Gas
04-30-2008, 11:47 AM
#61
Drifting
<<snip>>
- How about increasing bio-fuel production, but not at the cost of food staples...you want World War III, keep shifting production of corn, etc. over to bio-fuels, only to have food stuffs go through the roof. If some of more dire global warming predictions are true, we're likely to see significant shifts in weather in the world's bread baskets and rice bowls, which like the bad rice harvest in India last year, could lead to food hoarding, famine, etc. (only in a wider and more pronounced way). Add this on to a diversion of food stuffs for gasoline additives/replacements, and the whole planet is screwed.
- Finally, if you think competition for oil is the sign of a slip towards total war, wait until drinking water issues exceed or compound the energy issue....not a pretty picture of the future.
<<snip>>
- How about increasing bio-fuel production, but not at the cost of food staples...you want World War III, keep shifting production of corn, etc. over to bio-fuels, only to have food stuffs go through the roof. If some of more dire global warming predictions are true, we're likely to see significant shifts in weather in the world's bread baskets and rice bowls, which like the bad rice harvest in India last year, could lead to food hoarding, famine, etc. (only in a wider and more pronounced way). Add this on to a diversion of food stuffs for gasoline additives/replacements, and the whole planet is screwed.
- Finally, if you think competition for oil is the sign of a slip towards total war, wait until drinking water issues exceed or compound the energy issue....not a pretty picture of the future.
<<snip>>
I've been comparing our present standard of living to those of Royalty in recent generations: food, alcohol, and products from all over the world are easily accessible; easy and cheap travel to exotic destinations; longer life expectancy and better health care; instant access to entertainment and information from all over the planet...
One could argue that we're living much better, and I've wondered how long the party is going to last...
04-30-2008, 01:21 PM
#62
Racer
Member Since: Feb 2008
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Hey Darguy;
Can we have some more information on the alcohol-royalty comparison. Now that sounds like a worthwhile thread!
This thread shows that Corvette lovers come in all political strip and conviction. Very interesting and some very good issues raised in better fashion than our politicians running the country.
My thought for the day. Once the Fed stops lowering interest rates the dollar strengthens and the price of gas drops (some what) but increased third world demand prevents a return to the good old days. At this point even American car manufacturers finally see the need for efficient vehicles and make real improvment in their product line. We learn to live with $3.00/gal gas and life goes on.
The only downside is Kyle is stuck with his Boomer Mansion which is too expensive to heat!
Rob
Can we have some more information on the alcohol-royalty comparison. Now that sounds like a worthwhile thread!
This thread shows that Corvette lovers come in all political strip and conviction. Very interesting and some very good issues raised in better fashion than our politicians running the country.
My thought for the day. Once the Fed stops lowering interest rates the dollar strengthens and the price of gas drops (some what) but increased third world demand prevents a return to the good old days. At this point even American car manufacturers finally see the need for efficient vehicles and make real improvment in their product line. We learn to live with $3.00/gal gas and life goes on.
The only downside is Kyle is stuck with his Boomer Mansion which is too expensive to heat!
Rob
04-30-2008, 02:10 PM
#63
Burning Brakes
Been following this thread and decided to post this Wikipedia article......very fascinating. Click the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves
I remember 1973 very well, ya see, that was the year I became environmentally friendly due to the oil embargo. I was in my 4th year of my 5-year degree plan to become a world-renowned Architect!!! To celebrate that fact, promote my new environmentally friendly demeanor, and to be able to afford books and food, I chose to trade in my really coooooool Signet Gold 67 GTO for a 1974 Pinto. Not cool, BUT I was saving the planet!!!!
OK, we're 35 years later down the road and what have I learned?
1. To be successful in business, it's not what you know, It's who you know.
2. I wish I had my GTO back.
3. History usually repeats itself.
4. Politicians lie.
5. The wife is always right.
6. Homeowners Association rules suck.
7. Like steak, I don't care what gas costs. I'll still want it.
8. Al Gore will save us from ourselves.
9. Clothes shrink in the closet.
10. .......and a Pinto is a POS!!!!!!!!
Have a great day!!
I remember 1973 very well, ya see, that was the year I became environmentally friendly due to the oil embargo. I was in my 4th year of my 5-year degree plan to become a world-renowned Architect!!! To celebrate that fact, promote my new environmentally friendly demeanor, and to be able to afford books and food, I chose to trade in my really coooooool Signet Gold 67 GTO for a 1974 Pinto. Not cool, BUT I was saving the planet!!!!
OK, we're 35 years later down the road and what have I learned?
1. To be successful in business, it's not what you know, It's who you know.
2. I wish I had my GTO back.
3. History usually repeats itself.
4. Politicians lie.
5. The wife is always right.
6. Homeowners Association rules suck.
7. Like steak, I don't care what gas costs. I'll still want it.
8. Al Gore will save us from ourselves.
9. Clothes shrink in the closet.
10. .......and a Pinto is a POS!!!!!!!!
Have a great day!!
04-30-2008, 02:31 PM
#64
Le Mans Master
Been following this thread and decided to post this Wikipedia article......very fascinating. Click the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves
I remember 1973 very well, ya see, that was the year I became environmentally friendly due to the oil embargo. I was in my 4th year of my 5-year degree plan to become a world-renowned Architect!!! To celebrate that fact, promote my new environmentally friendly demeanor, and to be able to afford books and food, I chose to trade in my really coooooool Signet Gold 67 GTO for a 1974 Pinto. Not cool, BUT I was saving the planet!!!!
OK, we're 35 years later down the road and what have I learned?
1. To be successful in business, it's not what you know, It's who you know.
2. I wish I had my GTO back.
3. History usually repeats itself.
4. Politicians lie.
5. The wife is always right.
6. Homeowners Association rules suck.
7. Like steak, I don't care what gas costs. I'll still want it.
8. Al Gore will save us from ourselves.
9. Clothes shrink in the closet.
10. .......and a Pinto is a POS!!!!!!!!
Have a great day!!
I remember 1973 very well, ya see, that was the year I became environmentally friendly due to the oil embargo. I was in my 4th year of my 5-year degree plan to become a world-renowned Architect!!! To celebrate that fact, promote my new environmentally friendly demeanor, and to be able to afford books and food, I chose to trade in my really coooooool Signet Gold 67 GTO for a 1974 Pinto. Not cool, BUT I was saving the planet!!!!
OK, we're 35 years later down the road and what have I learned?
1. To be successful in business, it's not what you know, It's who you know.
2. I wish I had my GTO back.
3. History usually repeats itself.
4. Politicians lie.
5. The wife is always right.
6. Homeowners Association rules suck.
7. Like steak, I don't care what gas costs. I'll still want it.
8. Al Gore will save us from ourselves.
9. Clothes shrink in the closet.
10. .......and a Pinto is a POS!!!!!!!!
Have a great day!!
04-30-2008, 02:37 PM
#65
Drifting
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Gas was $1.35 a gallon when King George took office. He has done nothing but provide huge tax breaks,and record profits for his buddies in the oil industry. I heard today that if the US government would stop filling up the strategic reserve,gas prices would drop from 18 to 25 cents a gallon. When asked by a reporter today if he would open the reserves,like Clinton did in the 1990's,his answer was NO! He could care less that the American people are suffering. He's going to do the same thing he has done for 7 years.....NOTHING! He doesn't want to hurt the profits of his oil buddies.The strategic reserves only cover US oil imports for 58 days (701.3 million barrels - only 280 or so of which is sweet crude, rest is sour - (latest estimate from the DOE). Even converting all of that to gas (and we all know it's not a gal-for-gal conversion)...how could that drive down the cost of a gallon of gas 18 to 25 cents for more than a couple of weeks...that sounds just like my state legislature...band-aid fixes to problems without ever getting at the structural reasons for the problem. The strategic reserve was last tapped after Katrina (11 million barrels). One funny thing about DOE's calculations...they state 58 days reserve, but can only drawn down at a maximum of 4.4 mil barrels/day. Doing the math give you 159.3 days to draw down the entire stock....so the real limit is not total capacity, but how fast they can move it.
04-30-2008, 02:38 PM
#66
Racer
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Just picked up your thread on gas prices . Spare a thought for us boys over the pond , at current exchange rates gas is well over 10 dollars a gallon .
Mike .
Mike .
04-30-2008, 03:25 PM
#67
The only people buying Mansions would be those foolish enough
to have their money tied up in a big house in a flooded market
where prices have to be slashed to sell.
In other words, people who follow your advice that the
market will rebound quickly..... this is not a quick rebounding
cyclical dip... it's a unique time in history with too many members
of society lumped into a small group... the law of supply and demand
in housing will weigh in as no other time in our nations history ...... there is too much supply in housing.....no amount of jeering will change that.
I am already downsized-have been for 3 years and will not be buying any large properties in the next 10 years or more... I will wait till the market starts turning up.. my money is already out.. not poised to be lost when my home equity evaportates.
Of course you could post some relevant economic data
to back up your claim, Rob.... how about posting
Median income and population of those 30-50 vs. The Boomers..
04-30-2008, 04:03 PM
#68
Melting Slicks
The strategic reserves only cover US oil imports for 58 days (701.3 million barrels - only 280 or so of which is sweet crude, rest is sour - (latest estimate from the DOE). Even converting all of that to gas (and we all know it's not a gal-for-gal conversion)...how could that drive down the cost of a gallon of gas 18 to 25 cents for more than a couple of weeks...that sounds just like my state legislature...band-aid fixes to problems without ever getting at the structural reasons for the problem. The strategic reserve was last tapped after Katrina (11 million barrels). One funny thing about DOE's calculations...they state 58 days reserve, but can only drawn down at a maximum of 4.4 mil barrels/day. Doing the math give you 159.3 days to draw down the entire stock....so the real limit is not total capacity, but how fast they can move it.
04-30-2008, 04:58 PM
#69
Burning Brakes
Anyone remember when Oil was $10 a barrel and Clinton wanted to empty the strategic petroleum reserve and use the money for a government program. It didn't happen.
The government did however sell the teapot dome oil fields (yes the ones you learned about in school) to Occidental Petrolium around that time (1998) Do you think Oxy did ok on that one. (buy low sell high)
Al Gore negotiated for the government in the sale.
If you want you can wiki Occidental Petroleum and Al Gore and see if there are any interesting connections.
The government did however sell the teapot dome oil fields (yes the ones you learned about in school) to Occidental Petrolium around that time (1998) Do you think Oxy did ok on that one. (buy low sell high)
Al Gore negotiated for the government in the sale.
If you want you can wiki Occidental Petroleum and Al Gore and see if there are any interesting connections.
04-30-2008, 05:00 PM
#70
Race Director
Correct me if I am wrong, but the expensive gas in Europe is due to the outrageous TAXES levied, not the price of the gas itself.
Speaking of TAXES, if Hillary gets her way and imposes a windfall profits tax on the oil companies do you really think the oil companies will sit back and watch the profit erode? Heck no. If she smacks them with a 50 cents a gallon tax tomorrow, then tomorrow the gas price at the pump will be up another 50 cents. Even my neighbors 8 year old figured that one out.
And, for the lib's out there...Nancy Pelosi said last Summer if the Dem's took control of the house and senate you'd see a change in gas prices. She was right. They have control and gas has gone up over a buck a gallon since then. When asked recently about that, she said they would need to form a committee and investigate.
We need to take the country back from the environmental wack-jobs, drill for our own oil and open up some refineries and power plants.
A friend of mine owns a small printing business in L.A. County, California, and had 25 employees. This year the EPA came in and told him he needed to install about $100,000 worth of emmissions equipment and keep detailed logs updated each morning and each evening of the different inks he uses. Instead of being able to use $2.00 a gallon solvent he was told he has to use $40.00 a gallon walnut extract or something like that, which doesn't work. And for every day he was out of complaince he would be fined $25,000.
Three weeks after he was notified, the EPA showed up at his business. The first thing they noticed was no employees and no work going on. The EPA rep asked where everyone was. My friend let them know he could not afford the requirements and it put him out of business. He also congratulated the EPA rep for putting 25 hardworking people out of their jobs. This kind of stuff goes on all over California. Arnold the governator was supposed to fix all that but he couldn't because the Dem controlled legislature has his hands tied and they just don't get it.
Will the last honest working person to leave California turn out the light?
Speaking of TAXES, if Hillary gets her way and imposes a windfall profits tax on the oil companies do you really think the oil companies will sit back and watch the profit erode? Heck no. If she smacks them with a 50 cents a gallon tax tomorrow, then tomorrow the gas price at the pump will be up another 50 cents. Even my neighbors 8 year old figured that one out.
And, for the lib's out there...Nancy Pelosi said last Summer if the Dem's took control of the house and senate you'd see a change in gas prices. She was right. They have control and gas has gone up over a buck a gallon since then. When asked recently about that, she said they would need to form a committee and investigate.
We need to take the country back from the environmental wack-jobs, drill for our own oil and open up some refineries and power plants.
A friend of mine owns a small printing business in L.A. County, California, and had 25 employees. This year the EPA came in and told him he needed to install about $100,000 worth of emmissions equipment and keep detailed logs updated each morning and each evening of the different inks he uses. Instead of being able to use $2.00 a gallon solvent he was told he has to use $40.00 a gallon walnut extract or something like that, which doesn't work. And for every day he was out of complaince he would be fined $25,000.
Three weeks after he was notified, the EPA showed up at his business. The first thing they noticed was no employees and no work going on. The EPA rep asked where everyone was. My friend let them know he could not afford the requirements and it put him out of business. He also congratulated the EPA rep for putting 25 hardworking people out of their jobs. This kind of stuff goes on all over California. Arnold the governator was supposed to fix all that but he couldn't because the Dem controlled legislature has his hands tied and they just don't get it.
Will the last honest working person to leave California turn out the light?
Last edited by Randy G.; 04-30-2008 at 05:05 PM.
04-30-2008, 05:03 PM
#71
Drifting
Member Since: Oct 2006
Location: OZ City, Kansas, The Land of AHHHHHHS!
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I'll take a few weeks of 25 cent a gallon cheaper gas. It will give me a chance to fill up my 3 cars.Thats better than the price going up 25 cents ever couple of weeks like its been doing. But like I said,Bush isn't going to do nothing to help Americans, if it means hurting Big Oil.
04-30-2008, 05:08 PM
#72
Administrator
Member Since: Jul 2000
Location: About 1100 miles from where I call home. Blue lives matter.
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04-30-2008, 06:12 PM
#73
Melting Slicks
It will be very interesting to see what big oil does between now and the election. If they continue to gouge Americans with record fuel profits,the American people will throw the republicans out of the White House,and big oil will lose their "sweetheart" deals they have enjoyed for the past 8 years. On the other hand,if they lower their prices down to reasonable levels,they might keep another "bought and paid for boot lick" in the White House,but they will have to forfeit their record profits. What to do? What to do?
04-30-2008, 06:28 PM
#74
Race Director
It will be very interesting to see what big oil does between now and the election. If they continue to gouge Americans with record fuel profits,the American people will throw the republicans out of the White House,and big oil will lose their "sweetheart" deals they have enjoyed for the past 8 years. On the other hand,if they lower their prices down to reasonable levels,they might keep another "bought and paid for boot lick" in the White House,but they will have to forfeit their record profits. What to do? What to do?
04-30-2008, 06:37 PM
#75
It will be very interesting to see what big oil does between now and the election. If they continue to gouge Americans with record fuel profits,the American people will throw the republicans out of the White House,and big oil will lose their "sweetheart" deals they have enjoyed for the past 8 years. On the other hand,if they lower their prices down to reasonable levels,they might keep another "bought and paid for boot lick" in the White House,but they will have to forfeit their record profits. What to do? What to do?
There are 3 libs running for office. (All in Pun)
Barack (sp) will have nomination stolen from him. 1/2 the Barack supporters will vote for Hillary, the other half will either vote for McCain or won't vote at all. McCain is going to win in a landslide. This fissure in the Democrat party cost them the election. Much like the Bush, Perot, and Clinton. The only difference is one of these will not be on the ticket.
McCain knows this, and is just sitting in the back watching. If he really want to secure a MASSIVE win, he will have Joe Lieberman as his VP. In this case, the Dems will be lucky to carry 5 states.
Mark
04-30-2008, 06:59 PM
#76
Burning Brakes
Went to a local Chevy dealer today to try to order some GM zinc additive. They didn't have any and never heard of it. However they did have two 2008 Corvettes on the showroom floor. Both were red. One was the base model the other was a Z06. Much to my surprise, they both had a higher fuel economy rating than my 08 Jeep Grand Cherokee. If gas prices keep going up maybe I can't afford not to buy a new vette.
04-30-2008, 08:15 PM
#77
Pro
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It's not what you drive, it's why you drive. We are retired and waited a lifetime to enjoy a big American made car. We don't go too many places and consolidate or trips to the store. And, we try to buy U.S. made goods whenever possible. I'm also buying Hess gas as it comes from somewhere other than the Arabs. (I hope!). Al W.
04-30-2008, 08:35 PM
#78
Melting Slicks
There are 3 libs running for office. (All in Pun)
Barack (sp) will have nomination stolen from him. 1/2 the Barack supporters will vote for Hillary, the other half will either vote for McCain or won't vote at all. McCain is going to win in a landslide. This fissure in the Democrat party cost them the election. Much like the Bush, Perot, and Clinton. The only difference is one of these will not be on the ticket.
McCain knows this, and is just sitting in the back watching. If he really want to secure a MASSIVE win, he will have Joe Lieberman as his VP. In this case, the Dems will be lucky to carry 5 states.
Mark
Barack (sp) will have nomination stolen from him. 1/2 the Barack supporters will vote for Hillary, the other half will either vote for McCain or won't vote at all. McCain is going to win in a landslide. This fissure in the Democrat party cost them the election. Much like the Bush, Perot, and Clinton. The only difference is one of these will not be on the ticket.
McCain knows this, and is just sitting in the back watching. If he really want to secure a MASSIVE win, he will have Joe Lieberman as his VP. In this case, the Dems will be lucky to carry 5 states.
Mark
04-30-2008, 08:36 PM
#79
Race Director
Went to a local Chevy dealer today to try to order some GM zinc additive. They didn't have any and never heard of it. However they did have two 2008 Corvettes on the showroom floor. Both were red. One was the base model the other was a Z06. Much to my surprise, they both had a higher fuel economy rating than my 08 Jeep Grand Cherokee. If gas prices keep going up maybe I can't afford not to buy a new vette.
04-30-2008, 08:37 PM
#80
Team Owner
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I'm disappointed by some folks' complete lack of understanding of world economics as it applies to the price of oil (or gas).
Politics and politicians have nothing to do with the price of oil (or gas); both are world commodities, whose prices are determined by supply and demand and the vagaries of every little thing that sparks panic and/or greed on the part of world-market commodity futures traders.
"Big Oil" also has little to do with the price of oil (or gas); they pay whatever they have to on the world markets in order to get crude to supply their refining and distribution systems, and the pump price reflects their costs, plus an 8% profit margin, plus federal, state, and local taxes. "Record Profits" (in dollars) are simply 8% of higher revenues (in dollars) due to higher raw material costs (crude oil) reflected in the retail price of gas. "Record Profits" is probably the worst possible description in popular use today, popularized by people with zero understanding of both business and economics who want to "blame" someone for higher gas prices.
Our politicians refuse to reduce our dependence on foreign oil by pandering to every nut-ball wacko group that doesn't want us to drill for our own oil and doesn't want any more refineries built; meanwhile, world-wide demand for oil is skyrocketing due to the rapidly-developing Asian and Indian industrial and consumer economies, and those folks have joined the bidding for an essentially constant supply of oil. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what that additional demand (and their new-found ability to pay for it) does to the world price of crude oil on commodity markets.
The only thing any politician or President can do to help is to start drilling for more of our own supply and make it attractive to put more refining capacity in place to process it for our own use. However, the President is powerless to do so, as the Congress is more concerned about getting re-elected than addressing our domestic energy problems, and pandering to the minority nut-ball special interest groups who don't want more drilling and refining is how they get the votes.
"Big Oil" ain't the problem, guys; they can be part of the solution, but the self-serving spineless politicians won't allow it to happen.
Politics and politicians have nothing to do with the price of oil (or gas); both are world commodities, whose prices are determined by supply and demand and the vagaries of every little thing that sparks panic and/or greed on the part of world-market commodity futures traders.
"Big Oil" also has little to do with the price of oil (or gas); they pay whatever they have to on the world markets in order to get crude to supply their refining and distribution systems, and the pump price reflects their costs, plus an 8% profit margin, plus federal, state, and local taxes. "Record Profits" (in dollars) are simply 8% of higher revenues (in dollars) due to higher raw material costs (crude oil) reflected in the retail price of gas. "Record Profits" is probably the worst possible description in popular use today, popularized by people with zero understanding of both business and economics who want to "blame" someone for higher gas prices.
Our politicians refuse to reduce our dependence on foreign oil by pandering to every nut-ball wacko group that doesn't want us to drill for our own oil and doesn't want any more refineries built; meanwhile, world-wide demand for oil is skyrocketing due to the rapidly-developing Asian and Indian industrial and consumer economies, and those folks have joined the bidding for an essentially constant supply of oil. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what that additional demand (and their new-found ability to pay for it) does to the world price of crude oil on commodity markets.
The only thing any politician or President can do to help is to start drilling for more of our own supply and make it attractive to put more refining capacity in place to process it for our own use. However, the President is powerless to do so, as the Congress is more concerned about getting re-elected than addressing our domestic energy problems, and pandering to the minority nut-ball special interest groups who don't want more drilling and refining is how they get the votes.
"Big Oil" ain't the problem, guys; they can be part of the solution, but the self-serving spineless politicians won't allow it to happen.