaim midyears “have just enough lift for a bad airplane” without reason!
OK, on to the nuts & bolts of what it took to make this conversion. First some background information. Before I ordered any parts, I set some requirements for the upgrade:
1. Significantly drop highway rpm w/o compromising low gear multiplication of 4.11’s
2. Be sufficiently stout to handle torque of the 540
3. Retain factory appearance of the console
4. Retain functional reverse light operation
I’ve got to give credit to Ray Opperman (TheOman) who not only has done this very conversion, but supplied supporting documentation, pictures and advice on how to proceed. Thanks Ray!
I ruled out the impressive Tremec TKO due to the top location of the internal rail shifter as this presented challenges to retaining a factory correct console appearance. Additionally the longer overall length of the Tremec required a shorter driveshaft. I also ruled out the ROD 6-speed as the longer distance to the transmission mount looked to require cross member modifications (according to MassVette this may not be the case), coupled with the bulky Long shifter did not look conducive to retaining the factory console. Therefore I chose the Richmond Gear 5-speed transmission, which appeared to be the most user-friendly installation of the three. On a heads up from Flareside (thanks Joe!), I purchased a prepared RG Road Race 5-speed transmission from G-Force for a very reasonable price.
I opted for the Hurst shifter as the Long unit appeared to sit higher and looked bulkier than the Hurst. I was unsure if I could maintain the factory appearance with this shifter.
A downside to the Hurst shifter for the RG 5-speed is it sits higher along the transmission than the 4-speed shifter and therefore the bulk of the shifter itself protrudes into the console. The shifter boot will stretch to cover the shifter, but it does not look right to me. But as previously stated, Ray already accounted for this.
Basically the shifter mounting plate was sectioned & lowered, effectively lowering the shifter approx. 1.5” on the transmission. This along with the aftermarket Corvette shift handle solved my desire to keep the factory console appearance, but in turn required some cross member modification. By lowering the shifter, the 5th – Reverse shift lever now interferes with the driver side exhaust pass-thru in the transmission cross member. I cut the cross member before installing the transmission, and completed cutting after the transmission was installed. Lots of Sawz-All blades and garage words were expended in the process. I am now a more capable Sawz-All operator than I ever imagined possible…
Hurst 5-speed shifter mount bracket as received:
Modified shifter mount bracket:
The other modification required for the RG 5-speed is a 2.5” shorter transmission to cross member mount bracket. I had a friend modify mine at his machine shop.
Trans mount bracket before modification:
Trans mount bracket after modification:
Although the modified transmission mount bracket fit when mocked up on the garage floor, it didn’t fit once installed. Expelling a few garage words in the process of discovering this, I simply removed the offending bracket and applied some Sawz-All wizardry and viola, it fit upon re-installation! Of course all this would’ve been a lot easier to do BEFORE installing the transmission.
The RG 5-speed does not have provisions for a reverse light switch. Per Ray’s instructions and pictures, I purchased and unsuccessfully tried to install a Hurst/Mr. Gasket universal reverse light switch. Turns out the mounting surface of the Lakewood scattershield I’m running is much broader than the factory bellhousing (Ray's setup), which more closely follows the shape of the transmission mounting face. No problem, a NOS micro-switch installed with ease and works just fine.
Here’s a picture of the installed transmission bracket and partially notched cross member
I’ve got to say I’m less than thrilled with the as-received quality of the Hurst 5-speed shifter and rods. I had to bend the 1st – 2nd and 3rd – 4th rods at 2 locations and relieve (ie grind aluminum) the side of the transmission for adequate shifter rod clearance. I also cut off ~ 4” excess length from the threaded end of the 5th – Reverse rod. And this was required regardless of the lowered shift mount. This was a rather tedious trial and error operation that I’m glad to have done on the garage floor prior to installation in the car.
This is quite different than the Hurst Competition Plus 4-speed shifter it replaces. The 4-speed fit perfect as-received and shifted like butter from day one. Now that the Hurst 5-speed is installed and I’ve driven it, it has loosened some, but is still ‘notchier’ than the 4-speed when downshifting. I find I have to precisely follow the ‘H’ pattern or my downshifts are blocked. Upshifts are comparable to the 4-speed.
Unlike the Tremec TKO or the ROD 6-speed, the RG 5-speed is not an overdrive transmission. Therefore in order to fully exploit the benefit of the extra gear, a reduction in rear end gearing was in order.
I was fortunate to purchase a barely used & complete Toms’ Differentials 1480 BOE 3.08 rear end from a good friend who now runs a Tom’s BOE 3.36/ROD 6-speed in his 64 502. Seeing as I’m already running 1350 30-spline outer axles from Tom’s along with Denny’s DriveShaft 3” half shafts, I swapped the 1480 inner axles for 30-spline 1350 inner axles. I also upgraded the factory U-joint flanges to Tom’s billet pieces.
One thing from switching from 1480 snap ring axles to 1350 c-clip axles is you must remove the ears on the sides of the differential housing to allow for sufficient room to push in the axles to install the c-clips. The 1350 axles are about 1” shorter than the 1480 axles and are not stepped (as are the 1480’s). Although Tom’s stuff is pricey, it is high quality.
Here is a picture of the interior after installation. Note the factory appearance of the console and shift handle.
Although it took more time (and garage words) than I had originally planned, I’m extremely pleased with the results. I heartily recommend this upgrade to anyone.
In addition to Ray, I’d like to thank Jim Moore (427HotRod) who shared his considerable knowledge throughout the process and helped smooth over some of the bumps along the way.
Take care,
Mark
[Modified by ML67, 12:42 AM 5/7/2002]
[Modified by ML67, 12:49 AM 5/7/2002]
[Modified by ML67, 1:44 AM 5/7/2002]
05-07-2002, 10:19 AM
#2
Safety Car
Member Since: Apr 2001
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Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (ML67)
Nice job of documenting your changes Mark.
Thanks for sharing this information with us. :cheers:
And the garage words :lol:
Thanks for sharing this information with us. :cheers:
And the garage words :lol:
05-07-2002, 11:04 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Aug 1999
Location: Atlanta, Ga, Fulton
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Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (ML67)
Mark
Nice job with the documents. Thanks for the recognition. I should have done the job you did with documentation myself. I have communicated this conversion to a few folks using the same methods I used with you. Should have just blasted it out on the net like you did. Would have saved some postage and made the conversion more easily accessed. Anyway if anyone is interested in this conversion I would be glad to assist if I can. If you are in North Fulton County in Atlanta I would even do a house call for folks working on this conversion.
Your trans to crossmember mount is MUCH prettier than mine. When I worked in engineering some of the prototype pieces we fabbed up were pretty ugly and the second /3rd generation stuff was much better. I guess this is the case with that mount. My first gen piece "works" but it is no beauty contest winner. Wanna gen up a new one for me???? Just kidding. I just might redo mine, yours looks so good.
Surprised about the rods needing surgery even before the mounting plate mods. Not a good comment for Hurst quality control. Might be Mr. Gasket is not as fastidious now that they own Hurst?
One thing I would add for would be conversion mavins. The Hurst bolts to the set of mounting holes that are the farthest to the rear of the car. In this position the fore and aft location of the stick is dead nuts factory stock.
Mark: Welcome to The Exaulted Order Of Sawz- All Masters!
Drop me some data / opinions about the 3:08's I am thinking one of my next adventures might be a gear change from the 3:36 I have now
[Modified by TheOman, 9:09 AM 5/7/2002]
[Modified by TheOman, 9:16 AM 5/7/2002]
Nice job with the documents. Thanks for the recognition. I should have done the job you did with documentation myself. I have communicated this conversion to a few folks using the same methods I used with you. Should have just blasted it out on the net like you did. Would have saved some postage and made the conversion more easily accessed. Anyway if anyone is interested in this conversion I would be glad to assist if I can. If you are in North Fulton County in Atlanta I would even do a house call for folks working on this conversion.
Your trans to crossmember mount is MUCH prettier than mine. When I worked in engineering some of the prototype pieces we fabbed up were pretty ugly and the second /3rd generation stuff was much better. I guess this is the case with that mount. My first gen piece "works" but it is no beauty contest winner. Wanna gen up a new one for me???? Just kidding. I just might redo mine, yours looks so good.
Surprised about the rods needing surgery even before the mounting plate mods. Not a good comment for Hurst quality control. Might be Mr. Gasket is not as fastidious now that they own Hurst?
One thing I would add for would be conversion mavins. The Hurst bolts to the set of mounting holes that are the farthest to the rear of the car. In this position the fore and aft location of the stick is dead nuts factory stock.
Mark: Welcome to The Exaulted Order Of Sawz- All Masters!
Drop me some data / opinions about the 3:08's I am thinking one of my next adventures might be a gear change from the 3:36 I have now
[Modified by TheOman, 9:09 AM 5/7/2002]
[Modified by TheOman, 9:16 AM 5/7/2002]
05-07-2002, 11:23 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
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Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (ML67)
Weird Dupe was here. I revised the post and the new one appeared above the original. The original also appeared. Whazzzzup? This happened once before.
[Modified by TheOman, 9:25 AM 5/7/2002]
[Modified by TheOman, 9:25 AM 5/7/2002]
05-07-2002, 11:41 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (TheOman)
Ray -- No, thank *you*! It would've been a lot more difficult without having instructions and pictures to refer to.
I had heard some people did not have great results w/ the Hurst 5-speed. I guess I was one of the unlucky ones. I have used Hurst products for many years and have been impressed with their quality. But its amazing to me they sell a shifter designed specifically for a transmission and claim in the instructions you may have to notch the transmission for rod clearance and some bending may be required. Well some bending and notching was definitely required!
When I first mocked it up prior to lowering the shift mount plate, I noticed the rods were neither parallel nor were the ends of the shift rods 90 degrees perpendicular -- some were more, others less. All this resulted in severe binding. And it didn't just graze the side of the transmission, it hit it hard!
I suppose I could understand if it was a universal shifter, but its designed specifically for the Richmond 5-speed. It took more adjusting, bending and grinding than a $300 shifter should.
I'm pleased with the final shift quality -- but not the process!
Has anyone else had good/bad/similar experience with the Hurst shifter for the RG 5-speed transmission?
Take care,
Mark
I had heard some people did not have great results w/ the Hurst 5-speed. I guess I was one of the unlucky ones. I have used Hurst products for many years and have been impressed with their quality. But its amazing to me they sell a shifter designed specifically for a transmission and claim in the instructions you may have to notch the transmission for rod clearance and some bending may be required. Well some bending and notching was definitely required!
When I first mocked it up prior to lowering the shift mount plate, I noticed the rods were neither parallel nor were the ends of the shift rods 90 degrees perpendicular -- some were more, others less. All this resulted in severe binding. And it didn't just graze the side of the transmission, it hit it hard!
I suppose I could understand if it was a universal shifter, but its designed specifically for the Richmond 5-speed. It took more adjusting, bending and grinding than a $300 shifter should.
I'm pleased with the final shift quality -- but not the process!
Has anyone else had good/bad/similar experience with the Hurst shifter for the RG 5-speed transmission?
Take care,
Mark
05-07-2002, 02:29 PM
#6
Advanced
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Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (ML67)
Mark,
Your car looks terrific!
I also had a similar (negative) experience with the Hurst shifter on the RG
5-speed. Not only was the shifting relatively "mushy", but, at least on the
shifter that I had, there was no reverse lock out. Not good. In my car
you could shift from 5th to reverse with the same effort as from 3rd to
4th.
We removed the Hurst and installed the Long shifter ($380.00). Much better.
Mark
Your car looks terrific!
I also had a similar (negative) experience with the Hurst shifter on the RG
5-speed. Not only was the shifting relatively "mushy", but, at least on the
shifter that I had, there was no reverse lock out. Not good. In my car
you could shift from 5th to reverse with the same effort as from 3rd to
4th.
We removed the Hurst and installed the Long shifter ($380.00). Much better.
Mark
05-07-2002, 03:21 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (Mark Huselid)
Wayne & Mark,
Thanks for the compliments. Its a lot more enjoyable to look back than it was doing some of the work! Of course the real enjoyment is in the driving.
Mark, I think the Long shifter is a better unit than the Hurst, but I was concerned about the bulk of the shifter and wasn't sure if it would fit the console -- the only reason I didn't purchase a Long. I see from your pictures it fits nicely in the console; it appears to sit just a little higher than stock. Do you have much room between the shift levers and the cross member? I'm wondering if a similar procedure used to lower the Hurst shifter could've been applied to the Long shifter.
No reverse lockout on mine either. Fortunately the difference between 5th to reverse and 5th to 4th is obvious. But the lack of a reverse lockout certainly gives me good reason to be precise and not become lazy on downshifts.
Take care,
Mark
[Modified by ML67, 2:26 PM 5/7/2002]
Thanks for the compliments. Its a lot more enjoyable to look back than it was doing some of the work! Of course the real enjoyment is in the driving.
Mark, I think the Long shifter is a better unit than the Hurst, but I was concerned about the bulk of the shifter and wasn't sure if it would fit the console -- the only reason I didn't purchase a Long. I see from your pictures it fits nicely in the console; it appears to sit just a little higher than stock. Do you have much room between the shift levers and the cross member? I'm wondering if a similar procedure used to lower the Hurst shifter could've been applied to the Long shifter.
No reverse lockout on mine either. Fortunately the difference between 5th to reverse and 5th to 4th is obvious. But the lack of a reverse lockout certainly gives me good reason to be precise and not become lazy on downshifts.
Take care,
Mark
[Modified by ML67, 2:26 PM 5/7/2002]
05-07-2002, 04:58 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (ML67)
Mark,
Great job with the conversion and the documentation. That should help many other folks who are considering this change.
We did ours three years ago and used the Hurst shifter. Fortunately I didn't run into the same problems with the linkage. Maybe the shifters have been changed from the one I got but I didn't have to modify it at all. The Long shifter sounds like a good alternative now. I'm using a 3:36 rear gear and this also works fine on the highway. With the power of these engines you certainly don't need a very high gear!
Enjoy your driving this summer.
Rich Lagasse
Great job with the conversion and the documentation. That should help many other folks who are considering this change.
We did ours three years ago and used the Hurst shifter. Fortunately I didn't run into the same problems with the linkage. Maybe the shifters have been changed from the one I got but I didn't have to modify it at all. The Long shifter sounds like a good alternative now. I'm using a 3:36 rear gear and this also works fine on the highway. With the power of these engines you certainly don't need a very high gear!
Enjoy your driving this summer.
Rich Lagasse
05-07-2002, 05:25 PM
#10
Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (richscorvettes)
Great job! We did the same notch on the shifter bracket and crossmember. Your cut of the crossmember is much cleaner than mine. I was worried about the strength of the crossmember with the cut, but have not noticed any sag. A sheet metal shop that makes wood stoves made my trans mount. There weren't any problems with my Hurst shifter. The shifter was "balky" at first, but got better after a few hours of driving. You still have to make 90 degree turns to go through the shift pattern though. On a side note, my motor has developed a miss on one cylinder that doesn't seem to be spark related. I'm checking the compression tonight. I went ape having fun last week and hit 7,000 on the tach a few times; may have bent a valve. The motor and car are tired. It may be time for a complete refresh. And, I just got my cash together to purchase a '98-'99 C5. What to do...
05-07-2002, 06:32 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (MassVette)
MassVette -- Thanks! Have you had an opportunity to post additional pictures on the ROD 6-speed in the 67? I'm particularly interested in seeing the console -- any cutting required?
Rich -- High praise indeed from someone of your considerable accomplishments. Your garage is, well, lets just say its as nice as the Corvettes you've built.
stngry63 -- But I didn't post the final picture of the cross member notch. Unfortunately I had to significantly elongate it after installing the engine & transmission. It did not remain so clean cut as its difficult weilding a Sawz-All in there with the tranny in place...
Hopefully your miss turns out to be minor, but if not well its an SOI (Significant Opportunity for Improvement -- a Noel Carboniism).
aj -- Thank you!
Rich -- High praise indeed from someone of your considerable accomplishments. Your garage is, well, lets just say its as nice as the Corvettes you've built.
stngry63 -- But I didn't post the final picture of the cross member notch. Unfortunately I had to significantly elongate it after installing the engine & transmission. It did not remain so clean cut as its difficult weilding a Sawz-All in there with the tranny in place...
Hopefully your miss turns out to be minor, but if not well its an SOI (Significant Opportunity for Improvement -- a Noel Carboniism).
aj -- Thank you!
05-07-2002, 07:47 PM
#13
Live Free or Die
Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (ML67)
Nice job and thanks for the tips. I will be doing this conversion next weekend and your tips will definately help out.
Hopefully I can handle it. If not I will be looking for a little guidance.
:cheers:
Hopefully I can handle it. If not I will be looking for a little guidance.
:cheers:
05-07-2002, 11:18 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (ML67)
Very nice, clean installation. What first gear do you guys run?
I've got the 3.27 and I think I'd like something closer to 3 even.
I've got the 3.27 and I think I'd like something closer to 3 even.
05-08-2002, 02:12 AM
#16
Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (ML67)
ML67,
Thanks for the great documentation. I plan on doing the same conversion and now I know what to expect in the way of challenges. You mentioned that you had to elongate the notch in the exhaust tube quite a bit more than shown in the pictures. Does the notch now consume like 3/4's of the tube?
Again great job!
Andy B
Thanks for the great documentation. I plan on doing the same conversion and now I know what to expect in the way of challenges. You mentioned that you had to elongate the notch in the exhaust tube quite a bit more than shown in the pictures. Does the notch now consume like 3/4's of the tube?
Again great job!
Andy B
05-08-2002, 09:33 AM
#17
Melting Slicks
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Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (Steve439)
I have 3:36 gears in the rear and 3:27 in the trans for first gear. I am thinking of swapping in the 3:04 first gear set when I take the trans out later this summer. Depends on the budget and what I have to spend on fixing an annoying crunch in 5th gear.
I was thinking about the swap this moring while out getting my morning exercise. Going to do some research on gear cost and availability later today. I hope the 3:04's are available for the street 5 Speeds with syncros that are compatible to what is in the box now. Hopefully all I need is two new gears.
For Andy: I think there is about 1 and 1/2 inch of the tunnel remaining on my install. To be honest I did not measure it. I was just plain happy to put the Sawz-All and the grinder down once I had enough space to fit the shifter in.
I have had no problems with flexing that I can identify and somebody else reported the same "no Problemo" results. I even took my car to a welder. I od some of my own welding but considered a pro for this work. I was going to fab up a gusset for the under side of the tunnel. Kinda like a jockstrap if you will. The welder said it woulld be a piece of cake but that I should wait and see if I needed it. So far not a problem. My plan was to just fab up a piece of flat stock to match the contour of the tunnel underside and a few inches of the crossmember on eather sideof the tunnel. Weld it on a away you go.
I was thinking about the swap this moring while out getting my morning exercise. Going to do some research on gear cost and availability later today. I hope the 3:04's are available for the street 5 Speeds with syncros that are compatible to what is in the box now. Hopefully all I need is two new gears.
For Andy: I think there is about 1 and 1/2 inch of the tunnel remaining on my install. To be honest I did not measure it. I was just plain happy to put the Sawz-All and the grinder down once I had enough space to fit the shifter in.
I have had no problems with flexing that I can identify and somebody else reported the same "no Problemo" results. I even took my car to a welder. I od some of my own welding but considered a pro for this work. I was going to fab up a gusset for the under side of the tunnel. Kinda like a jockstrap if you will. The welder said it woulld be a piece of cake but that I should wait and see if I needed it. So far not a problem. My plan was to just fab up a piece of flat stock to match the contour of the tunnel underside and a few inches of the crossmember on eather sideof the tunnel. Weld it on a away you go.
05-08-2002, 11:51 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (Duntov-097)
Duntov – Lots of people here ready to give support. You’ll be happy with the results!
Steve -- I have a 3.04 1st gear, and now that I’ve driven it, I’m glad I don’t have the shorter 3.27 1st gear.
Here is another comparison of the M-22 w/ 4.11’s and RG 5-speed w/ 3.08’s:
M-22 4-speed:
1st gear ratio = 2.20; overall 1st gear = 9.04; 6600 rpm redline = 59 mph
2nd gear ratio = 1.64; overall 2nd gear = 6.74; 6600 rpm redline = 79 mph
3rd gear ratio = 1.27; overall 3rd gear = 5.22; 6600 rpm redline = 102 mph
4th gear ratio = 1.00; overall 4th gear = 4.11; 6600 rpm redline = 129 mph
RG 5-speed:
1st gear ratio = 3.04; overall 1st gear = 9.36; 6600 rpm redline = 57 mph
2nd gear ratio = 2.13; overall 2nd gear = 6.56; 6600 rpm redline = 81 mph
3rd gear ratio = 1.57; overall 3rd gear = 4.84; 6600 rpm redline = 110 mph
4th gear ratio = 1.23; overall 4th gear = 3.79; 6600 rpm redline = 140 mph
5th gear ratio = 1.00; overall 5th gear = 3.08; 6600 rpm redline = 172 mph
Andy – The notch is at least ¾ the length of the cross member. I may add some gussets (jock straps – lol Ray!) just to be safe, but I don’t think it’s a problem.
Ray – have you decided which oil you will run in your transmission? I’ve installed the G2000 synthetic oil (made by Synergyn for G-Force). I’ve heard conflicting stories on the benefit/downside of dino vs. synthetic oil for transmissions, but decided to go with the recommendation from G-Force. I guess the dino – synthetic oil debate is no longer restricted to engines!
Take care,
Mark
Steve -- I have a 3.04 1st gear, and now that I’ve driven it, I’m glad I don’t have the shorter 3.27 1st gear.
Here is another comparison of the M-22 w/ 4.11’s and RG 5-speed w/ 3.08’s:
M-22 4-speed:
1st gear ratio = 2.20; overall 1st gear = 9.04; 6600 rpm redline = 59 mph
2nd gear ratio = 1.64; overall 2nd gear = 6.74; 6600 rpm redline = 79 mph
3rd gear ratio = 1.27; overall 3rd gear = 5.22; 6600 rpm redline = 102 mph
4th gear ratio = 1.00; overall 4th gear = 4.11; 6600 rpm redline = 129 mph
RG 5-speed:
1st gear ratio = 3.04; overall 1st gear = 9.36; 6600 rpm redline = 57 mph
2nd gear ratio = 2.13; overall 2nd gear = 6.56; 6600 rpm redline = 81 mph
3rd gear ratio = 1.57; overall 3rd gear = 4.84; 6600 rpm redline = 110 mph
4th gear ratio = 1.23; overall 4th gear = 3.79; 6600 rpm redline = 140 mph
5th gear ratio = 1.00; overall 5th gear = 3.08; 6600 rpm redline = 172 mph
Andy – The notch is at least ¾ the length of the cross member. I may add some gussets (jock straps – lol Ray!) just to be safe, but I don’t think it’s a problem.
Ray – have you decided which oil you will run in your transmission? I’ve installed the G2000 synthetic oil (made by Synergyn for G-Force). I’ve heard conflicting stories on the benefit/downside of dino vs. synthetic oil for transmissions, but decided to go with the recommendation from G-Force. I guess the dino – synthetic oil debate is no longer restricted to engines!
Take care,
Mark
05-08-2002, 01:29 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Aug 1999
Location: Atlanta, Ga, Fulton
Posts: 2,848
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (ML67)
Right now I have the Dino oil back in and just like I suspected it crunches less than it did with the Synth but it still is not RIGHT on like I want it. I suspect there is something amiss with 5th gear and I am trying to see what I can find out from a couple of sources before I start wrenching. I know it sounds just like a tired syncro but the gear box has so few miles I just can't swallow that idea.
A Richmond dealer in Claifornia called Driveline Engineering Specialties (I think) caught my eye. They have been around for ever working on Nash and Richmond units. Any way I dropped him an e-mail and he and I are gonna talk thru this problem.
I would like some help from you.
#1 Do you have any technical contacts inside G-Force? I suspect they might know something about the Richmond and know if it has any flaws in the 5th Gear syncro. Also since they do modifications to the unit perhaps they have stock "take out" parts for sale? Any ideas on a contact name?
#2 Since you are running a scatter shield did you align the bell housing with the center of the pilot bearing? The Driveline Engr. Guy says he thinks it might be the problem. I have not told him all the symptoms at length yet so he might change his mind when we talk. If you are familiar with aligning those bell housings I am gonna need help. Never done it. I also understand the roller Bearing pilot bushings are a good idea but I hear they are a bitch to install. All that alignment razz a mataz. Any knowledge on those busings? Did you use one? If so how much work was it to install????
#3 What do you know about the 3:04 first gear sets? If I am gonna take this bugger apart I might swap in the 3:04.
#4 Last but not least how does the G-Force road race syncro differ from the stock Richmond and how does it shift in street use? Does it work like the old Crash Boxes" where you almost have to power shift all the time? I might consider swapping out the Richmond 5th Reverse for a G-Force 5th if it works well on the street. I really really don't want to start messing with pulling out this trans more than once. If the G-Force 5th is streetable I might just go fo it.
Please advise on the 4 questions when you get some time.
[Modified by TheOman, 11:33 AM 5/8/2002]
A Richmond dealer in Claifornia called Driveline Engineering Specialties (I think) caught my eye. They have been around for ever working on Nash and Richmond units. Any way I dropped him an e-mail and he and I are gonna talk thru this problem.
I would like some help from you.
#1 Do you have any technical contacts inside G-Force? I suspect they might know something about the Richmond and know if it has any flaws in the 5th Gear syncro. Also since they do modifications to the unit perhaps they have stock "take out" parts for sale? Any ideas on a contact name?
#2 Since you are running a scatter shield did you align the bell housing with the center of the pilot bearing? The Driveline Engr. Guy says he thinks it might be the problem. I have not told him all the symptoms at length yet so he might change his mind when we talk. If you are familiar with aligning those bell housings I am gonna need help. Never done it. I also understand the roller Bearing pilot bushings are a good idea but I hear they are a bitch to install. All that alignment razz a mataz. Any knowledge on those busings? Did you use one? If so how much work was it to install????
#3 What do you know about the 3:04 first gear sets? If I am gonna take this bugger apart I might swap in the 3:04.
#4 Last but not least how does the G-Force road race syncro differ from the stock Richmond and how does it shift in street use? Does it work like the old Crash Boxes" where you almost have to power shift all the time? I might consider swapping out the Richmond 5th Reverse for a G-Force 5th if it works well on the street. I really really don't want to start messing with pulling out this trans more than once. If the G-Force 5th is streetable I might just go fo it.
Please advise on the 4 questions when you get some time.
[Modified by TheOman, 11:33 AM 5/8/2002]
05-08-2002, 02:25 PM
#20
Safety Car
Re: 67 RG 5-speed conversion (ML67)
Wow Mark, your car looks great! You certainly did a superb job on the installation. It looks awesome.
Where did you get the a transmission yoke? I haven't found a good source yet.
Thanks for the tip about the reverse light microswitch. I hadn't figured that one out either.
Reading this REALLY motivates me to finish my 540 and get it and the Richmond installed. I've been driving Jim (427Hotrod) crazy with emails about heads and cams :)
What does "BOE" stand for? I talked to Tom about my differential and axles, and he basically said that I should reinforce everything (10 bolt with his 1350 axles) major $$! Maybe next year. Love the shiny billet flanges!
-Joe
[Modified by Flareside, 2:16 PM 5/8/2002]
Where did you get the a transmission yoke? I haven't found a good source yet.
Thanks for the tip about the reverse light microswitch. I hadn't figured that one out either.
Reading this REALLY motivates me to finish my 540 and get it and the Richmond installed. I've been driving Jim (427Hotrod) crazy with emails about heads and cams :)
What does "BOE" stand for? I talked to Tom about my differential and axles, and he basically said that I should reinforce everything (10 bolt with his 1350 axles) major $$! Maybe next year. Love the shiny billet flanges!
-Joe
[Modified by Flareside, 2:16 PM 5/8/2002]