michael m baily

Old time engine builder rebuilt friends 62 327 fuelie, says you need zink additive in the oil, this weekend he started it up, friend forgot to put zink additive in the new oil, engine ran fine at first then started a bad noise, shut engine down, thought was a flat cam due to no zink in oil, engine has not been torn down yet to determine damage.....question, this engine builder has rebuilt my 57 and 63 motors recently, and said you need zink additive, I am ready for an oil change.......do i need a zink additive for these old engines with new type oil?? If so why, and why have I not heard that this is needed with the new oils. thanks Mike

ren

I suggest that you do a search in this forum re: zinc. additives. In my opinion, zinc is definately needed. I've been using ZDDP plus for a few years.

CWPASADENA

Be VERY careful with what oil you use. It is my understanding, MOST of the oils made for current modern day engines have had most of the Zink removed so it does not harm the catalitic convertor. There are a few of the peterolum based oils that still have zink in them but these are usually sold at speed shops or specialty stores. I also understand some oil is now being packaged specifically for "Classic Cars" that have zink in them.

Be very careful and do your homework. I have heard of too many engines being ruined by the "New" oils without zink. I also use ZDDP additive and have been told, it is very good.

Chris, CWPASADENA

rongold

You definitely need Zinc and phosphorous in engines with flat tappet cams (non-roller). Any diesel motor oil rated CI-4 still has plenty of zinc and other anti-wear additives in it. Walmart still has their own brand of diesel motor oil. It's called their Universal Motor Oil and it is rated CI-4. It comes in 15W-40 weight. I've been using it for years and I have no problems.

RON

mrruffhouser

This is excellent info. I would add several additions to this. One, Make sure you use the,"older engine Rotella and not the new Rotella designed for, "new" engines as the zinc and phoshorous levels have been reduced, just like conventional oils. Two, make sure you do not use any oil with the, "sunburst" logo on it as it dosen't contain enough zinc and phoshorous. Last, use Brad Penn break in oil on a new rebuild and then use their 20-50W. You will not look back.

jdk971

your mechanic should of put that break in paste on the lopes of the cam
and lifters when assembled, if it is a flat tappet cam. that is why a lot
of engines are going over to roller type cams. also brad penn racing oil
is good for zinc. jim

ps i am sure this thread will get a lot of fur flying.

rustylugnuts

What make of oil & weight did he use? What type of camshaft is he using? Did he idle the engine for long periods of time? What is the camshaft lift? What type of valve springs is he using. These answers can help you immensely.

rustylugnuts

JohnZ

Well, I'll add my two cents. With a fresh rebuild and new stock flat-tappet cam and valvetrain, in addition to the assembly lube/paste on the cam and lifter feet, you need a bottle of GM EOS and a CI-4 or CJ-4 oil (like Rotella T), and after cam break-in, just the Rotella (1200ppm zinc/phos) will work fine and protect the cam and lifters.

If you have an aftermarket flat-tappet cam and Gonzo valve springs, all bets are off, and you need an additive.

67vetteal

Here is a great research site:http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php
Al W.

Mr D.

Ok, I'll add my two cents also. I have rebuilt many chevy engines both SB and BB over the years using both old (back in the day) and new (as of yesterday) oil.

I have never, let me repeat, never wiped a cam lobe on start up or break in.

Avispa

Thought fellow C1 and C2 members would find the following interesting:

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti..._additves.aspx

It seems even Rotella T and Delo 400 aren't enough these days for flat tappet cams. Note that all the discussion is irrelevant to roller cam engines. These work perfectly well with "starburst logo" (APL service ML) motor oils.

michael m baily

Thanks guys for all the helpful replys, looks like my old engine builder knew what he was talking about, my firiend just made a mistake and knew he should but forgot to put in the zink product you have mentioned. Where can I buy that product, I'll get some today and put it in all my oil changes in the future, again thanks for the help, you may have saved me an engine rebuild.

I talked to my rebuilder yesterday and he yold me that I needed the zink, and he advised me of that ,guess I forgot, or did not realize the importance of using it in our older engines.
thanks Mike

aaronz28

i bet you aren't running the "latest and greatest" cam designs then either.

the problem really is an issue when guys run "over the top" spring pressures and cams that essentially have "roller profiles' with flat tappets.

if you are rebuilding using GM grinds and springs, and good conventional oil, then I wouldn't expect any failure. I've broken in 4 cams this year, on conventional oil and abottle of EOS, and have had zero issues....

Guys who try to break in these new "voodoo" or XE cams on Mobil 1 are almost guaranteed to have a wiped cam.

The lack of Zinc in the oil is the issue.

A

drewdog66vette

yes, you need it.... no one at any auto store or anywhere other than here will tell you why..... you can blame the EPA, they mandated the removal of zinc because it was getting into exhaust and into air.... how much? i really dont know.... but this supreme decision cost me a cam lobe and a rebuild..... they just took it out..... no word, no warning, no anything.... however, i SHOULD have known better, but you get busy and forget to check every damn thing..... it really pisses me off, but it is what it is...... i hope you are ok.... you should be... maybe it was something else and minor.....oh, yea, it was mobil 1..... last time for me....

6T7L71CPE

I was in O'Reilly's to get 4 Runner brake pads. So I asked the younger guy what oil they recommended for older engines, noting the decrease in Zinc issue. "Oh, we have stuff that'll clean that out of old engines". So I explained again about the zinc. He asked the older guy, never heard of it either. They both looked at me like I was smokin' Crack.

CWPASADENA

Luckly, I have a good old Speed Shop right down the street where I can buy ZDDP and EOS. You may also try a shop that works on High Performance Engines or if you have a shop in your area that does repairs on the older Corvettes or other Muscle Cars. I am also sure you can buy it on line. EOS should also be available from a GM Dealer (if you can find any that are still in business).



Chris, CWPASADENA

GCD1962

John - It's ok to break in with lighter single springs then re-install the heavys? right?

GCD1962

The "new" GM EOS is designed for the newer engine. GM dropped EOS a couple of years ago, then re-introduced it under a new part #. Use the "old" EOS is you can find any around.

mayordaly

Look up ZZDP on line, you'll find some places that will ship it to you, Last time I got a 10pac for less then $90 with shipping (no Tax for CA.). 1 per oil fill will last you a while.

Sky65

I just bought some of this at the recommendation of a local machine shop. I haven't used it yet. It was a leap of faith the oil has what it needs for flat tappet cams as the web site says it does.

http://bradpennracing.com/Zinc.html