Plastic Pig

How is this any different from going to the junkyard, finding an appropriate block, grinding the VIN and ID numbers off, and then re-stamping it ?

Either way you're removing and changing a VIN number.

61 vert

"How is this any different from going to the junkyard, finding an appropriate block, grinding the VIN and ID numbers off, and then re-stamping it ?"


That would be illegal if done as part of a fraudulent action.For instance, if the car was then represented as original motor.The problem is that it is so hard to control the actions of the next owner and on down the line, and there are many unscrupulous people out there that have ruined it for the collectors and the hobbyists.The government just takes a aggressive stance and doesn't want to let any changing be done.

I do not think that the engine VIN should be used for identification and titleing purposes. Frame #-yes, VIN tag-yes, Hidden VIN-yes, block #-no. It has gotten to the point that when looking at cars I assume that all have restamped blocks unless documented otherwise, and thats a little tough to do.

Do you think that restamping a motor should be illegal?

Plastic Pig

I think people involved in re-stamping under the guise of "restoration" are the lowest form of scum on the earth. The Bernie Madoff's of the hobby. I often wonder if their willingness to deceive carries over into their personal lives as well.


I don't really care anymore. There is so much fraud on so many levels in this hobby, what difference does it make at this point. I just find it ironic that the same people endorsing re-stamping are poo-pooing a guy re-stamping a VIN tag.

B. Nicely

"I just find it ironic that the same people endorsing re-stamping are poo-pooing a guy re-stamping a VIN tag. "

Thank you for this thought. My engine number is CE4N32845, has been for 40 years, and will remain so. My VIN number is 20867S10**** on my frame and on my steering column, has been for 40 years, and will remain so.

ctjackster

comment: I admire that sort of post, B. Nicely, although I'd go the extra four digits and thus be completely honest (as in searchable later on honest) about the car associated with that VIN. No disrespect meant, at all.

my car's VIN - 194675S114316 - that's a 65 Corvette, with added sidepipes, added Western Wheel KOs, and, among other things, all of the wiring is not original (this I know since I replaced it myself).

B. Nicely

I admire your honesty. 20867S109623. 1962 everything original and working except exhaust and washers.

ctjackster

right back at ya

emccomas

I am not sure whether it SHOULD be illegal, but it definitely IS illegal in many states. Ther fact that the federal law (18 USC 511) doesn't specifically make it illegal does not mean that it is legal. The federal law states "in accordance with applicable state laws". Many state laws make it illegal to remove or alter the VIN number on any auto part.

B. Nicely

I have heard this but I have yet to see a state law that contradicts the federal law which allows reasonable replacement of VIN tags.

lovevettes

After reading all these posts about VIN tags ---I have a recommendation to all of you that have a VIN tag spot welded on your steering column- DO NOT TRUST THOSE WELDS , my tag had a cracked weld on one side of the tag on my '60 , luckily I saw it. I put a all stainless steel [ from lowes] hose clamp on each side of the tag so I won't loose it. Makes my hair stand up on my neck just thinking about that cracked weld. Unless you have owned your car since new , you have no idea what physical abuse that tag went through. I am the eighth owner of my car. It could have been touched everytime the plugs were changed. Could have been touched by a body off restoration. Or it could be dissimilar metals that contract and expand at different rates . Some of these cars sat outside when new. After 49 years that car has a lot of stories to tell. Look at the red tape envolved to get a replacement.

emccomas

Here is an excerpt from the Code of Alabama. You can Google Code of Alabama to get the full text. And Alabama is one of the more lenient states. I would check your state laws CAREFULLY, and I would STOP TALKING ABOUT IT. Got to figure that some people who visit the Forum are also in the law enforcement business.

Section 32-8-86
Removed, falsified or unauthorized identification number, registration or license plate; seizure of vehicle, part, etc., when number altered, etc.; disposition of forfeited property.
(a) A person who willfully removes or falsifies an identification number of a vehicle, engine, transmission or other identifiable component part of a vehicle is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor and shall be punished as required by law.

(b) A person who, willfully and with intent to conceal or misrepresent the identity of a vehicle, engine, transmission or other identifiable component part of a vehicle or removes or falsifies an identification number of the same is guilty of a Class C felony and shall be punished as required by law.

(c) A person who buys, receives, possesses, sells or disposes of a vehicle, or an engine, transmission or other identifiable component part of a vehicle, knowing that an identification number of the same has been removed or falsified, is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor and shall be punished as required by law.

(d) A person who buys, receives, possesses, sells or disposes of a vehicle, engine, transmission or other identifiable component part of a vehicle, with knowledge that an identification number of same has been removed or falsified and with intent to conceal or misrepresent the identity of same is guilty of a Class C felony and shall be punished as required by law.

(e) A person who removes a license plate or tag from a vehicle or affixes to a vehicle a license plate or tag not authorized by law for use on it, in either case with intent to conceal or misrepresent the identity of a vehicle or its owner, is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor and shall be punished as required by law.

B. Nicely

Let me see now: Section 32-8-86
(a) Not guilty---I didn't remove it.
(b) Not guilty---No intent
(c) Not guilty---I don't know when it fell off
(d) Not guilty---No intent
(e) Not guilty---No intent
But I do think I will shut up and quit talking about it.