panchop

i didn't like what i was hearing about SJ 383 build. Anyone know where to find that 327 build Duke used to talk up. i believe it was specced out here a few times but i can't find it.

MikeM

The only thing I would say is DO NOT ruin a good SHP 327 engine by installing that awful LT-1 camshaft. Either use the 097, the 30-30 if you want solids or the L-79 cam if you like hydraulic lifter. The rest of it is okay because it's just a stock type buildup with exception of porting the heads. It also included replacement connecting rods which some people do. Some don't. The '66-'67 rods are fine unless you're going to twist the rpm to the moon.

Other's opinions will vary.

panchop

I know 30 30 or an LT1 big argument, i was looking to find out what compression etc he built it with. I am using the ported 2.5 ramshorns manifolds into sidepipes.

Scott Marzahl

You want to search for ghostrider20 or dave mcdufford.

I think Dave's is built at 10.25 and I believe Mark's is built a bit higher at 10.35 both using Federal Mogul 2166 pistons. With the stock exhaust, that "horrible" LT-1 cam has less overlap with it's 116LSA, and it has a very early opening exhaust to work with the stock exhaust manifolds. Both motors have great power bands. Mark's dyno sheets should be archived too, they are pretty nice both at the 90% and 80% bandwidths.

Here you go Greg: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...highlight=dyno and the video should still be on BarryK's website.

MikeM

"they are pretty nice both at the 90% and 80% bandwidths"


This makes for a VERY boring engine. Fine for a dump truck, not good for FUN driving.

By the way, Dave really likes his LT-1 cam. Or so he tells me.

I think you're missing an opportunity with the 383 setup in your 327. As long you kept the rpm down, I doubt you'd have any problem. It's been done successfully without those four bolt caps but 327's have been known to have weak main bearing webs anyway. I think they got strengthened in '66 or '67. Now, I'm outa' this one.

qwik-tripp

Whats wrong with the sj 383, I'm working on 3years with mine a cnc-motorsports kit scat 9000 crank scat 6"Ibeam rods and probe forged f/t pistons. 461 heads not ported just alittle bowl work with the valve job. Comp xe274 solid cam. 461 intake and 2818 carb 3.36 gears 13.22 106.
Kicks the $hit out of my buddies 365hp 4.10 gear car.If you have a trusted crankshaft man its not an issue.

panchop

SCAT told me it was a bad idea. The local machine shop said that it was a bad idea. pretty much told me i would have to carve the hell out of my block. they kind of scared me of as i am using my numbers matching block.

65air_coupe

I certainly wouldn't do it to a numbers matching block, too much value in that block to mess with it. I've also never wanted to pull and store my numbers block either, but have finally come around to realizing it's the smartest move. It's easy to find 350 blocks, even a two bolt version will do for most of us. The rotating assembly for a 383 can be had for around a grand, then simply use your existing heads and intake and put a set of underbody headers on it. Should be loads of fun!

panchop

after your post i called CNC motorsports and talked to someone named travis. he told me he could only do it with a large journal block i would really like to doit, i'm just ascared is all.

qwik-tripp

very minimal amount of clearancing of the block is needed, liability is the big reason scat and cnc don't say go. Too bad you live so far away, you could take a ride in mine and I also have another sj 327 block, hang on to your hat, this one is clearanced for a 3.875 crank. I building a 396 sj small block that looks like a 365hp 327. They also said we were crazy to put a 4" crank into a 400 block until we lapped the field, then every one wanted a 434, that was 18 years ago.

panchop

aaaarrrggghhh my head hurts.

6T5RUSH

I'm with Scott on this one. I've been a happy camper with this cam for 3 years. Pulls hard and very driveable. I've added Classic Auto Air and she hasn't lost her "nastiness."

Here's Dave McDufford's thread and dyno results:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...t=dyno+results

Here's GhostRiders20's thread and dyno resulsts:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...t=dyno+results

You can't go wrong with this cam.

Regards,

Jim

AZDoug

I have my CE short block for sale with Crower sportsman rods and new TRW/Speed pro 11:1 pistons, std bore, new rings and bearings.

Doug

KyleDallas

It wasn't a bad idea when Zora built one for his Grand Sports

a Scat tech is selling his product... looking out for his best interest..
probably doesn't want his cranks modified...gonna trust Scat or Zora Duntov???

Ohio Crankshaft can hook you up with a crank....

http://www.ohiocrank.com

Ohio Crank can grind a 350 journal 3.75 stroke crank to small journal
size.... and won't charge you an arm and leg...John Z said
that Ohio Crank was a former Dodge Viper crank contractor.

a 383 with stock Double Humps is going to choke out.. at a MINIMUM
get some World Sportsman II's.. check Ebay and RacingJunk for best prices but there's no reason you can't get a set of Sportsman II's ready to rock for $600...

Crank and Heads... $1000 to $1300....

ask the guys suggesting stock heads on 383's for their dyno sheets
..... they'd be too embarrased to show you.... alot of sub 400hp
chokers.

Ask Tom Parsons about block clearance..... I'll post some picks or a link on a
4.00 inch stroke going in a large journal 350 block.... Mickey Thompson put 4.00
inchers in small journal blocks 40 years ago....

wmf62

puhlease, let's not start that 'discussion' again...
Bill

aaronz28

Here we go.

Why doesn't anyone post links to my Dyno sheets proving the 30-30 beats the crap out of the LT1? And in a motor with 25 less cubes? (granted better intake)

I don't even know where that discussion went, but I recall Duke leaving this forum the minute I posted the dyno results which called into question all the bitching and slamming he did regarding the 30-30.

A

DZAUTO

There are TWO ways to build a 383 from a small journal 327.
WITHOUT QUESTION, it requires a very experienced and knowledgeable machine shop.
FIRST:
The main bores can be bored to the size of a big journal (350) block. Once the main bores are opened up, new notches for the main bearing tangs have to be cut into the block/caps. THIS IS IMPORTANT--------the notches for LJ and SJ main bearings are not in the same position, a good machinist will know this. Use either the longer 350 bolts for the main caps, longer studs, or the ultimate, convert the bottom end to aftermarket 4-bolt caps. BUT, for a healthy street/performance engine, the 2-bolt caps are fine with longer bolts or studs-------------------YOU END UP WITH THE EQUIVALENT OF A 2-BOLT 350 BLOCK!
(BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THE SMALL JOURNAL AND BIG JOURNAL MAIN CAPS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME DIMENSION FROM THE BLOCK REGISTER TO THE BOTTOM OF THE CAP. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT, PLACE ONE OF EACH ON A FLAT SURFACE SIDE BY SIDE. THE BIG JOURNAL BLOCKS ONLY HAVE LONGER MAIN BOLTS.
After the main bores are opened up for a 3.75 stroke (SB400) crank with 2.45 mains, then the engine can be built exactly as a 383 would be built from a LJ350 block.
Yes, I have experience building a 383 from a SJ327 block by doing the above. I've never heard any complaints since, so I guess it's still doing fine.

SECOND:
Use a 3.75 stroke crank with 2.30 mains (SJ size). And then build the 327 into a 383 just as would be done with a 350 block. This will be the cheaper method, but I don't like those smaller mains on a 3.75 crank.
I have no personal experience building a 383 this way, but my machinist tells me that he has turned SB400 cranks for BOTH 327 and 283 blocks!

A 383 built from either a 350 or 327 block will still have to have the same clearancing and machining processes done to them. There is no way around that. The TWO MAIN clearances that require close attention are the notches at the bottom of the cylinders for the rod bolts and and rod bolt head clearancing for the cam lobes (unless you use rods with cap screws).

WITHOUT QUESTION, the best breathing will only come from aftermarket heads. Period! BUT, aftermarket heads DO NOT have the "correct" appearance of the 68-earlier heads with plain ends and double humps. About the only option here is to open up a set of stock heads, install 2.02/1.6 valves, or at the least do some port matching and bowl cleaning/smoothing. No, this WILL NOT produce the same flow as something like a set of DART Iron Eagles with 215 ports and 2.05 valves, but it will produce a gain over stock valve/port double hump heads, AND, retain a stock look.
I think most of you have seen the "tricks" that I did to a set of 461 heads, simply to retain the "look" of a 57 FI 283 on a SB400 in my 56 Vette.

6T5RUSH

You're right!! Equal time is due here for a setup you proved really humms!

Here ya' go: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...t=Dyno+Results

Aaron, I've got to trip downriver this summer and take in the their cruise. Like to meet ya! Paths should cross.

Jim

Allcoupedup

AAron,
I don't doubt that the 30 30 cam is good and I won't even contest the fact that that it is "better" as that in itself is somewhat subjective but your reasoning has some flaws I feel the need to point out.

You tested the two camshafts in a 302 with a aftermarket intake and HEADERS. Duke's comments about the LT1 pertain only to a 327 with a stock intake and ramshorn MANIFOLDS. You also called your test camshaft a "30-30" but it was really an aftermarket grind camshaft based on the "30 - 30" made by predator.

Please don't reproduce people's comments out of context. Duke was the first to admit that a 30 30 camshaft on an engine that could breathe (intake, heads, exhaust) would be superior to an LT1 camshaft.

BRian

Scott Marzahl

Not to beat a dead horse but if I recall, in order to optimize power with the 30-30 cam, it required a high compression motor that required race fuel. Not really an apples to apples build.