JoeCool66

I just wanted to share my take on rear speakers for my ’66 vert. My goal was to have an almost stock look but to have good quality stereo. I went with the S&M Electro-Tech conversion of my stock radio plus their dual speaker setup for the stock speaker location. My twist on this was to use component speakers for the rear. I went with very efficient Kenwood 6 3/4 woofers in custom enclosures in the far rear. The sealed enclosures hold the woofers and the crossovers to the external tweeters mounted on the rear quarter panel trim. This location gives excellent sound even when the top was folded down (the low frequencies of the woofer are not noticeably blocked by the folded top). No holds were drilled to mount any of this.

Overall I think it sounds great. You can balance the sound so you are surrounded but there is a definite front soundstage. The woofers give excellent bass that you can feel!! The system has plenty of volume and punch.

The only drawback I have is the iPod input I had S&M add is very sensitive to input level. It does not like the low levels of my earphone jack connection and sometimes will switch over to radio during quiet passages or in-between songs. Irritating but not too bad if you make sure the radio is not tuned to a station before you switch over to ipod. Greg at S&M (who’s been great) says it would be better if I went with a different ipod that had true line-level outputs. …maybe but I like hiding my mini ipod in the ashtray. I can live with the occasional drop for now.

Sky65

Very nicely done!
What is you exterior/interior color combination?

Thanks

Nikko

Great job! What did you use for front speakers? I see the tweeters behind the seats, but did you use kick panels as well?

JoeCool66

My 66 vert is a laguna blue with a dark blue/white interior. Original interior was brightblue but I got it this way and I like the combo.

The front speakers are a pair of 4" speakers mounted in a 6x9 plate and sits in the center stock location. Got these from S&M. I did install them with a baffle to help improve the sound and I believe the sound reflection off the windshield helps with the soundstage. If I was to do this again I might consider better quality coax speakers but I must admit, these sound really good. No kickpanel speakers- didn't need them and I wanted to keep the look as original as possible.

The speaker setup was a series of compromises but I am very happy with the results. You really need be parked to appreciate the sound quality but It sounds great and has plenty of power while cruzin’ with the top down and the sidepipes growling. /joe

6T5RUSH

Joe's66,

NICE approach!! I do like it! You don't mention the use of an amplifier to drive all of this. Is there one in the well behind the seats?

What is holding the woofer enclosures in place? Are they held there stricly by wedging slightly behind the spring perches and the fact that they're bolted together?

You haven't lost your luggage space yet it sounds like you have definitely improved the surround sound. Nice!

Thanks!

Jim

JoeCool66

Thanks...
Don’t need no stink’n amp. The S&M setup provides 45 watts per (180 total) which I thought was plenty. I didn't want to mess with an amp since it would have taken up space and I probably would have had issues with my stock alternator. Instead I chose very efficient Kenwood component speakers (92 dB sensitivity) to get the max SPL. When I crank it up you actually feel the bass inside you!!

I wanted to give up as little space as possible so I even made the sealed woofer enclosure wider on top to increase internal volume while minimizing its footprint. The enclosure is held in place a couple of ways. It’s a tight fit between the spring perches and I used some heavy duty Velcro (3” wide) on the sides and back that hold them firm. Also, I built them so that they sit behind the interior upper lip of body. In an emergency, I expect them to not come flying forward (I hope).

Another thing I did that I think helped was installing a butyl-based foil underlaymet under the carpeting. I went with RAAMmat and although I did it more for heat it did a nice job of quieting the car (as quiet as a convertible with sidepipes )

woodsdesign

Nice set up! How do you like the S & M conversion? I was looking at Antique Auto Radio. I have heard some bad things about the quality of the modern conversions. Can you give me the S & M info.?

JoeCool66

I’ve only had it for about a month but I’m happy with it. My original radio was in good shape cosmetically but it didn’t work very well. I chose the upgrade rather than refurbishing because I wanted to have a better sound system overall. S&M cleaned it up (lens, pointer and tuning mechanism) and upgraded the electronics. It looks great and it keeps the look I wanted. They did a neat job and the radio looks basically the same except the large heat sink in the back is gone (easier to install) and there are two RCA inputs for the ipod. Once installed the radio looks identical to a stock radio. I had them keep and send me all the parts they removed but I doubt I’ll ever use them. It wasn’t cheap – basic conversion was about $430 and when you add the RCA input, speaker and shipment, my bill came in at $500.

Using it takes a little finesse since you need to tune the stations slowly to allow the digital tuner to lock into a station but once it does it’s solid and the feel of the tuning **** is smooth and even. The pushbuttons work normally and always lock in. You do need to remember to turn off the radio before shutting off your engine otherwise you get a nasty pop noise through the speakers. I am also getting a little engine whine through the speakers but I’m sure that’s my own problem that I never knew I had.

My only real issue is what I mentioned about the sensitivity to low level RCA inputs from my ipod. It will sometimes switch back to radio when my ipod is in between songs or playing a quiet passage since its connected via the earphone jack. It’s a bit of a nuisance and Greg from S&M said a different ipod with true line-level output would help the problem. I’m leaving it as is for now since I like hiding my mini-ipod in the ashtray and the 60’s & 70’s rock I listen to doesn’t have many ”quiet passages”

david srour

Thanks for write up. I'm having same problem w my ipod mini cutting in and out. Do you know which ipods have line level output?
also what tweeters did you use and what type of crossover. again thanks

6T5RUSH

Guys,

I contacted S&M inquiring about the system in this install. For those interested in contacting them, scroll to the bottom for the info. Here is the reply from Greg at S&M..."

"Jim,

Thanks for passing on the fourm link. We did the conversion on the radio and provided the front dual speaker. The customer built and installed his own rear speaker system. The conversion can provide up to 45 watts per channel into 4 channels and this is plenty of power for most applications. As this customer stated, he used speakers with a 92db sensitivity. This is the best way to get lots of sound with medium power amplifiers. Every 3db drop in sensitivity requires twice the amplifier power to make up for the loss. A speaker of 89db would require a 90 watt amplifier to get the same sound pressure level as the Kenwoods he used. If the speaker were 86db, it would take a 180 watt amp. Quite a difference and this is where people get issues with sound quality and low volume problems with sound systems.

He also talks about the sharpness of the tuning of the conversion radio. The conversion is a marriage of old and new technologies. This is not an easy thing to accomplish and results in operating characteristics that people are not used to seeing. The actual tuning is done electronically. A computer on the conversion board reads the position of the dial pointer and converts this to a digital tuning signal for the modern tuner. The dial is divided into 200 parts or steps. It is very easy to turn the manual dial pointer so fast as to pass over the stations. Once the tuner locks on a station, you can rock the tuning **** back and forth and the station will stay tuned. Also, if you stop in location 99, and the station you want is really at location 100, the computer will look to either side of location 99 to see if there is a station there and lock onto it. Due to the mechanical slop in the push button mechanism, this is needed to get the buttons to work consistantly. It sometimes takes the computer a second or two to lock in the case you don't stop on exactly the right spot.

On the i-pod issue, he does not need a new or different i-pod. Some of the i-pods have very low output level from the headphone jack. You can buy a special i-pod cable that plugs into the docking connector on an i-pod that provides line level left and right output and black and red wires to power the i-pod and charge its battery. This cable provides enough signal to keep the signal sensing AUX input circuit in the AUX mode. The conversion switches back to radio mode after 15 seconds of no signal on the AUX input. The conversion board used is the Antique Automobile Radio unit. This board is in its 8th generation and works extremely well. The bad reputation came from earlier conversion boards that were analog in nature and would tend to drift. Version 5 and earlier had some problems and we did very few because of the the issues. Version 6 was the 1st digital tuned board and worked very well. It has only gotten better since then. There are also some tricks to installing the board that not all of the people doing installations take the time to do. Below is more information on our conversions:
We can convert your existing AM (or AM/FM) factory radio to AM/FM Stereo with 45 watts into 4 ohm speakers, up to 4 channels - 180 watts total. You would probably want to replace the original speaker(s) and/or add one to the rear deck. We remove all the old electronics and replace with a modern circuit board. This is by far the best solution to improving the sound on older collector cars as the original radio fits correctly and looks correct. The volume, tone, push buttons and tuning still work as normal. The Tone control also can be programmed to function as a balance and fader control as well as a tone control. When you turn the radio on, it comes on in FM. You will need to learn where your local FM stations line up on the AM dial markings. Turn the radio off and back on quickly, it switches to AM. Off and wait 5 seconds and back on and your back to FM. We add a small 3 color Light Emitting Diode (LED) to the front near the "16" on the radio dial ono most radios. The LED lights green for FM mono, yellow for FM stereo, and red for AM. On rolling dial AM/FM radios, ie, 63 - 70's Delcos, we install the LED behind the tuning **** as there is no place for it in the dial area. We clean up the radio, paint the dial pointer, lube and repair any problems with the mechanics. Rechrome and/or cabinet painting is extra. It pays to start with a nice core.

Conversion cost for 1956 and later non-wonder bar/signal seeking radios is $385 for 1 to 4 channels plus $20 return shipping & handling for a total of $405. Rechroming and/or reproduction cosmetic parts are extra.

Separate "Balance" and "Fader" controls (not intergrated with the tone control) (joystick type control for 4 channel 180 watts total option for 12 volt only) adds $25 to the cost.

Conversion cost on 1955 and earlier radios vary depending on type and condition and supply voltage. Many can be done for the $385 price.

CD Changers - We can supply a JVC changer - Model CHX-1500 - modified for direct connection to the converted radio for $279.95. This changer holds 12 disks and will play CD's formatted with MP3 files for very high capacity. The converted radio will switch automatically to CD when the changer is started.

Any after-market trunk mount CD changer with RF modulator will connect to the converted radio via the antenna circuit. The CD transmits its signal through the FM stereo radio. Just set one of the push buttons to the CD changer frequency and start the cd changer via its remote control.

Auxiliary input jacks and a dual RCA plugs to 1/8" stereo phone plug cable for a portable CD player, XM or Siruis radio tuners, MP3 player, i-Pod, or cassette player adds $25 to the price. The front panel LED is unlit in the aux mode. The AUX kit is included at no charge with the purchase of the JVC changer listed above. The radio will automatically switch to the AUX input when an audio signal appears at the jacks. All you need to do is plug your player into the cable and turn it on. When the player stops, the radio will come back on after15 seconds.

Wonderbar, Town & Country or signal seeking radios add from $50 to $150 depending on the model and most of all the condition of the scan mechanics. The sensitivity switch (T&C bars) is wired as the AM - FM selector switch as the new board has no provision for the sensitivity switch. It will either stop and lock on the next station or pass it by if it is too weak for a lock.

8-Track Tape units, either stand alone or integrated with the radio, can also be setup to function with the conversion. Costs will vary depending on the type of unit but usually add $50 to $75 to the conversion for built-in tape units and $75 to $100 for the under dash add-on units. The under dash tape units, when modified will feed the new radio amplifiers directly and the switching will take place when a tape is inserted into the player. The modified player will have only one cable that will plug into the back or side of the radio.

Speakers - We carry 6 x 9, 4 x 10, 4 x 8, 4 x 6, 5 x 7 ovals, 5 1/4", 6" and 8" pin cushion and 3 1/2", 4 1/2" round speakers with very small high energy neodymium magnets that will fit in the older GM and Ford cars where space is limited. The 4 x 8, 4 x 6, 3 1/2", and 4 1/2" speakers sell for $32.95, the 4 x 10" is $36.95, and the remaining sizes for $38.95 each. These speakers are custom made for us in America and work equally well with the original radios or our conversions. All but the 4 1/2" speaker ( 4 ohm) are 8 ohm impedance and will directly replace the 10 ohm Delco speakers. We offer 2 models of Stereo 6 x 9 dual driver speakers that fit in early Corvettes and T-birds. One has more bass response and weaker high end response and sells for $59.95. The other has exceptional mid and high end response but is weaker on the low end and sells for $69.95.

6 Volt Cars - Cars with 6 volt systems (either positive or negative ground) add $110 for a 6 volt to 12 volt booster installed inside the radio. The conversion board will only run on 12 volts negative ground so a heavy converter is required to provide the needed power for the new amplifier. We recommend only running 2 channels with 8 ohm speakers on the 6 volt systems as the booster cannot supply enough current for 4 ohm speakers..

Turnaround time is running 5 - 7 weeks right now. Warranty is 1 year parts and labor. We accept VISA and MC.

To start the process, just package the radio very well, especially around the control shafts and face, and ship to our address below. Include a note indicating what you would like us to do and desired options. Be sure your name, address and phone number(s) are on the note.

If you have further questions, please let me know.

Thank you for your inquiry,

Greg Thompson
S&M Electro-Tech, Inc
8836 Xylite St NE
Blaine, MN 55449
(Toll Free in US) (877)780-2861
(763)780-2861
www.turnswitch.com"

Regards,

Jim

Olustee bus

Nice set up Joe. I am about to install carpet and I want to make sure I have the wiring necessary for such a set up if I decide to go that route in my coupe. I also have the upgraded radio with twin cone speaker for the original speaker area.

What kind of wiring should I run to the back? Can I go ahead and connect it to the radio even if I don't have speakers in the rear?

Thanks

JoeCool66

6T5Rush, good job getting input from Greg at S&M (he was great answering all of my questions before I made the decision). He gave a much better overview than I ever could have. He is right on with the importance of speaker sensitivity. That is why I went with the highest efficiency components I could find…I’m very glad I did. One point to clarify.. Greg converted my radio and it looks 100% stock. No LED, no extra controls. It switches from AM to FM normally. The tone control works normally (and also doubles as a fader and balance).. .actually it’s pretty cool!!

Unfortunately, my iPod Shuffle doesn’t have a special cable…I’ve checked with Apple and other suppliers. The only way to connect to it is via the ear phone jack. Another drawback with my model iPod is that the same connection for playback is for charging and I haven’t found a cable that will let me do both. On the plus side – it holds 250+ songs and fits nicely in the ashtray (with the lid closed).

JoeCool66

david srour, Olustee bus..guys:

The rear speakers were Kenwood KFC-X1700P I bought at Crutchfield as a set (Link: http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...507&c=3&tp=106). It included the woofers, tweeters and crossovers…made it simple All I had to do was make the enclosures out of MDF. Other sources for speaker components and hardware was allelectronics.com and parts-express.com.

I used fairly heavy speaker wire (16 AWG) and routed it under the wire channel under the carpeting on the passenger side door sill. I took the opportunity to add a few extra wires for power, ground and misc. for future stuff I might add (Lojack, fuel shut off… don’t know but better to do it now). I wrapped the wires with non-adhesive wire wrap tape (similar to the rest of the wiring harnesses in the car). The main rear speaker wires are routed all the way to the back and enter the passenger side woofer box. Crossovers are in it (see picture below). The tweeter wires (much smaller gauge) exits that box and go to each rear quarter panel..all under the carpet.

JoeCool66

Forgot to mention...

I'm no expert on ipods but I think most of the other larger models have special cables to directly connect to AUX inputs and also provide power. I’ve seen them but could not find it for my Shuffle. I would go to Apple's site, check out their accessories for the ipod you’re interested in. However I would Google “ipod accessories” and find it cheaper from a 3rd party.

Also, IMO, I think you would be safe connecting speaker cables to a radio (without speakers) as long as you sealed the ends and made real sure nothing shorts (the radio will definitely not like it if a bare end touched a ground or the other wire). To be sure you could always ask whoever upgraded your radio.

kenmo

Cool solution.....

JoeCool66

I wanted to update you on the i-pod issue I was having… sometimes on quiet music passages or in between songs; the automatic circuit in the stereo would abruptly kick over to the radio. The real problem was that my model i-pod (Apple Shuffle) does not have a docking connector so I am forced to use the headphone jack which apparently doesn’t have enough output level at all times.

Well, I’ve been talking with Greg at S&M (www.turnswitch.com the guys that refurbished my stock radio) and he fabricated a special cable adapter that solved my problem. The adaptor has a pair of small line transformers that act like amplifiers and raise the output level of my i-pod. The solution is simple, requires no power and plugs directly in line. I simply replace the cable that took the male 1/8 (3.5mm) stereo plug coming from my i-pod with the new adaptor. The adaptor has dual RCA output plugs going directly to the back of my radio.

It works great and in fact I had to lower the volume on the ipod to keep from overdriving the circuit. Greg was terrific… he heard my problem and created a solution custom made for my application… excellent customer service!!

hope others can benefit from the info..... /Joe

david srour

Thanks Joe for the update. For my Nano I found an adaptor that plugs into docking port and provides true line out. This seems to work extremely well w/ the repro Wonderbar. Does not cut out and music quality is much better.
http://www.sendstation.com/us/products/smartcharge/

5thvet

That is really a great solution to keeping your radio looking stock and having a great sound syste. My radio doesn't work so I like this approach. My speaker wires are not connected to anything but there are two speakers. Was there originally just one or two speakers in a 65?

JoeCool66

All midyears had a single speaker in the center of the front dash - between the eyebrows. ..Glorious, lifelike mono!!
...that's assuming they had a radio at all.

67-427ci

Thanks for the info Joe. Greg converted my radio last march. I just sent it back to him last week to check the bass/treble control and rewire it for 4 channel output (I originally had it done for 2 channel). After reading this, I gave him a call and asked him to make a cable for me. I use a Creative Zen 30gb mp3 player. The radio sometimes looses the signal between tracks.
Roy