Seaside63

I guess the steam is spewing over at the NCRS board since they announced that only NCRS members will be able to post there.

Many members want it even stricter where only members can read the board. (The resistance to an online classified section is that they are afraid that non-members might be able to see the ads)

Am I alone, though, in feeling that I've always gotten better response to questions and better information right here at the Corvette Forum?

I have to laugh at those old guys as they circle the wagons and pull the fence in closer and closer to themselves as their little world rapidly shrinks.

With the internet and forums like this one, where does the value of the NCRS lie? Especially when they know their judging guides are rift with errors and their response to people asking for corrections or clarifications is to banish them.

Has NCRS outlived its usefulness?

Trophy Blue

magicv8

IMO No. For people whose happiness lies in working to put an old Corvette back to appearing as it was delivered, NCRS is a joy. To people who just want to own and drive an old Corvette, NCRS provides literature and a demand for replacement parts that keeps us driving from coast to coast.

The NCRS forum is a problem to those who don't play well together. I have been on road tours and discovered the emnity that some NCRS forum members have for others, as well as the arguments that some of the people who own several old Corvettes get into with other members and with NCRS officers. It detracts from the fun of national road tours and has made the switch to the Hot Rod Power Tour easier. The rodders are really a friendly group, and the power tour generally runs at least a month before the incredibly hot July weather that NCRS people prefer for their national tours. I dunno. Maybe the hot weather contributes to the short tempers.

66L72

nope.
all the guys i have met are great. they were a big help when i restored my 66 for the past 3 years.......just like anything else you can expect to find a whole range of personality types..... i am very thankful for the local expertise and resources that the Ontario chapter provides.....

Hitch

It's unfortunate that the current state of the NCRS is that they feel they have to close the doors to make the organization stronger. It goes back to my thread about why the National location was not publicized. Making the NCRS Board private to members only will not help the origanization but only further reduce the number of persons that post on that board. The NCRS needs as many members as it can get especially those my age.

I'm not sure who is driving the NCRS right now to the direction they are going but someone needs to grab the wheel and do it quick. The NCRS board needs an overhaul to make it more like this forum or many others that are using the same format. The format over there is clunky at best and obsolete at worst.

The NCRS is a great organization as they do a great deal of work for those of us that have these old cars. I once again say that if it were not for the demands of the NCRS that good repop parts would not be as plentiful.

I have to agree with the OP that this forum has a great deal of information and a great comrodery. The one thing I think we lack is what the NCRS board does have. A large base of persons that post accurate information as it relates to the JG for each specific year. The hard core guys on the NCRS board kind of think of the CF crowd as a whole as a JOKE. That is unfortunate as both groups can learn a lot from each other.

I hope that the NCRS can get it's issues ironed out. Dave

Joel 67

Actually, the National location was not published to ensure that registered attendees would get first dibbs on the host hotel. They received this info in their confirmation packet.

But back to the point, I believe the tech board is requiring users to be members as a precursor to making "The Driveline" (NCRS bi-monthly classifieds) available on-line. Members have been asking for this for years. In my opinion, the tech board ought to remain free and for all we know it will, but either way, in order to make "The Driveline" available on-line there needs to be an investment in some sort of authentication software.

Hitch

Sorry but if you are a member it shouldn't matter if you registered for the event or not to know where the location is. That is not a good reason, sorry. There are not that many extra people that are going to just show up and stay at the hotel. It goes to the elitist attitude that some have about the NCRS. The NCRS should not be like some secret club, it should welcome anyone that is interested in the car we all are so passionate about. If the NCRS continues to travel down this path I will seriously question renewal of my dues.

The latest Restorer articles go further to show the down fall of the NCRS. The Restorer read like an full length add for GMPP, Fluidine (sp) dampers and Comp Cams. All of the articles were written by the new editor. I'm not a old geezer opposed to change. I am the one that the NCRS should be worried about alienating as I'm the younger generation that is interested in the hobby continuing. If that is not some thing that the NCRS is interested in then maybe I should just request a refund of this year's dues that I just paid.

66BBDriver

Dave,You and Magic are right on. I am a member of NCRS, but I don't think I would ever put our car in for judging, but I think that their effort has given us a supply of parts for our drivers. There is room in this car world for all the different forms of interest

mdz06vetter

have you voiced ALL "your concerns" to your Chapter BoD and to your Regional Representative - that is where all of your concerns should be addressed, rather than here

also, NCRS is looking for a new editor

Mr D.

I'm a NCRS member and it is just painfull sometimes to read through the threads.

Hitch

Rick you are right these are things that I should voice to my local guys but have failed to. Maybe it's not the right place to voice my concerns but it's the topic of conversation tonight. It seems that sometimes when I voice my opinions to the old guard that I get the pat on the head and a response that okay that's nice.

I fall into the category that I enjoy my car and am appreciative of what the NCRS accomplishes. However I currently am not as active in the NCRS as I could be. I pay my dues and enjoy the Restorer, Driveline, Regional meets and this year I was lucky to be able to attend the National.

It surprises me that the Restorer is already looking for a new Editor. Is it that my comments are not that far off of what the organization read into the last Restorer? Now don't misunderstand, I don't know if I could do better but it seems my observations ring true with more than just I.

Rick, I hate that I missed seeing your car at the National and it would have been nice to meet. That goes for numerous other individuals that were at the National. Dave

hpexpatriot

Their doors ( attitudes) have been long been closed, their noses turned up and their entire attitude one of superiority. I think the supply of parts would have been the same without them, the cars themselves and the level of interest would have drawn suppliers into the marketplace. I hope the NCRS continues to circle around in ever tightning circles until it (they) disappear up their own **** retentive A-holes.

vettebuyer6369

Wow, I'll just not understand the venom against NCRS on this forum sometimes. No, it hasn't outlived its usefulness.

And, in response to your other remark, no offense to this forum but in the world of getting technical (oops, sorry, "historical") Corvette-related questions answered and answered correctly, the NCRS board beats this one hands down. There are quite a few people who offer good information here, but there is such a glut of newbies and simply incorrect information tossed around by wannabe experts. I get Corvette-specific answers there quickly and correctly. I don't know if you are "alone" in thinking otherwise, but I disagree.

One true statement though, is the fact their board is technically outdated and painfully inefficient. They desperately need some new blood in the website area (and a few other areas, of course).

Regarding the OPs original point (the NCRS hate notwithstanding), what's wrong with members only posting there? You often can't read online periodicals without a subscription, so it's not a totally unheard of idea. Plus, with the explosion of the 'Net, and the influx of a lot of potential posters who just might waste a lot of bandwidth, I think its a good idea. Not every site needs to be a wide-open free for all.

hpexpatriot

Come on get past their ootdated board.

They are good at telling how much overspray needs to be on the bellhousing and how many St Louis built cars had ________________ but this is HISTORICAL information NOT technical information. Technical information is "How do I set my floats" ....."How do I rebuild a set of heads"..."How do I ______________" . Information of this type is generic to Holley Carbs and Chevy heads and whatever and it is NOT specific to Corvette heads and engines. Some people (and NCRS types) wanna believe that a casting number makes a part a CORVETTE part and that therefore some sort of special vodoo applies to working on that part. With the exception of FI and Disc Brakes this is just so much tripe. All the parts are outta the Chevy parts bin PERIOD END OF SENTENCE.

I have read that the 250 HP engine was CORVETTE SPECIFC. Indeed the 250 HP engone was unique to some Corvettes. It was also installed in some Chevelles with a different numbers on the pad. To say that the 250 HP Corvette blocks were somehow "special" is nonsense. The combination of parts ( known in manufatturing as a Bill Of Material ) is a little different than other 327 engines but to say that a 250 HP block (more accurately a block from a 250 HP engine installed at the factory in a Corvette) is any different than any other 327 250 HP block is just so much nonsense. It is a block that was a standard 327 built with internal parts for that particular configuration / designation. and stamped to be a 327 / 250 HP engine. It could just as well have been built and designated as a 350 or a 365 HP or a 375 HP engine IF the year was 1965. The fundamental LUMP OF IRON would be the same in all cases.

NCRs nneds to GET A LIFE. These cars are not as special as they wanna think they are. The numbers are different but the parts are the same and the NCRS needs to breath deeply and relax.

All the BS and fall-der-all about this car should have this and that car should have that is easy to figure out with the PARTs book. Example...some people think that some BB engines ( installed in Corvettes ) had thicker cyl walls BECAUSE they were intended to be installed in Corvettes. To this day people are looking for and paying BIG money for these "Special" blocks. Anyone with an level of experience in production management knows that the name of the game is to build the most number of models with the fewest number of different parts To think that a SPECIAL thick wall casting (otherwise idential in function and part number to another thinner wall BB casting) existed is just nonsense, The manufacturing control issues created by this kind of "special" part are incredible expensive and complicated to co-ordinate. In sort this is BS. This kind of nonsense has been fostered by the "numbers" fever that has resulted from the NCRS exultation of the HISTORICAL data (not technical data) for those who want the perfect car.

1955 copper

I don't know! like the saying goes ,birds of a different father fly to gather! I helped write early 53 to 57 JM for NCRS I'm member #182. Had my differences with NCRS so I started SACC, before NCRS I started Vintage Corvettes , have owned many year Corvettes, wrote articles, held work shops even one at Bloomington . NCRS forum as is this forum and other have it's good and bad points. I'm tired of all the politics which is every where, so I just pick the best out from each sight. 55 Corvette now is my thing which is a small group of people that need each other to correctly restore one. My experience is 53 to 57 you cant know all years . I love the BS detail and originality but also love seeing Mods. I'm not a funatic about any car/ I like them all which keeps me out of any inner circle of people .
I think people that express strong feelings on a Corvette subject are lacking respect of others that think different. In the long haul who gives a **** , it ant going to Chang my life but I do always show respect even if I think they are wrong.To me it's a hobby not my life and yes I'm an old SB,A-hole and old getting read to check out.

vettebuyer6369

OK, you made your point(s). You hate NCRS, and you are offended by the horrific semantics sin of our using the word "technical" about Corvette-specific facts and details and you say it should be "historical."

66BlkBB

I don't have any interest in either side of this argument but from reading all of these postings I have to question why this forum, the NCRS forum and any other forum that promotes the restoration, rebuilding, hotrodding, driving and any other aspect of the corvette hobby can't work in conjunction with each other. They all would have their purposes and they all relate to the same vehicle, no matter the year, correctness or anything else. I know that their are some in the NCRS that don't like anything but correctness to the point that it seems to block any original thinking on their part but their are also some guys who like to have the vehicles set up their way, correct or not, who are just as blinded by their thinking when it comes to considering others opinions and views on this hobby. This is not life and death and it isn't rocket science. All of the cars started life as a Chevrolet Corvette (except the kit cars) and will more than likely always use some of the original parts to the cars. Questions should be able to be submitted and answers should be able to be given to any and all who want to promote this hobby. I am not a member of the NCRS as I live to far away from any of the potential meets. My car is not capable of earning any flight awards but there may be some things that I could learn from the NCRS that would just help in the normal aspects of keeping my car reliable and driveable, along with the aspect of keeping original parts for the potential next owner, whomever that may be. This forum is great because we can voice our opinion on it, no matter what. There will always be arguments or disagreements by members as no two people think the same, no matter the subject. The problem with this board is it does not have any "power" to control the hobby like the NCRS does. That, in some peoples eyes, puts this forum inferior to the NCRS. It makes it a "social" forum rather than considering it a potential technical/advisory forum. I for one have learned a lot from this forum. With members who are both NCRS and CF they have given a lot of information that I would never have been able to acquire without digging hard and deep and then possibly not coming up with answers that were provided on this forum.

I do have one thought on the NCRS. If they wish to promote this hobby why would they not allow a potential new member to post a specified amount of posts before being required to join? Remember that you have to pay for your membership to NCRS but not this forum. I first came to know about the NCRS some time ago and wanted to ask some questions but could not because I was not a member. If I would have been able to post a few questions on their forum and gotten some answers, I probably would have joined back when I first got the car. It would be similar to my membership in the NSRA. I have been a member for years and have not attended a national or local event in 8 years. I don't mind spending the money to be a member even though I don't go to events. I get their monthly magazine which keeps me updated, etc. and I get all the information on the national and local stuff in case I do want to attend one in the future.

JMT's and probably not very good ones.

Steve

Wiscane

...me too !
I tried to write several responses but decided to "be good"

Chuck Gongloff

Don't know what the final "shake out" will be on this one, BUT...

here's a little bit of the history, AND the thinking behind the PROPOSED change...

For years, NCRS members have griped about delivery of the "Driveline" magazine. That's the NCRS publication with cars and parts for sale. It's published 6X per year.

It is sent, I THINK, by fourth class mail, or bulk mail. Because of that, and subsequent spotty delivery by the USPS, many members didn't get the Driveline for weeks and weeks after others had gotten theirs. Thus...many of the cars/parts listed were sold.

SO...there has been a movement over the past several years to put the Driveline "online" on the NCRS website, so every NCRS member could access it the moment it was published.

With that thought in mind, it was felt that dues paying NCRS members should get "first crack" at the cars and parts listed in the Driveline.

That has "morphed" into the current discussion about "members only" on the NCRS discussion board.

Personally, I think that is a bad idea, BUT...

I thought I'd share some of the background that has led to this current debate. There is/was no "evil intention".

It was felt, and I agree with this one, that IF the Driveline was placed online, it should be accessed by members only when it is published.



Chuck

ragtopman

I dont have a dog in this fight so it dont make a difference to me but what Dave has to say here is so true. If you alienate people now or place restrictions on certain things and as the current members either die, burn out or just get tired of it all, that group will cease to exist sooner or later unless you can keep the interest going.

Its just like collecting coins. Im sure, for the most part, the bulk of us can remember still getting silver and wheaties, but not any more, so whats to get kids interested in the hobby and keep them there??