1961 Vette power steering
02-19-2008, 09:32 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
1961 Vette power steering
****************************************
If anyone is interested,
I added two more pictures to my slide show photos...
Column brace and the parts I removed.
****************************************
Well, my winter project is almost finished. I have been working on
this for about 2 months and see the end now. I started the car today
and turned the wheels full left to full right with 1 finger. ( car sitting
in driveway ) The pictures are at:
http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/g...er%20steering/
I will post the full cost, what I bought and where.
In general, I used a 1976 Ford F250 4WD steering box. $75
used. Rebuild kit $35 from NAPA
GM type II pump from Summit. $93
Steering joints from Summit. $100
Column bearing from Unisteer, 55-57 chevy
column bearing. $25
Hose kit from Summit for Chevy pump. $105
Pump bracket from Alan Grove Components,
409L bracket... $65
Home made brackets for 3rd arm and pump.
Total: About $550 with nuts and bolts
****************************
Note: You will need a Mustang II power steering Flow valve
for a GM type II pump. This reduces the fluid flow from
3 GPM down to 2 GPM. Ford steering uses less flow
GM boxes. I am using the valve for the steering and
the Hydro boost power brakes. Both work perfect
together.
Search for "2 GPM flow valve power steering"
Cost: 10-20 dollars.
*****************************
If anyone is interested,
I added two more pictures to my slide show photos...
Column brace and the parts I removed.
****************************************
Well, my winter project is almost finished. I have been working on
this for about 2 months and see the end now. I started the car today
and turned the wheels full left to full right with 1 finger. ( car sitting
in driveway ) The pictures are at:
http://s250.photobucket.com/albums/g...er%20steering/
I will post the full cost, what I bought and where.
In general, I used a 1976 Ford F250 4WD steering box. $75
used. Rebuild kit $35 from NAPA
GM type II pump from Summit. $93
Steering joints from Summit. $100
Column bearing from Unisteer, 55-57 chevy
column bearing. $25
Hose kit from Summit for Chevy pump. $105
Pump bracket from Alan Grove Components,
409L bracket... $65
Home made brackets for 3rd arm and pump.
Total: About $550 with nuts and bolts
****************************
Note: You will need a Mustang II power steering Flow valve
for a GM type II pump. This reduces the fluid flow from
3 GPM down to 2 GPM. Ford steering uses less flow
GM boxes. I am using the valve for the steering and
the Hydro boost power brakes. Both work perfect
together.
Search for "2 GPM flow valve power steering"
Cost: 10-20 dollars.
*****************************
Last edited by x0000rgw; 12-30-2011 at 12:07 PM. Reason: Power steering pump flow valve
02-19-2008, 10:10 PM
#5
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Ray,
Congrats!
And nicely documented as well.
Let us know how the driving feel (sensitivity, etc.) is, and how the ratio turned out (too quick or slow, or just perfect?).
Way to go!
John (Plasticman)
Congrats!
And nicely documented as well.
Let us know how the driving feel (sensitivity, etc.) is, and how the ratio turned out (too quick or slow, or just perfect?).
Way to go!
John (Plasticman)
02-20-2008, 07:34 AM
#7
Team Owner
We don't need no steenking power steering.
Sorry guys - couldn't help it!
Seriously, hats off for an ingenious approach.
Sorry guys - couldn't help it!
Seriously, hats off for an ingenious approach.
02-20-2008, 12:38 PM
#9
Safety Car
Vary nice you really thought it out
, you must be really vary OLD 
, I'm only 67 and can still turn the wheel OK while driving
just having fun with you
, you must be really vary OLD , I'm only 67 and can still turn the wheel OK while driving just having fun with you
02-20-2008, 01:30 PM
#11
Team Owner
Responding to the general disparagement of my rebuild of the original '61 windshield waster system in recent posts !
But hey, after muscling a non-power steering '66 Mustang with extra-wide Radial T/As on the front and a Shelby-ized front suspension for years, the C1 feels like a pussycat - even when parallel parking. Just don't see the need - speaking personally of course.
But hey, after muscling a non-power steering '66 Mustang with extra-wide Radial T/As on the front and a Shelby-ized front suspension for years, the C1 feels like a pussycat - even when parallel parking. Just don't see the need - speaking personally of course.
02-20-2008, 03:42 PM
#12
Racer
Thread Starter
my head with 1 arm. I'm not as old as I feel sometimes, but I can't
resist a project that has never been done (to my knowledge). I see
a lot of folks on this forum talking about power steering for a C1.
Maybe some will try something new, like working out a new project.
Time flies and I intend to give this car to my daughter. She weighs
about 100 pounds and a C1 would be tough to handle steering wise.
Take care,
Ray
02-20-2008, 03:49 PM
#13
Racer
Thread Starter
You were right, the 16 to 1 steering box is a little slow on the
steering. It's tolerable, but could be better. The pitman arm is only
about 6.5 inches now that I had to bend it down to clear the frame.
How much do you think I should lengthen it to get about 10%
improvement in the response to turning?
By my calcs, if I add 1 inch to the pitman arm, I would get about 15%
faster steering. Since the arc traveled by the pitman is 6.5 x pi /4 = 5.11 inches. At 7.5 inches 7.5 x pi /4 = 5.89 inches. 5.89 / 5.11 = 115%
Well, I am wrong again. C = pi x D 6.5 x 2 x pi /4 = 10.21
7.5 x 2 x pi /4 = 11.78
11.78 / 10.21 = 115.4 %
Ray
Last edited by x0000rgw; 02-20-2008 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Fix calcs again
02-20-2008, 04:58 PM
#15
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Location: Inverness FL
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St. Jude Donor '07
John,
You were right, the 16 to 1 steering box is a little slow on the
steering. It's tolerable, but could be better. The pitman arm is only
about 6.5 inches now that I had to bend it down to clear the frame.
How much do you think I should lengthen it to get about 10%
improvement in the response to turning?
By my calcs, if I add 1 inch to the pitman arm, I would get about 15%
faster steering. Since the arc traveled by the pitman is 6.5 x pi /4 = 5.11 inches. At 7.5 inches 7.5 x pi /4 = 5.89 inches. 5.89 / 5.11 = 115%
Ray
You were right, the 16 to 1 steering box is a little slow on the
steering. It's tolerable, but could be better. The pitman arm is only
about 6.5 inches now that I had to bend it down to clear the frame.
How much do you think I should lengthen it to get about 10%
improvement in the response to turning?
By my calcs, if I add 1 inch to the pitman arm, I would get about 15%
faster steering. Since the arc traveled by the pitman is 6.5 x pi /4 = 5.11 inches. At 7.5 inches 7.5 x pi /4 = 5.89 inches. 5.89 / 5.11 = 115%
Ray
Bill
02-20-2008, 05:49 PM
#16
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Ray,
You can simplify that by just going 7.5/6.5=1.1538!
At any rate, it certainly is worth a try. And if not enough, just keep adding until something won't fit! Might want to get a couple of extra pitman arms from the boneyard (if they will sell them separate)
As for Bill's concerns, he is certainly correct, but with the right rod material (a high nickel rod would be my 1st choice), and carefully layered beads starting with a deep double "V" should do the job. Overkill does not hurt here, so an overall increase in weld hgt. at the cut would not hurt.
Let's face it, since that box and pitman came out of a truck, it was overkill for a C1 by a whole bunch anyway!
John (plasticman)
You can simplify that by just going 7.5/6.5=1.1538!
At any rate, it certainly is worth a try. And if not enough, just keep adding until something won't fit! Might want to get a couple of extra pitman arms from the boneyard (if they will sell them separate)
As for Bill's concerns, he is certainly correct, but with the right rod material (a high nickel rod would be my 1st choice), and carefully layered beads starting with a deep double "V" should do the job. Overkill does not hurt here, so an overall increase in weld hgt. at the cut would not hurt.
Let's face it, since that box and pitman came out of a truck, it was overkill for a C1 by a whole bunch anyway!
John (plasticman)
02-20-2008, 06:10 PM
#17
Racer
Thread Starter
Ray,
You can simplify that by just going 7.5/6.5=1.1538!
At any rate, it certainly is worth a try. And if not enough, just keep adding until something won't fit! Might want to get a couple of extra pitman arms from the boneyard (if they will sell them separate)
As for Bill's concerns, he is certainly correct, but with the right rod material (a high nickel rod would be my 1st choice), and carefully layered beads starting with a deep double "V" should do the job. Overkill does not hurt here, so an overall increase in weld hgt. at the cut would not hurt.
Let's face it, since that box and pitman came out of a truck, it was overkill for a C1 by a whole bunch anyway!
John (plasticman)
You can simplify that by just going 7.5/6.5=1.1538!
At any rate, it certainly is worth a try. And if not enough, just keep adding until something won't fit! Might want to get a couple of extra pitman arms from the boneyard (if they will sell them separate)
As for Bill's concerns, he is certainly correct, but with the right rod material (a high nickel rod would be my 1st choice), and carefully layered beads starting with a deep double "V" should do the job. Overkill does not hurt here, so an overall increase in weld hgt. at the cut would not hurt.
Let's face it, since that box and pitman came out of a truck, it was overkill for a C1 by a whole bunch anyway!
John (plasticman)
4 pounds by itself. I have an excellent welder that knows his business.
I would not be afraid to drive anything he welded. After I get it to the
right length, I'm going to do some grinding on the arm to thin it down.
Think I will start out at 1 inch and tack weld it enough to try it out.
Up and down the alley a few times should do it.
Ray
02-29-2008, 08:55 AM
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
Added to pitman arm
The steering was 4 turn lock to lock with the 6.5 inch pitman
arm. Have added 1 1/8 inch to the arm which dropped the movement to
3 turns lock to lock. This is just right for me. That's 12 to 1 steering
now and is easy to work with. Highway driving is great, very little motion to keep it straight.
arm. Have added 1 1/8 inch to the arm which dropped the movement to
3 turns lock to lock. This is just right for me. That's 12 to 1 steering
now and is easy to work with. Highway driving is great, very little motion to keep it straight.
02-29-2008, 09:42 AM
#19
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Location: Inverness FL
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St. Jude Donor '07
The steering was 4 turn lock to lock with the 6.5 inch pitman
arm. Have added 1 1/8 inch to the arm which dropped the movement to
3 turns lock to lock. This is just right for me. That's 12 to 1 steering
now and is easy to work with. Highway driving is great, very little motion to keep it straight.
arm. Have added 1 1/8 inch to the arm which dropped the movement to
3 turns lock to lock. This is just right for me. That's 12 to 1 steering
now and is easy to work with. Highway driving is great, very little motion to keep it straight.
3 turns was scary.... Bill
02-29-2008, 10:02 AM
#20
Race Director
Member Since: Nov 2000
Location: Beverly Hills (Pine Ridge) Florida
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Congrats again! Wish we were a lot closer to actually test drive your Vette (if you were even willing)!
Bill & Ray,
Comparing lock to lock assumes you are turning the same total angular amount (which I doubt that is happening). If you guys could actually measure the angle you are turning to in both directions, then we could compare the ratios properly. We need to figure out a method that you both can use to compare. Probably best to use a ref. point such as 12" forward, etc.
John (plasticman)