I really, really hate frickin PayPal
09-24-2008, 10:31 AM
#21
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ebay/paypal side
I'm going to have to take the ebay/paypal side. I run an online record business and sell mainly overseas. I've been on ebay for over 10 years and started using paypal when they began. I've had a few problems over the years but nothing compaired to the many lost payments through the mail from overseas. (these were cash). I like the idea that the payment goes right into my savings account and I can use it to pay for the things I buy off the internet, so I guess it's all in what you use ebay and paypal for. For us that use ebay daily, it is stil lthe best auction/goods site to get "stuff" on the internet. JMHO 
09-24-2008, 11:29 AM
#22
Racer
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They have asked me repeatedly to give them my bank account number, and I'm NEVER going to do that.
Years ago it was easy to ignore them. I just told bidders in my eBay auctions that I didn't take PayPal. Some children refused to bid in my auctions, but I didn't give a damn. To hell with the whole e-generation and the e-horse they rode in on.
Then other eBay sellers started refusing to take any payment other than PayPal. I couldn't buy some eBay stuff because I didn't have a chicken-frickin PayPal account. So I signed up for a PayPal account. They initially asked me to register using my bank account number. When I refused to give it, they reluctantly agreed to take my current GM MasterCard number instead.
After a few months, PayPal started asking me to give them my bank account number again. They said it was necessary to make me a Double Whammy Verified PayPaler. I said HELL no, so they limited my PayPal purchase amount. They said they'd release my limit if I got an Official PayPal Plus MasterCard. I said okay, give me one of your damned cards, but you're still not getting my bank account number.
Well, I got my first PayPal Plus MasterCard bill in an e-mail this week. And just try to guess the one payment method they offered me in my e-statement: to give them my bank account number! Unfrickinbelieveable!
I expect it to just keep getting better. In October eBay is going to require PayPal use in all parts auctions! That's right! You will only be able to use PayPal to buy / sell car parts on eBay unless you pick them up in person!
This has truly gotten out of hand. I thought eBay was a good alternative to swap meets, but maybe I was wrong. It's starting to look more like an organized crime scam to collect bank account numbers.
Years ago it was easy to ignore them. I just told bidders in my eBay auctions that I didn't take PayPal. Some children refused to bid in my auctions, but I didn't give a damn. To hell with the whole e-generation and the e-horse they rode in on.
Then other eBay sellers started refusing to take any payment other than PayPal. I couldn't buy some eBay stuff because I didn't have a chicken-frickin PayPal account. So I signed up for a PayPal account. They initially asked me to register using my bank account number. When I refused to give it, they reluctantly agreed to take my current GM MasterCard number instead.
After a few months, PayPal started asking me to give them my bank account number again. They said it was necessary to make me a Double Whammy Verified PayPaler. I said HELL no, so they limited my PayPal purchase amount. They said they'd release my limit if I got an Official PayPal Plus MasterCard. I said okay, give me one of your damned cards, but you're still not getting my bank account number.
Well, I got my first PayPal Plus MasterCard bill in an e-mail this week. And just try to guess the one payment method they offered me in my e-statement: to give them my bank account number! Unfrickinbelieveable!
I expect it to just keep getting better. In October eBay is going to require PayPal use in all parts auctions! That's right! You will only be able to use PayPal to buy / sell car parts on eBay unless you pick them up in person!
This has truly gotten out of hand. I thought eBay was a good alternative to swap meets, but maybe I was wrong. It's starting to look more like an organized crime scam to collect bank account numbers.
Said another way Question= "When does it hurt"....Answer = "When I bang my head". Stop banging your head and it will stop hurting.
09-24-2008, 11:42 AM
#23
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
09-24-2008, 06:02 PM
#25
Big Block Junkie
A few comments -
1. PayPal asks you to add a bank account, defaults to your bank account purely for economic reasons. When they process credit card payments they get charged 2% fees and bank transfers (ACH) are basically free.
2. PayPal currently pushes ~50% of users to use their bank accounts or stored value instead of paying with credit cards. This is how they make money. If you look at eBay's earnings report and do a few calculations you soon realize that PayPal would not be profitable without pushing customers to bank transfers.
3. People on this thread are absolutely correct that you should always use your Credit Card to make purchases online. Visa, MasterCard and others have great fraud protection programs that protect you agains Unauthorized use of your account, Non-Delivery of goods and Merchandise that is Defective or Not as described.
I work in the payments & fraud prevention area professionally and can answer any other questions that people have on this topic.
-Andy
1. PayPal asks you to add a bank account, defaults to your bank account purely for economic reasons. When they process credit card payments they get charged 2% fees and bank transfers (ACH) are basically free.
2. PayPal currently pushes ~50% of users to use their bank accounts or stored value instead of paying with credit cards. This is how they make money. If you look at eBay's earnings report and do a few calculations you soon realize that PayPal would not be profitable without pushing customers to bank transfers.
3. People on this thread are absolutely correct that you should always use your Credit Card to make purchases online. Visa, MasterCard and others have great fraud protection programs that protect you agains Unauthorized use of your account, Non-Delivery of goods and Merchandise that is Defective or Not as described.
I work in the payments & fraud prevention area professionally and can answer any other questions that people have on this topic.
-Andy
09-24-2008, 06:26 PM
#26
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If I'm not mistaken, e-Bay's sole acceptance of, partnership with, and ownership of PayPal resulted in violations of anti-trust and anti-competition laws in Australia. I think those courts forced them to allow other payment methods down under. Similar anti-trust and Sherman act violations are pending in US and EU courts. 
e-Bay is long overdue for some healthy humiliation from competition like Google auctions etc.
www.nopaypal.com
e-Bay is long overdue for some healthy humiliation from competition like Google auctions etc. www.nopaypal.com
Ive always hated PayPals heavy-handed manners, but the fact remains that I was losing so many sales that I had to start accepting payPal to sell my stuff. And, I do love the quick payments I can make and receive, instead of dealing with 1980 technology like money orders. Now that ebay only accepts PayPal, you are just going to have to accept it.
I agree with the idea that you can either get a very low dollar checking account if giving them an account # scares you, and to switch your default to your CC instead of checking account for each payment. I am at the point where I keep enough $ in my PayPal account from sales that I can just draw on that when making purchases.
The biggest problem I still have is the continued anti-seller changes ebay continues to make. Just brutal. Now they are going to tell you if your shipping charges are too high. And I thought the feedback changes were the worst.
09-24-2008, 06:49 PM
#27
Le Mans Master
I'm going to have to take the ebay/paypal side. I run an online record business and sell mainly overseas. I've been on ebay for over 10 years and started using paypal when they began. I've had a few problems over the years but nothing compaired to the many lost payments through the mail from overseas. (these were cash). I like the idea that the payment goes right into my savings account and I can use it to pay for the things I buy off the internet, so I guess it's all in what you use ebay and paypal for. For us that use ebay daily, it is stil lthe best auction/goods site to get "stuff" on the internet. JMHO
Pilot Dan
09-24-2008, 08:01 PM
#28
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I really hate to be the one to break the news to you, but begining in 2011, IRS will require Paypal to report annual transactions that exceed $20,000 OR are in excess of 200 transactions per year for all users. This is for real and part of "The Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008". So much for the little guy trying to eek out a meager existance with a side business. This was a parting gift from George Bush (as if he needed to do more) that he signed into law on July 30,2008. Someone has to pay for the bailout right? Pilot Dan
Pilot Dan
09-24-2008, 08:37 PM
#29
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That specific provision was written into that legislation by Senator Dodd ("the Democrat taxmaster") of Connecticut, and there's nothing the President can do about little "riders" like that on enormous spending bills until that office gets line-item veto power. Dodd doesn't want anyone who makes a buck to get away with not paying taxes on it, regardless of their circumstances, so he's dribbling "Big Brother" riders into all sorts of obscure legislation; in ten years the kid next door won't be able to mow your lawn without the IRS knowing about it.
Would that be the same Dodd who heads up the committee that is now taking testimony about the meltdown and the same Dodd who heads the Banking Oversight Committee that was somehow supposed to be overseeing the Securities and Banking industries? Amazing how these pick pockets can be in the pocket of every law mower kid and MISS THE RUN UP TO THE BIGGEST MELTDOWN since the Depression. BTW Dodd is a BIG BUDDY of guess who ....Ted Kennedy that staunch defender of the little guy and staunch taxer of EVERYONE.
Last edited by hpexpatriot; 09-24-2008 at 09:37 PM.
09-24-2008, 08:58 PM
#30
Pro
This is exactly what I do. I don't want them knowing anything else about me. They must think I am a pauper with a few hundred bucks, but it satisfies their demands.
09-24-2008, 09:55 PM
#31
Drifting
That specific provision was written into that legislation by Senator Dodd ("the Democrat taxmaster") of Connecticut, and there's nothing the President can do about little "riders" like that on enormous spending bills until that office gets line-item veto power. Dodd doesn't want anyone who makes a buck to get away with not paying taxes on it, regardless of their circumstances, so he's dribbling "Big Brother" riders into all sorts of obscure legislation; in ten years the kid next door won't be able to mow your lawn without the IRS knowing about it.
Yea, Dodd needs to get up with Charlie Rangel.
Fred
09-24-2008, 10:08 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
Every time I have used Pay-Pal the process seemed to go well. I have used maybe 3 times, to buy parts for my corvette from other members.
But to the point, every time I use it, I get inquires shortly afterwords asking me to verify my card numbers, or somebody has used my account and they want to verify my card no's., or other con's to try and get me to respond.
Is it possible that transactions going through Pay-Pal are monitored by some means that alert someone or something that there's a mark out there. Do you think this is a shotgun approach figuring that everyone uses it and they might get lucky.
Dennis
But to the point, every time I use it, I get inquires shortly afterwords asking me to verify my card numbers, or somebody has used my account and they want to verify my card no's., or other con's to try and get me to respond.
Is it possible that transactions going through Pay-Pal are monitored by some means that alert someone or something that there's a mark out there. Do you think this is a shotgun approach figuring that everyone uses it and they might get lucky.
Dennis
09-24-2008, 10:44 PM
#33
Melting Slicks
I've been an ebayer for many years and have used Paypal without problems. Very convenient!
That being said, like others advise, I am selective about sellers I purchase from and I never let Paypal debit my checking account. BUT, I will no longer sell on ebay because of their recent feedback changes. I've twice sold the same item only to never receive payment. Not a dang thing you can do about such worthless buyers either! Non payment strikes are hidden and no negative feedback alllowed! Crazy!
That being said, like others advise, I am selective about sellers I purchase from and I never let Paypal debit my checking account. BUT, I will no longer sell on ebay because of their recent feedback changes. I've twice sold the same item only to never receive payment. Not a dang thing you can do about such worthless buyers either! Non payment strikes are hidden and no negative feedback alllowed! Crazy!
09-25-2008, 12:31 AM
#34
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I really hate to be the one to break the news to you, but begining in 2011, IRS will require Paypal to report annual transactions that exceed $20,000 OR are in excess of 200 transactions per year for all users. This is for real and part of "The Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008". So much for the little guy trying to eek out a meager existance with a side business. This was a parting gift from George Bush (as if he needed to do more) that he signed into law on July 30,2008. Someone has to pay for the bailout right? Pilot Dan
Pilot DanIRS and local tax enforcement routinely track, both civilly and criminally, unreported income of much less than this every year, for good reason. If someone is making $20k+ a year and hiding it from the Feds, they need a bill slapped on them and/or criminal charges applied for the exact same reason law-abiding citizens pay their taxes properly every year, whether its income, withholding or sales taxes.
Sorry gang. I'm sure I will be the lone voice here, but this is not Big Brother taking quarters from your kids' piggy bank. It's about fairness to everyone.
09-25-2008, 06:05 PM
#35
Pro
09-25-2008, 07:15 PM
#36
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Look at their FAQ... it actually says the max shipping they will allow you to charge might not be enough to cover what shipping costs you!!!!!!! Im not kidding. They say buyers are scared off by shipping and that the seller can make it up in the sale.
Most recently, Ive listed some old table hockey games that Ive been selling since 1996. I know how much they cost to ship. Ive listed the shipping charge and ebay has sent me a little nagging email in red print saying they think its too high. THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS! They havent forced a change on those yet, but its coming.
09-25-2008, 07:48 PM
#37
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After the big switch (paypal only-coming in late october) you can still pay with a MO or personal check. It is the seller that cannot advertise the option that he/she will accept payments other than paypal. Ebay thinks that by controlling the money in the transaction(they own paypal) they can weed out the lousy sellers who don't offer refunds when the deal goes bad. I've been selling on ebay for 10 years and have never taken paypal. I don't like their chargeback policy where a buyer can get a refund or chargeback BEFORE he sends the item back to the seller.
09-25-2008, 10:38 PM
#38
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St. Jude Donor '07
It started with the most recent round of changes. Right now, they say they will NOT LET you charge shipping that THEY think is too high on selected items (I think many are DVDs etc) but you know once people get used to the selected items, that list will expand.
Look at their FAQ... it actually says the max shipping they will allow you to charge might not be enough to cover what shipping costs you!!!!!!! Im not kidding. They say buyers are scared off by shipping and that the seller can make it up in the sale.
Most recently, Ive listed some old table hockey games that Ive been selling since 1996. I know how much they cost to ship. Ive listed the shipping charge and ebay has sent me a little nagging email in red print saying they think its too high. THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS! They havent forced a change on those yet, but its coming.
Look at their FAQ... it actually says the max shipping they will allow you to charge might not be enough to cover what shipping costs you!!!!!!! Im not kidding. They say buyers are scared off by shipping and that the seller can make it up in the sale.
Most recently, Ive listed some old table hockey games that Ive been selling since 1996. I know how much they cost to ship. Ive listed the shipping charge and ebay has sent me a little nagging email in red print saying they think its too high. THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS! They havent forced a change on those yet, but its coming.
Bill
09-26-2008, 06:05 PM
#39
Le Mans Master
I don't use paypal period, nuff said, don't use and run them out of business/ business that doesn't listen to customers and seems to not care does not deserve to stay in business !
09-28-2008, 06:08 PM
#40
Racer
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I will tell you a story about a friend who got screwed by paypal and ebay bigtime! He sold a 70 nova on ebay to a guy some 800 miles away.
Bill (my friend) only wanted the deposit (500.)ran through paypal and the rest (7000.)in cash when the guy picked up the car. Well the guy payed the whole amount thru paypal and 24 hours later was at Bills to pick up the car. He was not happy about all the fees he was going to have to give paypal for this transaction but went ahead and let the guy take the car. The guy upon leaving with the car contacts paypal and makes up some story about a deal gone wrong and wants his money back. Paypal pulls the money back out of Bills account and places it back in the buyers account. Guy is gone with the car and title, has his money back and Bill is totally screwed!!! Has no way except thru ebay to contact the guy and guess what? No response! Buyer knew what he was doing from the very beginning! I dont know exactly where this stands now but Bill still doesnt have his money, his car, not jack!!
You guys who like it can talk good about it all you want, but I will NEVER use paypal and have decided to not buy off ebay anymore either. Someone said it above "back to the swap meets, much more fun" Amen Brother!! and a whole lot safer!! I would buy from the classifieds here with comfort as well. But the good old fashion way still always proves to be best