Kid_Again

.......it sez "040" :mad :eek: :U

..i've got everything removed to pull the engine and now notice the block is 40-over....aw poopie...perhaps...i know i can go to 060 on a good block (the car is an early january '66 car, will now look at the block casting date :rolleyes: ).....i suppose the truth will come out once the bores are mic'd but for those who know how to rebuild engines, what's the likelihood of successfully going from 040 to 060?.....010 on either side doesn't sound like a lot to me and i'm assuming the engine has had the crap beaten out of it.......there may be a 502 short block in my future :mad

...'whudya think?

thanks

MELVIN

man, thats a close call on that one. some would say 060 is the largest you can go, some say dont do it. Look at it this way: If you can do it, do so. Rebuild kit, with pistons, rings, all bearings, gaskets, etc, is about $500. Add labor to this. Head job about $200, minus parts

502 short block is about $6500, but does come with a warranty (just got one to replace my 68/l-36) Add labor to this as well if you dont install yourself

Plasticman

Depends upon the taper of the bore, and if any deep gouges. I would recommend sonic testing the cylinders to determine if the walls are thick enough to withstand a .060 bore. Most can, but any core shift when poured can negate this. A sonic test will answer your question (most "good" shops can do this test - so you don't waste money and time).

clem zahrobsky

HI PER BB can be bored .125 over with out any trouble

Mag Red Man

Clem, can the Corvette 396 be taken out even further than .125?

Thanks, Chris

clem zahrobsky

a 1965 corvette 396 can be bored to 427 size 4.250. this can not be done with any other 396 block

kahuner

Hey Kid_Again;

Clem is right on the money. Going to .100" over is done all the time by the engine reman. shops.

With a .060" over bore job, you're only halfway to the limit of the block. And even then, you could revert back to sleeving the block. So you're good to go!

Kid_Again

guys...thanks very much...very helpful to a novice.......

..btw, the engine shop is going to do sonic testing just to be sure..as many of you know, i'm a nervous 'kinda guy anyway and i'd like to have a little assurance of the quality of what's propeling me before i detonate a weak block

the prompt reply is appreciated because i pull the block next week :cheers:

LT1driver

you can always sleeve the block back to standard. as said block can go 125 if needed, but then the end has been reached.

Kid_Again

...pulled the engine today, off to the rebuilder.............BRIGHT sun today (and 70deg, dec 1 on the east coast, for god's sake :rolleyes: ) and i notice that i can still see the cross hatch on the cylinder walls :confused: .....beats the crap outta me - one reason why i pulled the engine was i could turn the flywheel relatively easily by hand even with the plugs in........wtf

....the hell with it, time to warm it over :cheers:

TheOman

Hey Kid

"For What it Is Worth" as the song title said. If you bore it to 454 size and you want to load in a 454 crank I have a set of 454 pistons that are standard bore. BRAND NEW take outs from my LS-6. Engine was never fired , you can still see the ink stampings on a couple of them. I have the GM part numbers if this is of interest. Ya gotta use a 454 crank but your c-rods are OK. Also, they are 10.2 compression with OPEN Chamber heads. They are 11.00 with your Closed Chamber heads. They are forged TRW. I will throw in Rings, Con Rod Bearings and Main bearings ....everything as a set brand new stuff.

Oman

JL66REDCPE

Kid

Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving. Sounds like you have another good project on your hands. Just for my own curiosity, did you perform a leak down and compression test on the engine before you pulled it ??? I would be interested in the results.

john lolli

Kid_Again

TheOman....thanks, i may actually take you up on that if i go that route...i dunno yet...either way, i'll send you mail to let you know what the engine guy says...he has the short block now, did a quick check on 2 clyinders, one is "OK". the other is .001 over at the top and .003 over about 1 inch down and he sez it ain't lookin' too good..again, dunno yet but this guy has been doing big blocks for our club for years and everybody swears by his work...this is worse than waiting in front of the principle's office....the engine guy agrees the engine was done not that long ago...great, great, great :rolleyes:

JL66REDCPE.....never bothered to do any serious testing becuase i knew i was going to replace the heads (valve guides were shot) and i suspected poor compression/blow by and i was probably correct...the crankcase oil just got too dirty too fast....wtf......well, it turns out that i just spent the money a year earlier than planned :yesnod:

...got an even better story - this past saturday was wonderful, drove the roadster from the vaykay place back to the homestead and, maybe a mile or two from home, the tranny locks into 3rd gear (really, really LOCKS)....NOW WTF....put it up on jack stands, trans oil all over trans rear extension and obviously coming out the rear seal - looks like "Mr. Goodwrench" who had the sb roadster before me didn't tighten the trans/bell housing bolts very well (i never thought to check :mad ) and the torquing of the trans case trashed the rear seal and i ran the tranny dry :eek: ....at least that's what it appears to be....NOW i'm becoming philosophical and will probably just go out a buy a reconditioned muncie - we'll see......

ANOTHER story..the water pump on the bigblock was clearly a replacement but i thought i'd rebuild it...pulled the back cover off and they rebuilt it by pressing on to the shaft a STAMPED STEEL impeller - wtf (words now escape me) - might as well just go and buy an aluminum water pump and be done with it....

....ain't discouraged yet :rolleyes: (but sure getting close - where ARE those martinis?????)


[Modified by Kid_Again, 2:27 PM 12/3/2001]

JL66REDCPE

Kid

How did you make out with the transmission problem. Let me know as I may be able to help you on this one. I didnt exactly understand the info re the prior owner not tightening the trans/bellhousing bolts. Did one, or both, fall out completely and cause the problem ???? Also, how did you make out with the block. Sounded to me like it might be ok from your last post. I assume Don is doing the work on it.

john lolli

L71

Oman, 454 and 427 have same bore size

Kid_Again

JL66REDCPE....where do i start :rolleyes:

...well, with the big block, i REALLY lucked out......rich just cleaned up the cylinders and took off a total of .002 and i'm good to go - 3 sets of rings collapsed (THANKS buba) and did not score the walls...i can use the pistons that came with the block...crank looks "OK" to the eye.......the '781 heads are in pretty good shape so i avoided a huge bill on that one....read on ->

...the tranny for the small block is already at ed harnett's in philadelphia and he sez that when it was rebuilt the lower shaft was not set correctly into the keyway, causing the shaft to protrude out the front, against the bell housing, ensuring the tranny would work its way loose......so, the tranny had enough oil that i did not weld it into one piece but the front housing has to be sent out and bushed for a new shaft - probably get that back around the beginning of the year........................AND, since i already had the tranny/clutch/flywheel off the small block, gee, why not pull the engine and get it all over with at once :eek:

...so, i finally look at the head casting numbers and gee, they're off a '67 :U ...wtf, AND the block's .030 over already - many profanities and martinis later, i figure i'll put the money into the block (the car ran really well and it is the correct HH block) and see what happens with the heads since i am in no mood to put money into non #match heads.....at least the pistons are correct and the cam was a solid lifter...................

...the other interesting part of all this nonsense is the correct installation procedure for the center force 2 clutches - you have just a few thousandth's leeway on the runout for the bellhousing opening, mounting surface for the tranny and distance from the clutch fork pivot ball to flywheel....freakin' ph.d. projects but at least i can now do them off the cars......................some good news is i used lars' paint formula for an engine (wolfie's and he has 3 more for me to do) and it came out spectacular....seems like nobody likes to paint engines out here.............

be good and if you have time and want to get some exercise, we're pulling my small block this tuesday, about 9AM - it'll be entertaining to watch a grown man cry (again)


[Modified by Kid_Again, 8:29 AM 12/16/2001]

JL66REDCPE

Kid

Ed hartnett is one of the best on transmissions. He will do a good job.

As far as the heads go, as long as they work well, what is the problem ?? I would check the guides and see if the rockers were riding on the center of the valves and pushrods and put them back on. The 327 heads had a problem whereby they didnt exactly ride in the center due to bad machining. The cure is usually retainers like the big blocks have to keep them straight.

I will be in Parsippany on Tuesday and Rockville MD on Wednesday so I will have to miss the engine pull.

good luck

Kid_Again

...one quick response......the big block had a fundamental problem from the last bubba rebuild....the old mark IV engines required that the cam had to have an oiler groove machined at the back...when bubba installed this cam, he didn't do that...i noticed a clicking valve on the passenger side when i started it up but it would fade, i thought bad tappet...not a chance, because the groove was missing, no oil was getting to the passenger side and when i looked at the cam yesterday, all the lobes for the passenger side were flat...............those of you looking for new cams for old mark IV's take heed :smash:

Tom454

Parsippany??? I lived there from 1980 to 1989.... 1 Fernwood Place. Small world.

RE: The oil issue- this is well documented in most if not all BB Chevy Books. Definitely a Bubba.
Now we see a reason to have the gear-head books sitting in the book rack in the old restroom.

Sorry you are a Bubba victim.

Tom

TheOman

Hey Kid

I am not totally sure about the dates on this but I am not sure your 427 needed that groove. I know the early early 396 engines did need the groove but I think that by the time they got to the 427's the need for the groove was eliminated. Better do some checking. Are you sure that the block is correct for the year? You know I don't give a hoot about numbers but it could be that the block is earlier than the car...ya never know.

I am sure of the following data. Only the 55 265 engines needed the groove. I had one so I am sure. Also when I was learning about BBC's I noted that only the first year BBC's needed the groove. When I learned about BBC and grooves said to myself "Hmm wonder whey they sort of repeated the mistake with the groove on both series engines for one year only"?

Problem is I cannot remember if the 65 limited production Z16 Chevelles counted as year #1 for the Big Block or if 66 counted as year #1 of real production in large quantities. My friend has a 65 Impala with a 325 396 but in 65 the top end motor was a 409 for part of the year and the 325 396 for later in the year.

Just something to check on.

Just my 2 cents

Oman