61 Corvette Racecar?
04-22-2009, 04:57 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
61 Corvette Racecar?
Hi Guys,
I'm trying to do some research on a 'vette, VIN 10867s102294. It appears to have been a Fuelie and had big brakes at one point. Unfortunately, both are no longer with the car. Somebody else also mentioned that because it has some sort of marks/holes on the hood, that it might have been a SCCA racecar. There's no paint on the car, it's all filler and primer.
I realize that the odds of this thing being a racecar are a million to one, but I'd obviously like to find out. I emailed the guys at Corvette Registry of Racecars and am waiting a response.
If anyone has any info or suggestions, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!
I'm trying to do some research on a 'vette, VIN 10867s102294. It appears to have been a Fuelie and had big brakes at one point. Unfortunately, both are no longer with the car. Somebody else also mentioned that because it has some sort of marks/holes on the hood, that it might have been a SCCA racecar. There's no paint on the car, it's all filler and primer.
I realize that the odds of this thing being a racecar are a million to one, but I'd obviously like to find out. I emailed the guys at Corvette Registry of Racecars and am waiting a response.
If anyone has any info or suggestions, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!
04-22-2009, 09:29 PM
#2
Your odds are a lot better than a million to one. 1957 to 1962 Corvettes were very popular race cars from 1957 until the mid to late 60s. My 57 raced in SCCA B Production from 67 until 72 for example.
You could start by posting some pictures of your 1961. A number of guys on this forum can spot little things in pictures that point to a racing history. Thus, pictures of your engine compartment, wheel wells, interior , etc, might reveal clues as to a racing heritage. There are also things you should look for:
1. Evidence of a roll bar. All SCCA race cars need a roll bar starting around 1958 or so. Roll bars came in different configurations - permanently attached or bolt on. So check the frame and body for evidence of a roll bar.
2. Evidence of a windscreen. Most SCCA Corvette racers removed the windshield and installed a windscreen. You might see evidence on the body or under the dash.
3. I don't know off hand the telltale signs that a big brake setup for a 1961 Corvette. You should get a copy of Noland Adams C1 Restoration Guide and check this out. Most big brake setups were raced. If your car is a big brake car, chances are high that your car was road raced.
Chasing the history of a potential race car can be a lot of fun. But it starts with taking pictures and then talking to people. Sending an email to the Corvette Race Car Registry is a very good start. Jan Hyde and Jim Gessner are great guys, and will help you as much as they can.
Russ
You could start by posting some pictures of your 1961. A number of guys on this forum can spot little things in pictures that point to a racing history. Thus, pictures of your engine compartment, wheel wells, interior , etc, might reveal clues as to a racing heritage. There are also things you should look for:
1. Evidence of a roll bar. All SCCA race cars need a roll bar starting around 1958 or so. Roll bars came in different configurations - permanently attached or bolt on. So check the frame and body for evidence of a roll bar.
2. Evidence of a windscreen. Most SCCA Corvette racers removed the windshield and installed a windscreen. You might see evidence on the body or under the dash.
3. I don't know off hand the telltale signs that a big brake setup for a 1961 Corvette. You should get a copy of Noland Adams C1 Restoration Guide and check this out. Most big brake setups were raced. If your car is a big brake car, chances are high that your car was road raced.
Chasing the history of a potential race car can be a lot of fun. But it starts with taking pictures and then talking to people. Sending an email to the Corvette Race Car Registry is a very good start. Jan Hyde and Jim Gessner are great guys, and will help you as much as they can.
Russ
04-22-2009, 10:35 PM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
Your odds are a lot better than a million to one. 1957 to 1962 Corvettes were very popular race cars from 1957 until the mid to late 60s. My 57 raced in SCCA B Production from 67 until 72 for example.
You could start by posting some pictures of your 1961. A number of guys on this forum can spot little things in pictures that point to a racing history. Thus, pictures of your engine compartment, wheel wells, interior , etc, might reveal clues as to a racing heritage. There are also things you should look for:
1. Evidence of a roll bar. All SCCA race cars need a roll bar starting around 1958 or so. Roll bars came in different configurations - permanently attached or bolt on. So check the frame and body for evidence of a roll bar.
2. Evidence of a windscreen. Most SCCA Corvette racers removed the windshield and installed a windscreen. You might see evidence on the body or under the dash.
3. I don't know off hand the telltale signs that a big brake setup for a 1961 Corvette. You should get a copy of Noland Adams C1 Restoration Guide and check this out. Most big brake setups were raced. If your car is a big brake car, chances are high that your car was road raced.
Chasing the history of a potential race car can be a lot of fun. But it starts with taking pictures and then talking to people. Sending an email to the Corvette Race Car Registry is a very good start. Jan Hyde and Jim Gessner are great guys, and will help you as much as they can.
Russ
You could start by posting some pictures of your 1961. A number of guys on this forum can spot little things in pictures that point to a racing history. Thus, pictures of your engine compartment, wheel wells, interior , etc, might reveal clues as to a racing heritage. There are also things you should look for:
1. Evidence of a roll bar. All SCCA race cars need a roll bar starting around 1958 or so. Roll bars came in different configurations - permanently attached or bolt on. So check the frame and body for evidence of a roll bar.
2. Evidence of a windscreen. Most SCCA Corvette racers removed the windshield and installed a windscreen. You might see evidence on the body or under the dash.
3. I don't know off hand the telltale signs that a big brake setup for a 1961 Corvette. You should get a copy of Noland Adams C1 Restoration Guide and check this out. Most big brake setups were raced. If your car is a big brake car, chances are high that your car was road raced.
Chasing the history of a potential race car can be a lot of fun. But it starts with taking pictures and then talking to people. Sending an email to the Corvette Race Car Registry is a very good start. Jan Hyde and Jim Gessner are great guys, and will help you as much as they can.
Russ
Thanks for the insight. I sent an email to Jan and Jim and Wayne. Hopefully I'll hear back from one of them soon. I'll post what pics I have.
1. I can't tell you if it had a rollbar or not. I really don't think so. I'll have to inspect better this week.
2. What is a windscreen? Was it really just a screen, or a smaller glass windshield?
3. I'm almost positive that at some point, the car had big brakes. It's got the larger leaf springs, the weird steering knuckle, and supposedly still has the bigger pads.
Thanks again. The first C1 I own sounds like it will be the most interesting.
dunney
04-22-2009, 11:28 PM
#4
Interesting pics. Thanks.
A couple of your pics catch my eye. Your right rear brake backing plate does not have a wire screen for cooling. Thus, the backing plate is not from a big brake setup. Standard rear brake linings were 1.75 inches wide I believe. Big brake linings were 2 inches in the rear. You had to have the big brake backing plate to use the wider linings. Thus, I bet your rear linings are 1.75 inches. (Front big brakes linings were 2.5 inches for the big brake setup, and 2 inches for standard setups).
One pic really catches my eye - the one showing the right side of the engine compartment:
Do you see the home-made flap that apparently diverts air from the front wheel well back into the engine compartment? I have no idea why that flap would be there. Any guesses????
You have a quick steering adapter, which makes the car more responsive to steering wheel movement. Most C1 racers used this I believe. Some non-racers used this as well however (my never raced 53 Corvette has one on it for example).
There is a circular air opening - maybe 4 inch diameter - on the left side of the radiator. This opening provided fresh air to fuel injection systems. The opening was blocked off on cars with carbs. Looks to me like your opening is blocked off, but I cannot tell for sure.
I also don't see the two holes on the right side where the FI area cleaner should be attached. Those two holes, along with a nut plate riveted to the inner wheel well, is usually a give-away to determining a real FI car.
There are other way to tell a FI car from a carb car. You can do an archive search and fine some useful info.
More pics of the engine compartment and front wheel wells would help.
A windscreen was a plexiglass type small windshield that was just high enough to divert air over the driver or the entire cockpit. Windshields would crack with the pebbles kicked up by racing, and created a wind drag (I am no expect here however). The windscreens wouldn't crack, and created a flow of air over the driver. Here is a pic of my my 57 with a driver's side only windscreen circa late 60s. The C1 chasing my 57 has a full windscreen.
A couple of your pics catch my eye. Your right rear brake backing plate does not have a wire screen for cooling. Thus, the backing plate is not from a big brake setup. Standard rear brake linings were 1.75 inches wide I believe. Big brake linings were 2 inches in the rear. You had to have the big brake backing plate to use the wider linings. Thus, I bet your rear linings are 1.75 inches. (Front big brakes linings were 2.5 inches for the big brake setup, and 2 inches for standard setups).
One pic really catches my eye - the one showing the right side of the engine compartment:
Do you see the home-made flap that apparently diverts air from the front wheel well back into the engine compartment? I have no idea why that flap would be there. Any guesses????
You have a quick steering adapter, which makes the car more responsive to steering wheel movement. Most C1 racers used this I believe. Some non-racers used this as well however (my never raced 53 Corvette has one on it for example).
There is a circular air opening - maybe 4 inch diameter - on the left side of the radiator. This opening provided fresh air to fuel injection systems. The opening was blocked off on cars with carbs. Looks to me like your opening is blocked off, but I cannot tell for sure.
I also don't see the two holes on the right side where the FI area cleaner should be attached. Those two holes, along with a nut plate riveted to the inner wheel well, is usually a give-away to determining a real FI car.
There are other way to tell a FI car from a carb car. You can do an archive search and fine some useful info.
More pics of the engine compartment and front wheel wells would help.
A windscreen was a plexiglass type small windshield that was just high enough to divert air over the driver or the entire cockpit. Windshields would crack with the pebbles kicked up by racing, and created a wind drag (I am no expect here however). The windscreens wouldn't crack, and created a flow of air over the driver. Here is a pic of my my 57 with a driver's side only windscreen circa late 60s. The C1 chasing my 57 has a full windscreen.
Last edited by YesA59; 04-24-2009 at 03:36 PM.
04-22-2009, 11:38 PM
#5
Racer
Thread Starter
That's your 57?! That is awesome!!!!
I will try to get more engine compartment pics, but it is raining like a bastard here. Thanks for all your help though. And post me a pic of your car, as it is NOW. I would love to see what they look like in their retirement.
I will try to get more engine compartment pics, but it is raining like a bastard here. Thanks for all your help though. And post me a pic of your car, as it is NOW. I would love to see what they look like in their retirement.
04-23-2009, 09:53 AM
#7
Drifting
looks like a FI used to reside there
Right side pan is a heat shield for the wiper resevoir only found on FI cars. Also looks like holes for the air cleaner in the photo showing the left inner fender.
04-23-2009, 10:33 AM
#8
Safety Car
Hi Dunney,
I have been thinking on your car. First off, vin 2294 was made October 31, 1960, so it is an early car and very well could have been used in racing events.
Your car appears to be a real fuel injection car. One of the big give aways that are almost always missing is the washer bottle heat shield on the right passenger side frame you show in the photo. Fuel cars has the washer bottle assembly moved from driver side to passenger side to accomodate the FI Air Cleaner.
I can barely see the rivit plate on the driver side fender lip, but it is there, just look close. There is a 2x3/4" plate with threads bonded into the inner fender at the factory to hold the air cleaner screws.
All in all, you have made a home run here with your purchase. It appears to be a very nice jewel blue / jewel blue fuel injection Corvette project. And only 855 cars were painted that color.
Now the best part. I doubt very seriously the car was ever raced. Why? The body is to original. Race cars were beat up hard. I see some front damage has been repaired, but not major.
I also see a California tag on the car. Where did it come from? Who did you buy it from?
When we trace history, it is best by ownership chain. The photos from the era help identify the car, especially damage repair on a body being restored. The two 1960 LeMans race cars that have been found were both identified by damage on the original bodies matched to race history accidents that were recorded with photos.
So, next time you look at your car, climb under the dash and see if there is any evidance of holes for a windscreen mounting. Take the seats out and look behind them on the floor and see if there is any patched holes in the corners behind the seats area where a roll bar would have been mounted.
That heat shield though is a dead give away. It would have the first thing thrown away. That and the windshild washer system.
I have been thinking on your car. First off, vin 2294 was made October 31, 1960, so it is an early car and very well could have been used in racing events.
Your car appears to be a real fuel injection car. One of the big give aways that are almost always missing is the washer bottle heat shield on the right passenger side frame you show in the photo. Fuel cars has the washer bottle assembly moved from driver side to passenger side to accomodate the FI Air Cleaner.
I can barely see the rivit plate on the driver side fender lip, but it is there, just look close. There is a 2x3/4" plate with threads bonded into the inner fender at the factory to hold the air cleaner screws.
All in all, you have made a home run here with your purchase. It appears to be a very nice jewel blue / jewel blue fuel injection Corvette project. And only 855 cars were painted that color.
Now the best part. I doubt very seriously the car was ever raced. Why? The body is to original. Race cars were beat up hard. I see some front damage has been repaired, but not major.
I also see a California tag on the car. Where did it come from? Who did you buy it from?
When we trace history, it is best by ownership chain. The photos from the era help identify the car, especially damage repair on a body being restored. The two 1960 LeMans race cars that have been found were both identified by damage on the original bodies matched to race history accidents that were recorded with photos.
So, next time you look at your car, climb under the dash and see if there is any evidance of holes for a windscreen mounting. Take the seats out and look behind them on the floor and see if there is any patched holes in the corners behind the seats area where a roll bar would have been mounted.
That heat shield though is a dead give away. It would have the first thing thrown away. That and the windshild washer system.
04-23-2009, 10:48 AM
#9
Drifting
Hi Dunney,
I have been thinking on your car. First off, vin 2294 was made October 31, 1960, so it is an early car and very well could have been used in racing events.
All in all, you have made a home run here with your purchase. It appears to be a very nice jewel blue / jewel blue fuel injection Corvette project. And only 855 cars were painted that color.
Now the best part. I doubt very seriously the car was ever raced. Why? The body is to original. Race cars were beat up hard. I see some front damage has been repaired, but not major.
I have been thinking on your car. First off, vin 2294 was made October 31, 1960, so it is an early car and very well could have been used in racing events.
All in all, you have made a home run here with your purchase. It appears to be a very nice jewel blue / jewel blue fuel injection Corvette project. And only 855 cars were painted that color.
Now the best part. I doubt very seriously the car was ever raced. Why? The body is to original. Race cars were beat up hard. I see some front damage has been repaired, but not major.
04-23-2009, 11:26 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
This may sound a little nuts but what I learned in researching the history of a 63 ZO6 I once owned was. Its easier to prove what it isn't that what it is! Start eliminating the cars that you know it was not. Eliminate the colors, options, engine trans combo's and this will narrow your search down to fewer cars. Sounds nuts but it makes your search much smaller.
Here is a picture of a early wind screen.
Good luck.
Bill
Here is a picture of a early wind screen.
Good luck.
Bill
04-23-2009, 01:21 PM
#11
Racer
Thread Starter
OMG, thanks for all the assistance. Now I have more questions than answers!
Where did you see the California tag? I believe the title I have for the car is from Ohio. Thanks for the pic of the windscreen. I will really have to get a flashlight and dig all around the car to find out what else it is and isn't isn't. Thank you all again!
Also, Russ is that you behind the wheel? The car looks GREAT.
Where did you see the California tag? I believe the title I have for the car is from Ohio. Thanks for the pic of the windscreen. I will really have to get a flashlight and dig all around the car to find out what else it is and isn't isn't. Thank you all again!
Also, Russ is that you behind the wheel? The car looks GREAT.
04-23-2009, 10:36 PM
#12
Yeah, that's me behind the wheel at Sears Point.
You have received some great advice from some very seasoned veterans. I am just a wannabe compared to some of the guys who have weighed in to help you. After looking more closely, like the others I now see the holes for the FI air cleaner. Congratulations!!! You probably have a real deal FI car.
Digging up the history of a car can be a multi-year effort. Just stay with it. The history is out there - you just have to figure out a way to access it.
Russ
You have received some great advice from some very seasoned veterans. I am just a wannabe compared to some of the guys who have weighed in to help you. After looking more closely, like the others I now see the holes for the FI air cleaner. Congratulations!!! You probably have a real deal FI car.
Digging up the history of a car can be a multi-year effort. Just stay with it. The history is out there - you just have to figure out a way to access it.
Russ
04-23-2009, 11:26 PM
#13
Racer
Thread Starter
Hey Russ, thanks again to you, and everyone that replied, for all their efforts. It is just one of the reasons why this is one of the best sites on the net.
Jim, from the Registry of Corvette Racecars, called me tonight, and we had a long talk. He is a super-awesome guy to talk to, and is by far one of those guys that has forgotten more about Corvettes than I will ever know.
I am going to try to do my best to figure what we will have to do to return the car to it's original glory.
Jim, from the Registry of Corvette Racecars, called me tonight, and we had a long talk. He is a super-awesome guy to talk to, and is by far one of those guys that has forgotten more about Corvettes than I will ever know.
I am going to try to do my best to figure what we will have to do to return the car to it's original glory.
04-24-2009, 02:10 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
The hole in the center of the firewall is for distributor driven tach cable which goes with the rest of the evidence of fuelie origin. Copper radiator must have been a replacement as I believe all fuelies came with the aluminum radiator. What is the serial number on the steering column?
04-24-2009, 12:45 PM
#15
Safety Car
You might be correct Bill
A local doctor (Manitowoc, Wisconsin) purchased new and raced a jewel blue 61 in SCCA events back in the early 60s. When he traded the car to the local Chevrolet dealer (I think it was in '63) a friend and I tried out the car. We were quite impressed with it but neither could afford it. After being raced since new, there was no damage to the car (or if there was, it had been repaired) and I had never heard of the car being damaged.
James said he has most of the trim and chrome and bumpers. No top, No engine or accessories. He has a 61 T-10 trans, but not the original.
It would be a fun car to restore, but even in this economy, the cost will out weight the end value
04-25-2009, 08:51 AM
#17
Gr8Corvette
I am not trying to hijack this thread, but who are Jan and Jim, and what info do they have that is not on the C1 registry?
Allan (a.k.a. Gr8Corvette)
04-25-2009, 10:48 AM
#18
Jan and Jim are long-time Corvette race car enthusiasts (and great guys to boot). They are interested in documenting and preserving the racing history of Corvettes. Which is a good thing, because so many of the Corvettes that raced back in the day have been restored to destroyed, with their racing history lost forever.
Jan Hyde, Jim Gessner and Wayne Elwood created the Corvette Race Car Registry to collect and preserve the racing history of Corvette race cars. The website is down for some reason at this very moment. But the guys have put a lot of work into this, and it shows.
Jim has a separate website that is pretty interesting to look at as well. Jim brokers mainly C1s and C2s, and comes across some very interesting cars. Jim helped me buy my 57 race car that you see in this thread, for example, putting together a deal fair to both buyer and seller. Here is Jim's website: VettefinderJim
Russ
04-25-2009, 11:41 AM
#19
I surely can't be the only one who sees the evedence of Fuel Injection holes filled in on the right side fender, am I? I may have missed it in a previous reply.
Great purchase. Russ knows his stuff!
Great purchase. Russ knows his stuff!
04-27-2009, 02:24 PM
#20
Racer
Thread Starter
Again, thanks to Russ and Jim (great website) and everybody for chiming in. And yes, all lurkers welcome!
The response to this has been overwhelming, and it is very clear to me now, that we are in way over our heads.
As much as I love this car, there is no way I will be able to give it the time (or money) it deserves. I'm going to post it in the "For Sale" section later today. If someone wants to call and and ask about it, feel free. My cell is (617) 233-9591.
Thanks again to all. You guys are great.
The response to this has been overwhelming, and it is very clear to me now, that we are in way over our heads.
As much as I love this car, there is no way I will be able to give it the time (or money) it deserves. I'm going to post it in the "For Sale" section later today. If someone wants to call and and ask about it, feel free. My cell is (617) 233-9591.
Thanks again to all. You guys are great.