catball

Hello guys. I'm looking at playing with my ignition :D . I have a 427/400 with original, points distributor ignition setup. Let's say everything is tuned and running as best as can be expected right now and I'd like to switch to electronic. How much performance gain can I expect when switching to HEI and also if you add MSD? Is there anything else I need to know such as "which HEI" or "which cap/wires"? If MSD would also be a big boost, which one? Are there heat considerations with the MSD? It's hot under there! BTW..which plugs do u like best? NGK? Thanks in advance.

JohnZ

You'll get lots of opinions on this one, but what you have now will work very well if it's set up correctly - distributor shaft end-play set correctly (few are) at .002"-.007", and using high-tension points (Borg-Warner A112HP or Accel 28-32 oz.) instead of the stock GM 19-23 oz. points, along with a properly-set up advance curve. I have exactly the same ignition setup you do (with the above-mentioned improvements) on my '69 Z/28 with stock coil and (new) stock wires, and it howls to 6500+ with no problems. If you don't want to fiddle with points, a Pertronix Ignitor II with their new "Flamethrower" coil will reduce maintenance and provide a strong, reliable spark for about $100.00.

If you want to keep your tach, a new tach-drive distributor for an MSD or HEI setup isn't cheap, and the whole setup will add more cost; personally, I don't think you'll see any difference on an essentially stock street-driven car after spending all that money compared to an optimized stock system or a Pertronix setup. So many choices, so little time.. :eek:

StrayDog

Just my 2 cents,,,,,,,,,,I put complete MSD system on my 1966 big/block, specifically, the pro billet mechanical tach drive distributer with vacum advance , went right in & the factory tach works fine....that was 6 years ago & have not touched ignition system since, instantanious starting , smoooooth idle , much improved milage & throttle response , just the immediate starting made it worth it.....worked for me......................... :yesnod: :lol: & :cheers:


[Modified by StrayDog, 7:45 AM 10/3/2001]

stngry63

I have a '63 327. I drive the car quite a bit and usually turn over 6000 rpm every time out. I got tired of replacing points every six months and installed a Mallory Uni-lite in my stock distributor. I also have a high output coil. Folks who have never used one have said that it is unreliable, but I've never had any problems in the past three years. If you change distributors, you may have to get a custom tach drive or cable ordered. Mine uses the old square end cable. The new ones are round with one side flattened.

Tom454

Excellent replies.
I'll bet you cannot measure any difference in performance for a "street" car.... I mean, "quantifiable" difference. At least that is what all of the "How To Hot Rod" books say.

The only benefit I see is the maintenance factor. If you get a setup that uses the points to trigger an electronic module, then you have the best of both worlds... points that will probably never wear out (because of extremely low current), and electronic ignition. Mallory has such a setup. And if the electronics fail, it's just a hop-skip-and-a-jump to put her back to all points. Well, you might need a screw driver too.

If you do get the Pertronix or the Mallory, make sure you buy 2. If you break down (they do fail), you can't walk into any old parts store and get new parts. If you go HEI... with a "standard" set of HEI parts (not all are standard), then replacement parts are no problem.

catball

I think I've got your point guys. I just changed the plugs (been a year and 1k miles) and that tightened things up a bit. It is soooo responsive. First gear at 3k and stomp it...you'd better be ready to hit 2nd quick :D . It is running so well now that I was kind of dreaming about a simple tweak making a bunch of difference. I can see guys who go to the track trying to get an extra tenth might spend $500 on an all electronic MSD system but for a quick "street car", forget it. Thanks for the input. I realize now that to really make a noticeable difference I'd have to pull the motor, rollerize it, heads, big 4 barrel and single intake = 800 hp :jester . Now we're talking. I think I'll do that after I replace this one with one that's not quite in this shape....one I wouldn't mind if I threw a rod. :mad

StrayDog

TOM454, MSD distributer & 6200 box ......if instantanious starting , meaning ,absolutely no cranking none , but VAROOOOOM .... & Smooooth idle , & have not pulled plugs 0R touched distributer in 5 years , my 427 starts instantaniously :eek: even after winter storage :yesnod: & Strong to my self imposed redline of 6000 RPM is considered a maintance factor ( no flame :blueangel: intended) then stick with points or go 21st century , I drive 4000/5000 miles a year of hard driveing & 500 mile road trips no problems just
the type of reliability & function that allows a good worked for me.


[Modified by StrayDog, 9:28 AM 10/6/2001]

TheOman

Ditto to Catball and Straydog.

Just a word. I have an LS-6 powered car and it has A/C (horrors a non original config) With the MSD I can lug the engine down to almost nothing in 5th gear (whoops another non original part, the transmission) and it just pulls away to 6500 RPM without a wimper. With the A/C on around town the car just runs and runs. Much smoother than it was before with the points. considering the Rectangle Port heads and the solid lifter cam the MSD really civilized the car in around town driving.

I am sold!!!! No more points for me.

catball

Good to hear from you Oman! If I were going to keep the car I'd definately replace the points. I have it for sale right now and just thought about making one last tweak to have fun with. I was just trying to find out if I'd get $500 worth of "fun" :D out of it before it goes. This car has been and still is fun, just a bit too expensive. I may try to find a cheaper one so I won't feel so bad about doing all that fun engine stuff. I had an NCRS guy call me about it. Asked me about the jack and stuff. Most of you will love this...I told him I've never looked for and couldn't care less. He is in the cardio unit right now! I guess he has to stop on the side of the road and try to impress someone that he has the original jack with his car... Ok, I give up. what is the format to put a pic on here? "help" doesn't seem to help much.


[Modified by catball, 2:26 PM 10/7/2001]

TheOman

The original jack? Another dork! Tell him "Jack Off" What kinda **** .....Oh Im not going there. I am just ganna go watch the war.

TheOman

Hey I am back. Did ya miss me? Wanna swap for my 66 roadster? Cheaper indeed and mechanically almost 100% purfect now.

Tom454

RE: You's guys with HEI/Electronic ignition... I hear ya. I have the Mallory in my LS5 and as ya'll said... zero maintenance is nice. But... I also have points in my 66 327. Maybe I'll convert it... maybe I won't. I would like to try the Mallory system that is "points driven" next... I like to test theories, rather than rely on hype. Just FYI... My points driven 327 starts instantly and idles smooth as a CD player. In fact, the 327 starts quicker than the electronic LS5. Lots of variables in this arena. Lots of theories to test.

427Hotrod

I like jumping in here on these discussions just to give another outlook.

I have the Accel points in my stock dist. with mods to the advance curve. The same set of points have been in it for 4+ years now. They still look fine and have not moved at all. The previous stuff I used was all over the place. Every time I drove it the dwell would move drastically.

I cheeked up the $15 for the Accels and that problem went away.

But I did add a MSD 6 box to it later on. The ease of starting ( thought it was Ok before!) and low speed driveability was improved dramatically. Plug life is fantastic. No fouling even with the Dominator.

So, the points aren't that big of an issue. They can work great if set up right. Of course a nice MSD dist. is even better I'm sure, but it sure is fun to tell folks it runs points and watch their faces. We hit 7500 on the dyno and they never missed a beat.

And with an MSD they will last forever. The current flow is much less.

Plus if anything dies in the MSD system, you can be back to pure points in no time. I hate walking!


JIm