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Old 06-17-2009, 07:06 PM   #1
Scott333
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Default Power Steering Conversion for 1967 small block

I was just about set to order the Jeep Steering box that Lou and Silverslashstreak and many others here have reported on in great detail when I saw the Borgeson Thread:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...onversion.html


I then found the following unit offered at Eckler's:
http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?p...dept%5Fid=1838


Does anyone know what the Eckler's product is (I'm guessing they are re-selling someone else's product, but I don't know...)?

Has anyone actually used the Borgeson power steering box on a midyear Corvette yet?


I've been leaning toward the Jeep box for a long time now, given the positive reports and a 'don't fix it if it ain't broke' perspective, but if I understand right, the Borgeson is a GM product?

Is Eckler's just packaging the Borgeson power steering box, or is it a different product?

Any thoughts or information is greatly appreciated, as always!

Last edited by Scott333; 06-17-2009 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 06-18-2009, 01:09 PM   #2
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Old 06-18-2009, 01:23 PM   #3
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Why not put OEM, PS in your car? The Components are easily obtained and work just fine. Probably not as expensive either. I did it to my 67 years ago with excellent results. The Components are the same from 64-82. (or so.). Al W.
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Old 06-18-2009, 03:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67vetteal View Post
Why not put OEM, PS in your car? The Components are easily obtained and work just fine. Probably not as expensive either. I did it to my 67 years ago with excellent results. The Components are the same from 64-82. (or so.). Al W.
my guess would be that the OEM slave cylinder type steering is not as 'positive' as a power box.
Bill
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Old 06-18-2009, 03:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmf62 View Post
my guess would be that the OEM slave cylinder type steering is not as 'positive' as a power box.
Bill
My 66 came with the stock PS, I converted it to the Jeep box which made a huge difference to the feel/drivability of the car. One of best changes I ever made.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgeson View Post
Our box is a remanufactured GM Delphi 600 production power steering gear that has been adapted / machined to be a direct bolt in for the Corvettes. The only modification required is to shorten the factory column, in your 67 this would be accomplished by collapsing the factory column shaft 1-2". Our box is being re-sold by different dealers. We are the manufacturer. Feel free to post up any more questions and I will answer them as soon as time permits.

Thanks, Jeff
Jeff,

What are you offering to CF members? Any kind of discount? I may take on the project this fall since I want to drive during the summer months. Is the box similar to the Jeep box that all rant and rave about?
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussi-66 View Post
My 66 came with the stock PS, I converted it to the Jeep box which made a huge difference to the feel/drivability of the car. One of best changes I ever made.
Same here, upgraded my PS to the corvette steering box, best upgrade I have done........
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67vetteal View Post
Why not put OEM, PS in your car? The Components are easily obtained and work just fine. Probably not as expensive either. I did it to my 67 years ago with excellent results. The Components are the same from 64-82. (or so.). Al W.
Al:

Because, having owned and driven both, the factory PS is slower in ratio, less responsive than the power box and you get rid of all that KRAP hanging below your car and subject to leaking.

When you went from manual to factory PS you felt the great difference. Now if you stepped up to the full power box vs the power assisted factory system you would again feel the great positive difference.

Rich
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Old 06-18-2009, 11:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgeson View Post
Our box is a remanufactured GM Delphi 600 production power steering gear that has been adapted / machined to be a direct bolt in for the Corvettes. The only modification required is to shorten the factory column, in your 67 this would be accomplished by collapsing the factory column shaft 1-2". Our box is being re-sold by different dealers. We are the manufacturer. Feel free to post up any more questions and I will answer them as soon as time permits.

Thanks, Jeff
Hey Jeff, I have only seen your box in pictures, but it looks very good, something the c2 - c3 chassis has need for a long time. Can you tell us how many turns lock to lock your box is?

Jeff
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shft22 View Post
Same here, upgraded my PS to the corvette steering box, best upgrade I have done........
Okay, I read this thread and am thoroughly confused. I was under the impression that there were two options, stock, or Jeep box. The Jeep box offers better road feel, similar to manual at speed. It sounds like Borgeson is adapting a GM Delphi 600 unit to fit our Vettes as well. Yes I am aware another option is rack and pinion, but these options are less expensive and less intrusive to add.

Does the Borgeson feel more like stock or Jeep? What's the advantage?

What is the "corvette steering box"? Is it stock, Jeep, Borgeson, or something else?
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgeson View Post
Our box is a remanufactured GM Delphi 600 production power steering gear that has been adapted / machined to be a direct bolt in for the Corvettes. The only modification required is to shorten the factory column, in your 67 this would be accomplished by collapsing the factory column shaft 1-2". Our box is being re-sold by different dealers. We are the manufacturer. Feel free to post up any more questions and I will answer them as soon as time permits.

Thanks, Jeff
Hello Jeff.

Is PN 999016 the correct conversion kit for a manual 1964. Everything is included?

Thanks

Jim
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:37 PM   #12
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I’m glad this Thread was revived, hopefully someone can help clarify this situation.

I have read many Threads on this subject by Jeff Montgomery (a.k.a. SilverSlashStreak) and others. Then I found what appears to be a nearly identical product (by the same manufacturer?) but which appears to be designed/modified specifically for 63-67 Corvettes, by Borgeson.

Jeff has also mentioned this new box by Borgeson, but I didn’t find any follow-ups:
“This may be a better option now, I just read that Borgeson has designed a replacement box using the Delphi 500 box as a base and they made it a direct bolt up box with no adapting required. Looks good on paper.” (Post 23, http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...my-67-a-2.html)



I’m trying to determine whether to go with the JEEP-BOX that many people here have already used, or whether to go with what might otherwise be called the “newer Jeep-box” that appears to be designed specifically for installation in midyear Corvettes, and has 3 steering ratio options.

The Borgeson catalog shows three “models”, the “NASCAR Gear” appears to be the “right” one:
http://www.who-sells-it.com/cy/borge...9/page-15.html


New 600 Series “NASCAR” Gear
We now offer the “New Generation” 600 series steering gear from Delphi
Saginaw. This gear is a new design, which is lighter, stronger and more
durable than its older brother, the 700 gear. It is available with a 16:1, 14:1 or
12.7:1 ratio
. The gear has a 3/4" diameter spline for easy hook up, the same
output spline and the same mounting pad bolt pattern as a 700 gear. The
mounting pattern accommodates both 3 bolt “triangle” pattern and the more
common 3 bolt “L” shape and standard 4 bolt. Please call for more details.
The 600 gear is 5 pounds lighter than a 700 gear
and has been approved by NASCAR.


QUESTION: Is this “600 Series NASCAR Gear” is essentially the SAME PRODUCT as the “Jeep-Box” that is widely recommended here on the Corvette Forum (i.e., same manufacturer, same “series”, same design, etc.) BUT with the option to choose from a 16:1, 14:1 or 12.7:1 steering ratio? The ONLY complaint I have read about the Jeep-Box from a handling perspective is that the tight 12.7:1 steering ratio (compared to the stock 16:1 C2 steering ratio) can make the car a little “twitchy” at highway speed. If the “600 Series NASCAR Gear” is essentially a “Jeep-Box” with a little slower (14:1 or 16:1) steering ratio, then this issue is resolved.
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:50 PM   #13
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For clarification regarding the difference between the "Concept One" box and the Borgeson box, according to the Borgeson Rep (also named Jeff?) in another Thread here on the Forum:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...teering-2.html

Post 33:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgeson View Post
Concept one box is a brand new Delphi 600 gear using a 3/4-30 input Borgeson is a remanufactured production Delphi 600 gear...

Price...The concept one gear costs more as they modify a brand new 600 gear, Borgeson is a remanufactured production gear...

Header clearance will be the same as the boxes are dimensionally identical.

Power steering pump. Original can be used with either box, or any Saginaw "canned ham" style self contained pump.

Installation should be identical, same basic box design.

Gear used...Both boxes use the Delphi 600 as a starting point.

One other note, the concept one box uses a short sector shaft new 600 gear for the conversion requiring them to weld an extension and replace the sector shaft with a longer one. The production gear we use has a one-piece case with the longer sector shaft to start. This is another thing that affects the price difference.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:55 PM   #14
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Default ConceptOne power steering

I have a 67 BB that needed power steering. I bought the ConceptOne box 14:1 ratio. It wasn't real easy to install but it is a great fit. It was in the Corvette Central catalog (part #562439). I'd buy another one.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:38 AM   #15
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For what it is worth I have been a big proponent of the Jeep conversion for years now, in fact I feel that it is the single best mod you can do for the C2-C3 chassis after over 35 years of modifying them.

I have no direct experience with the Borgeson box, but given the fact that they are using the Delphi 600 system (the one used in the Jeep) and refining it so it is a direct bolt on, that just makes it that much better.


Jeff
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgeson View Post
The "NASCAR" 600 gear is a brand new steering box with the same bolt pattern as the 1965-1999 Saginaw 700 steering gear. It is a direct replacement for the 1965 and newer GM muscle cars that originally were equipped with the Saginaw 700 gear. The NASCAR 600 gear is a short sector shaft box that was never used in a production vehicle and is only available new to the automotive aftermarket. This new box is available in three ratios 12.7:1, 14:1 and 16:1
Hi Jeff, thanks for the replies.

Are you saying the "NASCAR 600" with the selectable steering ratio (12.7:1, 14:1 or 16:1) is NOT a good candidate for use on a 1967 Corvette?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgeson View Post
Our conversion box uses a remanufactured Delphi 600 gear that was used in production vehicles from 1999-2004. This box was originally configured with the longer case and sector shaft making it an ideal candidate for conversions on older vehicles such as the Corvette. The case undergoes significant machining to adapt it to fit the Corvettes. The sector shaft is also machined to fit your original pitman arm.
Is the Jeep-Box also a "Delphi 600 gear"?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgeson View Post
The bottom line is our box is essentially a polished and perfected version of the "Jeep" box that will bolt directly to the frame without any modifications to the car or any separate adapter pieces.

Thanks, Jeff
Does the Borgeson conversion box start out as the "Jeep-Box" before it undergoes significant machining to adapt it for the midyear Corvettes?
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:43 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by jjtoma View Post
Hello Jeff.

Is PN 999016 the correct conversion kit for a manual 1964. Everything is included?

Thanks

Jim
Jeff,

Is pn 999016 in stock now. Wondering about lead time for ordering through dealer network.

Thanks again

Jim
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:51 PM   #18
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NONE of those companies listed has a listing for the conversion kit, let-alone pricing !

Someone please help ?

OOPS, I finally found it at JEGS, by searching "Borgeson 999016" !

Last edited by grumpy55; 08-20-2009 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:05 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by grumpy55 View Post
NONE of those companies listed has a listing for the conversion kit, let-alone pricing !

Someone please help ?

YES they do http://www.summitracing.com/search/?...g-999016&dds=1
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:47 PM   #20
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Jegs-----$864.99
MSRP----$985.00

Last edited by jjtoma; 10-12-2009 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:47 PM
 
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