65 coupe windshield installation
10-01-2008, 05:20 PM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
65 coupe windshield installation
Guys,
I know this has been discussed many times but I just want to get it straight. The previous installation was to just put the rubber on then lay it in the frame.
I bought the bedding and glazing compound and the crack sealer. I assume you put the bedding compound on the frame then set the window in with the rubber. After it has set then you put the crack sealer on. My question is exactly where to apply the crack sealer. In between the glass and the rubber or in the cracks.
Please clarify the process of sealing after the windshield is set into the frame.
Thanks
Larry
I know this has been discussed many times but I just want to get it straight. The previous installation was to just put the rubber on then lay it in the frame.
I bought the bedding and glazing compound and the crack sealer. I assume you put the bedding compound on the frame then set the window in with the rubber. After it has set then you put the crack sealer on. My question is exactly where to apply the crack sealer. In between the glass and the rubber or in the cracks.
Please clarify the process of sealing after the windshield is set into the frame.
Thanks
Larry
10-01-2008, 06:43 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
I don't know how others did it but I just did my 66 (4th time) and finally found a way to seal it.
I set the glass in the rubber, then I took the 3M sealant (setting glaze) and laid a bead of that in the channel where the rubber sits on the birdcage frame. I set the W/S into the opening as close to square as I could. I used a sharp tool (I ground the tip off of a KD cotter pin removal tool so it did not jab the rubber) with a 90 degree bend and I pulled the rubber lip into the windshield opening. You have to go slow and it will take a while. Have someone there to put pressure on the W/S as you do this.
I then water tested it. It leaked in the upper right hand corner. From the interior of the car, I pulled the seal away from the inside flange and added some sealant in that area. That sealed the rubber to body but did not seal the rubber to glass.
I put a band of masking tape that ran along the edge of the W/S rubber on the W/S. You can use blue painters tape, it won't make any difference. I tried to use the wide masking tape so it didn't get all over the W/S. I then laid a bead of 3M 08008 black W/S sealant in the glass channel, with the glass in place, by sliding it under the rubber as far as I could. I only cut a small portion of the tip of the sealant tube off as you don't want to get a lot of extra spread all over the W/S. I rolled the rubber after doing this and some of the sealant oozed out. I let that sit overnight and when I water tested it the next day I finally had a totally sealed W/S.
I then just used a single edge razor blade to clean up the mess from the 08008 by trimming along the rubber where I did not get the tape close enough or got the tape under the rubber.
Hope this helps.
Steve
I set the glass in the rubber, then I took the 3M sealant (setting glaze) and laid a bead of that in the channel where the rubber sits on the birdcage frame. I set the W/S into the opening as close to square as I could. I used a sharp tool (I ground the tip off of a KD cotter pin removal tool so it did not jab the rubber) with a 90 degree bend and I pulled the rubber lip into the windshield opening. You have to go slow and it will take a while. Have someone there to put pressure on the W/S as you do this.
I then water tested it. It leaked in the upper right hand corner. From the interior of the car, I pulled the seal away from the inside flange and added some sealant in that area. That sealed the rubber to body but did not seal the rubber to glass.
I put a band of masking tape that ran along the edge of the W/S rubber on the W/S. You can use blue painters tape, it won't make any difference. I tried to use the wide masking tape so it didn't get all over the W/S. I then laid a bead of 3M 08008 black W/S sealant in the glass channel, with the glass in place, by sliding it under the rubber as far as I could. I only cut a small portion of the tip of the sealant tube off as you don't want to get a lot of extra spread all over the W/S. I rolled the rubber after doing this and some of the sealant oozed out. I let that sit overnight and when I water tested it the next day I finally had a totally sealed W/S.
I then just used a single edge razor blade to clean up the mess from the 08008 by trimming along the rubber where I did not get the tape close enough or got the tape under the rubber.
Hope this helps.
Steve
10-01-2008, 07:45 PM
#3
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info Steve. So when you use the sharp tool to pull the rubber into the channel that means that you did not use the rope method. Am I understanding that you actually pull the rubber back from the windshield and squirt the sealer under the rubber. Did you put any sealer around the outside of the rubber?
thanks,
Larry
thanks,
Larry
10-01-2008, 10:46 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
Thanks for the info Steve. So when you use the sharp tool to pull the rubber into the channel that means that you did not use the rope method. Am I understanding that you actually pull the rubber back from the windshield and squirt the sealer under the rubber. Did you put any sealer around the outside of the rubber?
thanks,
Larry
thanks,
Larry
You are correct. I used the rope method the first three times I tried to set it and all, I mean "all" of them failed.
Not sure what you mean by "actually pull the rubber back from the windshield and squirt sealer under the rubber." Are you referring to the metal framework or the glass portion? No I did not put sealer on the outside at all. Most of the sealant was left between the metal and the rubber when I pulled the rubber into the car with the tool. That was the only way I found to get it sealed. I happened to pull to hard on the upper right corner and that caused most of the sealant to pull in with the interior rubber bead. That was why I had to pull it back and add sealant in that area.
On the rubber to glass, you don't have to pull it back, although it does help. You can simply slip the sharp end of the tube under the rubber and along the base of the channel for the glass. Using a caulking gun you simply just keep equal pressure on the trigger and fill the lower rubber at the bottom of the glass.
Hope I explained it enough for you.
Steve
PS Larry
I had to add to this. The product I used for the glass to rubber was not 08008. That is for use on weatherstrip only. MY ERROR. I used Window Weld, 3M product number 8609. Sorry for the mixup.
Last edited by 66BlkBB; 10-02-2008 at 04:07 AM.
10-01-2008, 11:48 PM
#5
Drifting
I installed and cut glass professionally for 20 years starting in 1972. Steve has got the right idea. The only difference was using a liquid butyl sealer around the glass and around the frame. It stays semi solid and flows into all the cracks around the rubber seal. We would "paddle" it in with plastic sticks. It makes it a lot easier to replace if you ever need to pull the glass for a new seal. Silicone will work if you can paddle it back. Silicone also have acids that can promote rust. The only problem with silicone or for that matter most caulks is that their viscosity makes them a little too thick to seal where it needs to be sealed. Most glass shops will have a small tube of liquid butyl that they might just give to you free of charge. They usually throw the left over tubes/cans away after a re-seal job. I just cut some flat glass for a chopped 32 Ford rat rod that a friend is building. I went to our local glass shop and got enough butyl sealer to do his front and back glass that has a similar rubber gasket set. The guys at the glass shop just gave it to me.
There is a trick to the rope though if you want to use the rope method. Start by using goop hand cleaner and really soap up the rubber. Just the groove that the metal pinch weld will touch. Run the rope starting at the bottom center and bring it around overlapping at the begining point by 3 feet. Set the glass and rubber square in the opening. Have someone or yourself if you have long arms push on the glass as you "lace" it in. We used the tool similar to the tool Steve made to take the glass out. We used to be able to R & R these in about 15 minutes back in the day. We loved to see old midyears come in (I guess they weren't that old in 1972).They were definitly a labor, moneymaker.
There is a trick to the rope though if you want to use the rope method. Start by using goop hand cleaner and really soap up the rubber. Just the groove that the metal pinch weld will touch. Run the rope starting at the bottom center and bring it around overlapping at the begining point by 3 feet. Set the glass and rubber square in the opening. Have someone or yourself if you have long arms push on the glass as you "lace" it in. We used the tool similar to the tool Steve made to take the glass out. We used to be able to R & R these in about 15 minutes back in the day. We loved to see old midyears come in (I guess they weren't that old in 1972).They were definitly a labor, moneymaker.
10-02-2008, 09:31 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
I installed and cut glass professionally for 20 years starting in 1972. Steve has got the right idea. The only difference was using a liquid butyl sealer around the glass and around the frame. It stays semi solid and flows into all the cracks around the rubber seal. We would "paddle" it in with plastic sticks. It makes it a lot easier to replace if you ever need to pull the glass for a new seal. Silicone will work if you can paddle it back. Silicone also have acids that can promote rust. The only problem with silicone or for that matter most caulks is that their viscosity makes them a little too thick to seal where it needs to be sealed. Most glass shops will have a small tube of liquid butyl that they might just give to you free of charge. They usually throw the left over tubes/cans away after a re-seal job. I just cut some flat glass for a chopped 32 Ford rat rod that a friend is building. I went to our local glass shop and got enough butyl sealer to do his front and back glass that has a similar rubber gasket set. The guys at the glass shop just gave it to me.
There is a trick to the rope though if you want to use the rope method. Start by using goop hand cleaner and really soap up the rubber. Just the groove that the metal pinch weld will touch. Run the rope starting at the bottom center and bring it around overlapping at the begining point by 3 feet. Set the glass and rubber square in the opening. Have someone or yourself if you have long arms push on the glass as you "lace" it in. We used the tool similar to the tool Steve made to take the glass out. We used to be able to R & R these in about 15 minutes back in the day. We loved to see old midyears come in (I guess they weren't that old in 1972).They were definitly a labor, moneymaker.
There is a trick to the rope though if you want to use the rope method. Start by using goop hand cleaner and really soap up the rubber. Just the groove that the metal pinch weld will touch. Run the rope starting at the bottom center and bring it around overlapping at the begining point by 3 feet. Set the glass and rubber square in the opening. Have someone or yourself if you have long arms push on the glass as you "lace" it in. We used the tool similar to the tool Steve made to take the glass out. We used to be able to R & R these in about 15 minutes back in the day. We loved to see old midyears come in (I guess they weren't that old in 1972).They were definitly a labor, moneymaker.
The setting glaze that he is using will not harden like silicone. It stays pliable. That stuff works really well and does fill in where it is needed. My problem was that I got careless and when I pulled the rubber in I slid the tool along the groove and pulled most of the setting glaze in with it. No seal in that area.
I only used the silicone around the W/S glass to rubber. I know it hardens but I wanted something that would fill the area and stop the minor leaks that was getting through the glass to rubber seal area. I rolled the seal with a rachet and socket to press out the extra and the make sure the silicone had reached the bottom of the groove to fill it in.
This was just my way of doing it. Got tired of trying it the recommended way and it never worked for me.
Steve
PS By the way your buddy's 32 must be a fiberglass unit. Mine doesn't have any type of seal for the rear glass or the windshield that requires any type of silicone for sealing them. I don't mean to dis his car at all. There are some really nice glass units out there. It is just the difference between the steel body and the glass unit.
Last edited by 66BlkBB; 10-02-2008 at 09:39 AM.
10-05-2008, 09:45 AM
#7
Drifting
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The setting glaze that he is using will not harden like silicone. It stays pliable. That stuff works really well and does fill in where it is needed. My problem was that I got careless and when I pulled the rubber in I slid the tool along the groove and pulled most of the setting glaze in with it. No seal in that area.
I only used the silicone around the W/S glass to rubber. I know it hardens but I wanted something that would fill the area and stop the minor leaks that was getting through the glass to rubber seal area. I rolled the seal with a rachet and socket to press out the extra and the make sure the silicone had reached the bottom of the groove to fill it in.
This was just my way of doing it. Got tired of trying it the recommended way and it never worked for me.
Steve
PS By the way your buddy's 32 must be a fiberglass unit. Mine doesn't have any type of seal for the rear glass or the windshield that requires any type of silicone for sealing them. I don't mean to dis his car at all. There are some really nice glass units out there. It is just the difference between the steel body and the glass unit.
The setting glaze that he is using will not harden like silicone. It stays pliable. That stuff works really well and does fill in where it is needed. My problem was that I got careless and when I pulled the rubber in I slid the tool along the groove and pulled most of the setting glaze in with it. No seal in that area.
I only used the silicone around the W/S glass to rubber. I know it hardens but I wanted something that would fill the area and stop the minor leaks that was getting through the glass to rubber seal area. I rolled the seal with a rachet and socket to press out the extra and the make sure the silicone had reached the bottom of the groove to fill it in.
This was just my way of doing it. Got tired of trying it the recommended way and it never worked for me.
Steve
PS By the way your buddy's 32 must be a fiberglass unit. Mine doesn't have any type of seal for the rear glass or the windshield that requires any type of silicone for sealing them. I don't mean to dis his car at all. There are some really nice glass units out there. It is just the difference between the steel body and the glass unit.
Steve,
The 3m glaze is similar to a butyl filler we used in the shop.
We didn't use silicone at all. In the auto glass business we used to cringe when we saw a vehicle come in that someone tried to seal with silicone.
Silicone by nature will not stick to the rubber gasket because the gasket has a slight liquid silicone coating from the manufacturer ( they use to use parrafin). That is why a new gasket feels "greasy". Capillary action will actually draw water into the the area were it is used because there is a microscopic air space between the silicone and the rubber after curing. Try to put a bead of silicone on a piece of rubber and you can pull it off when it is dry.
My friends "rat rod" is an all steel body. I watched him chop the car. He fabricates his own chrome reveal molding as well. Every piece of glass on the car had to be custom cut. On rat rods and a lot of customs, you urethane the glass to the pinch weld then screw apply or clip the chrome over the top. I have done 50 or more of his customs (all steel). Some I have to fabricate rubber and some we urethane. Each chop is different, size wise, for obvious reasons. I typically have to cut the glass to a new pattern based on the finshed size of the chop.
You must have a stock 32 with a stock glass set.
Many of the sizes and shapes of a finished opening on customs are so different than stock you have to cut the glass from patterns. That is why we use a urethane set and custom glass sizes. Since you can't use a stock rubber or setting materials the urethane has the structural integrity to hold the glass in place.
Last edited by highschool67; 10-05-2008 at 09:51 AM.
10-05-2008, 11:08 AM
#8
Melting Slicks
Steve,
The 3m glaze is similar to a butyl filler we used in the shop.
We didn't use silicone at all. In the auto glass business we used to cringe when we saw a vehicle come in that someone tried to seal with silicone.
Silicone by nature will not stick to the rubber gasket because the gasket has a slight liquid silicone coating from the manufacturer ( they use to use parrafin). That is why a new gasket feels "greasy". Capillary action will actually draw water into the the area were it is used because there is a microscopic air space between the silicone and the rubber after curing. Try to put a bead of silicone on a piece of rubber and you can pull it off when it is dry.
My friends "rat rod" is an all steel body. I watched him chop the car. He fabricates his own chrome reveal molding as well. Every piece of glass on the car had to be custom cut. On rat rods and a lot of customs, you urethane the glass to the pinch weld then screw apply or clip the chrome over the top. I have done 50 or more of his customs (all steel). Some I have to fabricate rubber and some we urethane. Each chop is different, size wise, for obvious reasons. I typically have to cut the glass to a new pattern based on the finshed size of the chop.
You must have a stock 32 with a stock glass set.
Many of the sizes and shapes of a finished opening on customs are so different than stock you have to cut the glass from patterns. That is why we use a urethane set and custom glass sizes. Since you can't use a stock rubber or setting materials the urethane has the structural integrity to hold the glass in place.
The 3m glaze is similar to a butyl filler we used in the shop.
We didn't use silicone at all. In the auto glass business we used to cringe when we saw a vehicle come in that someone tried to seal with silicone.
Silicone by nature will not stick to the rubber gasket because the gasket has a slight liquid silicone coating from the manufacturer ( they use to use parrafin). That is why a new gasket feels "greasy". Capillary action will actually draw water into the the area were it is used because there is a microscopic air space between the silicone and the rubber after curing. Try to put a bead of silicone on a piece of rubber and you can pull it off when it is dry.
My friends "rat rod" is an all steel body. I watched him chop the car. He fabricates his own chrome reveal molding as well. Every piece of glass on the car had to be custom cut. On rat rods and a lot of customs, you urethane the glass to the pinch weld then screw apply or clip the chrome over the top. I have done 50 or more of his customs (all steel). Some I have to fabricate rubber and some we urethane. Each chop is different, size wise, for obvious reasons. I typically have to cut the glass to a new pattern based on the finshed size of the chop.
You must have a stock 32 with a stock glass set.
Many of the sizes and shapes of a finished opening on customs are so different than stock you have to cut the glass from patterns. That is why we use a urethane set and custom glass sizes. Since you can't use a stock rubber or setting materials the urethane has the structural integrity to hold the glass in place.
My putting the silicone between the rubber and the glass was simply to fill a void that I was have problems with. I would get seeping water coming for the glass channel and I wanted to eliminate that. I'll let the next worry about resetting the glass in the car, that is when I get rid of the car.
Yes, my car is an original 32 body. Your friend must do some really fine work to accomplish getting a true lip to seal the glass with just the rubber for the W/S and rear glass. That must really look awesome when done. I like the looks of a set glass rather than the old metal frame that I have. I have been contemplating painting mine the color of the car but will have to find a steel unit to do that. Mine is an aluminum repro unit and shows stone hits, etc.
Steve
