Hot Weather and My FI
07-09-2007, 10:00 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Hot Weather and My FI
94 degrees today and difficult hot re-starts with the 62 using Sunoco 94 octane. It was Ok in 80 degree weather, but at 94 degrees it`s staying home. I`m switching to one of the Camaros until the weather cools down. 
Changed my mind, I`m taking one of the Harleys.
Changed my mind, I`m taking one of the Harleys.
Last edited by Ironcross; 07-10-2007 at 03:09 PM.
07-09-2007, 10:29 PM
#2
Race Director
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St. Jude Donor '07
Wally
yep, i know your pain.... mine is down for the summer for a frontend swap, so i'm missing all the FI hot weather 'fun'...
Bill
btw, they have added 10% ethanol to the gas here since the last time i drove mine; it will be interesting to see how it reacts to that....
yep, i know your pain.... mine is down for the summer for a frontend swap, so i'm missing all the FI hot weather 'fun'...
Bill
btw, they have added 10% ethanol to the gas here since the last time i drove mine; it will be interesting to see how it reacts to that....
07-09-2007, 11:35 PM
#3
Race Director
Thread Starter
Your not missing anything. Well yes, the situation when your sitting there with a neat Vette and you embarrass yourself because of lousy gas. And only us FI prople understand the delema while others just think there lousy running because were dummies and dont know what to do. 
But we do know, just put some racing gas in the SOB. 
:
But we do know, just put some racing gas in the SOB. :
07-10-2007, 09:14 AM
#4
Le Mans Master
The last time we discussed spider percolation on this Forum, Brad Zigler at the University of Michigan offered to design and test a thermoelectric spider cooler to fit pre-'63 FI units. I supplied him with a used spider, general design parameters, and some parts funding.
He made some progress initially, but I haven't heard anything since mid-April. At that time he hoped to have a prototype ready to test within a week. The project may be dead now. I just dunno.
I really had hopes this would work out. But, you know, there are a few other things I've hoped for that haven't happened either. Life goes on anyway.
He made some progress initially, but I haven't heard anything since mid-April. At that time he hoped to have a prototype ready to test within a week. The project may be dead now. I just dunno.
I really had hopes this would work out. But, you know, there are a few other things I've hoped for that haven't happened either. Life goes on anyway.
07-10-2007, 09:21 AM
#5
Race Director
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C2 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
Being a very pragmatic person, I've come up with a solution that works every time: Anytime I stop my car on a hot day, I immediately open the hood. This prevents hot air from accumulating around the spider and doing whatever it is that hot air does. When I'm ready to go, my car always restarts instantly and idles smoothly. Always.
I'll admit this looks a little strange. Pull into a restaurant, open the hood, and walk away from the car. What's that all about? Stop at a rest area along the interstate, open the hood and walk away from the car. Huh? Pull in for gas, open the hood as I'm going to check oil, and then go fill the tank, close hood without ever checking oil and then drive away. People probably scratch their heads in wonder. Doesn't matter.
This works for me. And the assurance that the car will restart easily far outweighs the puzzled looks I get from the uninformed masses.
FWIW....
Jim
07-10-2007, 11:27 AM
#6
Intermediate
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Hi Jerry and all. I'm sorry this has dragged on so long and I have not been good about keeping Jerry informed lately. My wife and I have both been consumed with readying our house for sale and finishing our dissertations by fall. I apologize for the delay. My difficulties should have not become your problem. 
As Jerry said, I prototyped a copper fuel fitting elbow which connects the fuel shut-off solenoid to the spider. This prototype incorporated twin thermoelectric coolers with aluminum heat sinks to reject heat away from the fuel before it gets delivered to the spider. My plan was for it to reject enough heat from the fuel at idle/low flow conditions to prevent percolation. My initial tests at the component level (sticking the whole thing in an oven at 200 degF and seeing how cold I could keep the copper tubing) did not work as well as I hoped. I revised how the thermoelectric devices are attached (affects heat transfer) and planned to test again.
I did manage to sneak away from my lab and look at several cars at Bloomington. Thanks to John Neas, Ken Kayser, and Tyler Townsley for letting me look up close at several beautiful 57 FI units.
Besides a break from my lab, this allowed me to see how tight of package space this really is and gave me a couple more ideas.
Thanks for the wake-up call. My wife has told me to stay in the lab and not come out until I have accomplished something useful, so let me answer back with some results and something for Jerry to try on a car (the REAL test). Thanks for the opportunity, Jerry. I sincerely hoped I would have had something for you faster than this.
- Brad Zigler
As Jerry said, I prototyped a copper fuel fitting elbow which connects the fuel shut-off solenoid to the spider. This prototype incorporated twin thermoelectric coolers with aluminum heat sinks to reject heat away from the fuel before it gets delivered to the spider. My plan was for it to reject enough heat from the fuel at idle/low flow conditions to prevent percolation. My initial tests at the component level (sticking the whole thing in an oven at 200 degF and seeing how cold I could keep the copper tubing) did not work as well as I hoped. I revised how the thermoelectric devices are attached (affects heat transfer) and planned to test again.
I did manage to sneak away from my lab and look at several cars at Bloomington. Thanks to John Neas, Ken Kayser, and Tyler Townsley for letting me look up close at several beautiful 57 FI units.
Besides a break from my lab, this allowed me to see how tight of package space this really is and gave me a couple more ideas.Thanks for the wake-up call. My wife has told me to stay in the lab and not come out until I have accomplished something useful, so let me answer back with some results and something for Jerry to try on a car (the REAL test). Thanks for the opportunity, Jerry. I sincerely hoped I would have had something for you faster than this.
- Brad Zigler
07-10-2007, 11:53 AM
#7
Melting Slicks
Brad,
I sincerely appreciate anything you might come up with as this is a problem that affects me too. It sounds as if you are already finding this out, but I would imagine any cooling apparatuses would need to cool the fuel within spider itself, rather than the fuel as it enters. IMHO, the spider is where the real heating and perc occurs, and to prevent this you would need mighty cool fuel.
Just my $.02.
I sincerely appreciate anything you might come up with as this is a problem that affects me too. It sounds as if you are already finding this out, but I would imagine any cooling apparatuses would need to cool the fuel within spider itself, rather than the fuel as it enters. IMHO, the spider is where the real heating and perc occurs, and to prevent this you would need mighty cool fuel.
Just my $.02.
07-10-2007, 01:20 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Several of our Solid Axle guys in the SoCal SACC have been using a small homemade shroud to push outside air under the doghouse and onto the spider. They use 1" flex tubing that has a small 12 Volt computer fan in line. When shutting their cars down for a few minutes they leave the fan running. This seems to make the cars very drivable in hot weather (95*). As little as 20 CFM has a large affect on the spider temperature.
07-10-2007, 10:44 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
Hi Jerry and all. I'm sorry this has dragged on so long and I have not been good about keeping Jerry informed lately. My wife and I have both been consumed with readying our house for sale and finishing our dissertations by fall. I apologize for the delay. My difficulties should have not become your problem.
As Jerry said, I prototyped a copper fuel fitting elbow which connects the fuel shut-off solenoid to the spider. This prototype incorporated twin thermoelectric coolers with aluminum heat sinks to reject heat away from the fuel before it gets delivered to the spider. My plan was for it to reject enough heat from the fuel at idle/low flow conditions to prevent percolation. My initial tests at the component level (sticking the whole thing in an oven at 200 degF and seeing how cold I could keep the copper tubing) did not work as well as I hoped. I revised how the thermoelectric devices are attached (affects heat transfer) and planned to test again.
I did manage to sneak away from my lab and look at several cars at Bloomington. Thanks to John Neas, Ken Kayser, and Tyler Townsley for letting me look up close at several beautiful 57 FI units. Besides a break from my lab, this allowed me to see how tight of package space this really is and gave me a couple more ideas.
Thanks for the wake-up call. My wife has told me to stay in the lab and not come out until I have accomplished something useful, so let me answer back with some results and something for Jerry to try on a car (the REAL test). Thanks for the opportunity, Jerry. I sincerely hoped I would have had something for you faster than this.
- Brad Zigler
As Jerry said, I prototyped a copper fuel fitting elbow which connects the fuel shut-off solenoid to the spider. This prototype incorporated twin thermoelectric coolers with aluminum heat sinks to reject heat away from the fuel before it gets delivered to the spider. My plan was for it to reject enough heat from the fuel at idle/low flow conditions to prevent percolation. My initial tests at the component level (sticking the whole thing in an oven at 200 degF and seeing how cold I could keep the copper tubing) did not work as well as I hoped. I revised how the thermoelectric devices are attached (affects heat transfer) and planned to test again.
I did manage to sneak away from my lab and look at several cars at Bloomington. Thanks to John Neas, Ken Kayser, and Tyler Townsley for letting me look up close at several beautiful 57 FI units.
Besides a break from my lab, this allowed me to see how tight of package space this really is and gave me a couple more ideas.Thanks for the wake-up call. My wife has told me to stay in the lab and not come out until I have accomplished something useful, so let me answer back with some results and something for Jerry to try on a car (the REAL test). Thanks for the opportunity, Jerry. I sincerely hoped I would have had something for you faster than this.
- Brad Zigler
07-11-2007, 02:03 AM
#10
Race Director
It's summer time!
Just park the car and get in the pool with the nekkid babes!
Start driving the car again in 6 weeks.
Doug
Just park the car and get in the pool with the nekkid babes!
Start driving the car again in 6 weeks.
Doug