drewdog66vette

ok. those who care and have been following my problem with #6 intake valve. the culprit has been found. cam lobe is wiped out. now, i got the engine with only 2k on it and i was not the one who broke it in. but i only put maybe another 2k on the engine and never let it loose or anything. i am sorely pissed. they used a flat tappet cam instead of a roller cam, and alum high performance heads. just for fyi. but what kind of crap is going on today?? i mean, nothing is made here and nothing lasts worth a crap.... also pissed because of all the good stuff, ie: zinc is out of oil cause of the stinking epa and thar affects our crap and i am just still pissed...... i always used mobil 1 with this engine, but i really think it was caused by a incorrect break in. all the parts are trick flow, so i dont know what that says about that brand. but 4 k on an engine is really not that much... i take care of my crap and dont rag it. i guess the paint job can wait another year.....

MikeM

If it lasted 4000 miles, it likely wasn't the breakin procedure.

Might be too much valve spring pressure?

drewdog66vette

you may be right. an incorrect matching of parts... but summit sells this setup complete. so i am wondering if they don't know what they are doing.... did i mention that i am a bit upset.... i mean... it is like 75 outside and sunny and i am sitting here in the fetal position feeling like a prisoner on day 2 of a 40 year sentence......

Shurshot

Sorry to hear the bad news

When you go to order your cam you need to check on the material it is made of. For example at comp cams unless you specify it to be a billet cam it will be made out of some other sub performance metal.

The good news is that the steel billet is only a $16 option (one year ago)

Doug

drewdog66vette

thanks. will do... i am just bitter cause for example. i go to auto store to buy new calipers and hoses. i asked ahead of everything was made in usa.... yeah. the pimple says... i get there and yes, calipers are made in usa.... hoses.... you got it china.... i could not find any hoses made in usa.... i could order some. but i got my **** up and ready to do the job right now... not in a week.... kinda same thing here... nothing made here anymore and what we get half the time is crap.... gas at 5 a gallon soon and nothing is being done.... congress sitting on their butt and the damn chinese are drilling 50 miles off florida, yet no american company can.... i mean, when did things go so upside down??? no one gets in any more... that and the fact that a know nothing 16 month used to be community activist MAY be the next president??? hell, why do i get up any more.... yeah, i highjacked this thread, but it is mine..... i have had it up to my eyes and they are starting to bleed.....

stingrayl76

Dog! You don't want to blow a gasket. Look at it as an opportunity to improve the performance of your Vette and do it the correct way. Putting in a cam is certainly not an "all summer" sentence.

Dave

jdk971

dog i understand your frustration. calm down and thank God you were born or came to the best country ever. jim

Bill Irwin

Dog, calm down. This too will pass. But do tell, where did you get your info that the Chinese were drilling 50 miles off Florida? Never heard of this. Bill.

GOSFAST

It's kind of ironic having your "flat cam" in a post "plugging" synthetic oils.

We do a high number of flat-tappet's still during the course of any given year and have yet to have one single "lobe-failure"!!! Not a single lobe lost in some years now!

Two "rules" I tell my guy's to follow strictly, first use ONLY "Johnson" tappets, no other brand, and second, DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL ON FLAT-TAPPET CAMS, period!!!

These oils were NOT designed to be used on this "very-old" platform. Some may "squeeze" by with using it, but as I've stated, not a single lobe in some years!

The "standard" rules must still be followed, correct spring pressures, correct break-in procedures, etc.

For most flat-tappet builds, I really prefer the "Crane" line for cams along with the lifters we purchase from "Johnson" direct! (There's rumors kicking around "Crane's" future may be "short-lived", don't know for certain whether it's true)

(Add) Simple quick test for "validating" flat-cam diagnosis, pull the valve covers, run the unit, check that ALL pushrods are spinning! Fast or slow, as long as they're spinning, the cam's NOT flat. Somewhat easier to spot by using a "magic-marker" line drawn straight up and down on the pushrods!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Just on a side note here, I try to get all my customers to avoid using "synthetics", I firmly believe it is "just to slippery" and don't really serve the purpose that all these manufacturers' would like you to believe! Many years ago I had been involved with some dyno-room testing on the "Amsoil-Race" brand synthetic, simply put "it failed the tests". It MAY be different today, but I'm not buying into that fact! I have an excellent "track-record" with conventional oils!

drewdog66vette

thanks for the posts... thanks for the information.... i am cool just pissed. as for chinese drilling off coast...... cuba is selling drilling rights to chinese...... drilling 50 miles off florida coast.... i am sure they will protect the environment.... sure.... yet, american companies cannot... might spoil the view... just plain dumb. like me using mobil 1 in my car.... however.... engine is out and being fixed.... pulled covers and checked pushrods.... 6 intake is just plain messed up. oh well, better here than at dream cruise or at power cruise at somerset.... you guys are all cool and can chill.... i am just pissed i wake up every day and go to work so others can sit home and watch springer.... on my dime.... dont worry i wont go postal..... maybe i'll just get sick of it. fire all my employees... and take my toys and go home....

BLOCKMAN

We have been building engines for circle track and street and strip for 30 plus yeas now and we and on the hyd. flat tappet engines we have been using the lifter right form GM as they have a steel bottom on them and are harder then the cast iron Johnson lifters and when we order cams we have them cut on a P-55 cam core which is a performance cam core and is harder on the nose the std. cam cores but does cost a about 15 dollars more.

And a shop owner near me found out the hard way that Mobil has changed their formular over the last few years and it not intended for flat tappet cams.

Our customers use AMSOIL synthetic in ALL our circle track engines and have for years with zero problems.

And for a good dino oil the http://www.cen-pe-co.com/ their 20/50 has 2300 PPM of zinc and is high in phosephate and even their 15/40 diesel oil has 1582 in zinc.

A good rule of thumb is if the oil doesn't say racing oil on bottle the zinc has been lowered so beware.

We use to use Rotella-T but they lowered the zinc from 1400 to 950 which is not enough zing for any flat tappet cam.

We don't break our cams in on synthetic oil

drewdog66vette

hey. thanks. will make sure this doesnt happen agian... going to roller cam..... just like the government to screw with things.... and screw them up......

NEVERL8

I've been watching this thread. There is sure a lot of opinion on flat vs roller cams. In the end you have to do what you think best. I just rebuilt my L-79 and went to a roller cam and rockers. I suppose I didn't really need to do this but I plan to be buried in the car and I did not want to deal with ever having a valve train issue again. Right or wrong it was my decision to make and I am happy with it.

drewdog66vette

yeah, that is what i am finding out... i did not build the engine, but if i had, i would have used that to begin with.....that is what is going back in. already had the roller rockers. maybe the guy ran out of jack and just didnt have the extra mulla to do the job with roller cam... anyway... good information all. and thanks.... now if i can just get it back in like 10 days, i'll be happy.... well, ok. i'll be satisfied, happy just seems too far out of reach.....

JohnFromVentura

I like this idea!
"Simple quick test for "validating" flat-cam diagnosis, pull the valve covers, run the unit, check that ALL pushrods are spinning! Fast or slow, as long as they're spinning, the cam's NOT flat. Somewhat easier to spot by using a "magic-marker" line drawn straight up and down on the pushrods!"

Stingray1967

Dog,

Just a comment about roller cams. If you have the original engine like I do (or period correct engine at least), to go to roller cam setup, you'll need to have the engine shop "stabilize" the lifters somehow. In other words, with a roller on the bottom of the lifter that comes in contact with the cam lobe, the lifters will have to be "locked in place" such that they don't spin around. You can imagine what would happen if the roller at the bottom of the lifter turned 90 degrees and then tried to go over the cam lobe. I would argue that it would create even more friction than a flat tappet setup.

Anyway, just wanted to run that past you because I just rebuilt my L-79 last year. I went with roller rockers but a flat tappet lifter. I didn't want to drill into my original heads to prevent the lifters from spinning. That was an added cost, a hit to originality, and can be avoided by using the zinc additives.

The reason I went with a roller rocker setup is that my engine guy said that oiling of the rocker points can, in some instances, be the least likely point in the motor to get oil quickly after startup. Hence the rollers.

Here's a picture of my setup.

http://www.vetteaction.com/modules/n...php?storyid=29

65ZR1

You dont need to do any drilling to use a roller tappet cam. There are several different styles but the rotation issue was solved by linking two roller lifters together. No machining is necessary. You will have to use a cam button to prevent cam walk and possibly use a bronze or poly distributor gear. This is necessary on cams without the pressed on cast gear. Also, some cam companies recommend a bronze tipped fuel pump pushrod if you use a racing style pump. Sounds complicated but its actually very easy to retro fit an early motor.

BADBIRDCAGE

Having viewed the photos in your post I see you didn't go with full roller rockers. You went with roller TIP rockers. An improvement over stock but you still have more friction at the rocker arm stud than a full roller setup.

Your reference to more friction than a flat tappet cam if a roller lifter rotated into an improper position would more likely cause catastrophic failure of the valve train due to causing more valve lift resulting in contact of the valve with the piston; or the lifter causing the lifter boss to fracture/fail due to sideways pressure exerted by the camshaft lobe pushing the lifter sideways towards the center of the block.

As stated by 65ZR1 the retrofit roller setups do not require any machining of the block. The rollers are paired with a cross-bar the prevent the lifters from rotating into an improper position on the camshaft during operation.

Rich

tominohio

I use Brad Penn 20-50W Racing oil from Bradford, Pa. and it is loaded with zinc! This formula is the original Kendall Oil made in the same plant!
For you "Old Timmers" like me it's even the same green color as the original!! My "66" 327-350 has never been on any other oil.
Tom in Ohio

jdk971

you may not have to machine the block, but don't you have to put rocker
pins (hell i forget what they are called) too screw in style?

also tom i am in columbus, where did you get brad penn. thanks jim