Title Search--65 Fuel Car
06-27-2006, 12:22 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Title Search--65 Fuel Car
Has anyone had experience with a title search or title search company.I have a customer with a beautiful 65 fuel car,Marroon with White int. but just discovered the frame is 1963.The owner is now worried that the car was built from other cars.He would like to know how to do a title search.Does anyone know how to tell if a fuel car is real?Any help would be appeciated.Thanks in advance!!!
Roger
Roger
Last edited by ...Roger...; 06-27-2006 at 12:57 PM.
06-27-2006, 01:01 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
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Other than maybe finding out that the car had a salvage title issued at one time, I'm not sure what you are hoping to find out. You already know the frame is a '63. I'd try to authenticate the VIN and trim tags first, then work my way back through the previous owners. The real issue is what did the buyer think he was buying, how was it represented and what did he pay for. You could start with a shell with a good title, make it into anything you wanted and the title would not look a bit different.
06-27-2006, 01:40 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
We dont think it is a real fuel car.We would like to have a previous owner verify one way or the other.We traced it back to a guy who owned it for 17 years who said the car was correct but he died last year.When the car was being judged some guys came up at the show and said they new the guy that built the car from scratch and that he had died.There is no tag on the injector.Emblems on front fenders have been filled in and redrilled.Most of the glass in the car has the wrong date coding.The car was represented as very rare and the only 65 fuel car ever built with "white interior"- the interior code is Bk/V-which is black vinyl
Last edited by ...Roger...; 06-27-2006 at 02:54 PM.
06-27-2006, 08:58 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by dwncchs
The car was represented as very rare and the only 65 fuel car ever built with "white interior"- the interior code is Bk/V-which is black vinyl
06-28-2006, 02:31 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by dwncchs
The car was represented as very rare and the only 65 fuel car ever built with "white interior"- the interior code is Bk/V-which is black vinyl
06-28-2006, 04:53 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by JohnZ
There is no such trim combination code as "Bk/V" - if that's on the trim tag, the tag is bogus.
06-28-2006, 05:52 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by dwncchs
Oh you ask how much he paid,had to call him to find out.$68,000 at Bloomington 2 years ago.
Now that you know this is a made up car, like a lot of them, what do you think it's worth now? If it's being juged, it must look good. If I assume it drives as good as it looks, I'm curious what you/the owner thinks the value is.
By the way, I don't believe there is any way to draw a conclusion that there was only "one" '65 fuelie with white interior. It is true the white interiors were not common and few fuelies were sold.
Are you hoping to find the proper person to name in your lawsuit as a defendent by doing a title search? That's the only reason I could see for doing one.
06-28-2006, 06:44 PM
#10
Safety Car
Originally Posted by kellsdad
So, does this mean that if I wait until one of my car's previous owners dies I can claim the car is anything I want and blame the dead guy for fraud if I get caught?
06-28-2006, 07:10 PM
#11
Safety Car
My 65 coupe #2111 was black with white interior
65 Fuel cars have been my all time favorite car
. I have been survaying them since 1977 with good friend Carl Cruz. Currently we have 90 roadsters, 111 coupes, 94 units with their vin numbers and 6 engines with all their stamps intact. Some owners have supplied every little bit of info that exists. Others have not, but at least shared the vin #, color and options as it is today.
White interiors, although rare, were not uncomon in fuel cars. The unfortunate thing with the car in question is that it 'appears' to have been made up. Filled in cross flag holes on the front fenders is the first major clue. Engine wire harness modification is another. Remember there is a start wire solenoid to the injector that was activiated by the start circuit of the ignition.
The radiator support is another major area. The support with the large air hole that supports the s-tube is not a rare item, as that unit was issued for years by Chevrolet parts for a service replacement if a 63-67 small block was in a collision and the body shop needed a new one. The service replacement however, was different from the 'original' installed at the factory when these cars were built.
The fact that only 771 were built in the first place makes authenicating them difficult, as many people have NEVER seen a real one except at a NCRS National Convention or Bloomington Gold show. And those examples have been massaged way beyond the 'original' untouched 11,241 mile original example that recently sold at Bloomington for record dollars.
Remember........paperwork, paperwork, paperwork. If not available, at least some judging certificates will add creditability as at least the car has been inspected by 'experts'
Finally, when buying a vintage Corvette, hire an 'expert' to go with you to inspect a car before you buy it. Get it on the service rack........take the tires off........spend an afternoon crawling all over the car. If a seller is reluctant, then maybe he does not know or does not want to know the real truth. And once you have learned what you have already revealed here, move on to another car. We will all see that rare maroon / white car at the next auction.........far from where ever you live.
. I have been survaying them since 1977 with good friend Carl Cruz. Currently we have 90 roadsters, 111 coupes, 94 units with their vin numbers and 6 engines with all their stamps intact. Some owners have supplied every little bit of info that exists. Others have not, but at least shared the vin #, color and options as it is today.White interiors, although rare, were not uncomon in fuel cars. The unfortunate thing with the car in question is that it 'appears' to have been made up. Filled in cross flag holes on the front fenders is the first major clue. Engine wire harness modification is another. Remember there is a start wire solenoid to the injector that was activiated by the start circuit of the ignition.
The radiator support is another major area. The support with the large air hole that supports the s-tube is not a rare item, as that unit was issued for years by Chevrolet parts for a service replacement if a 63-67 small block was in a collision and the body shop needed a new one. The service replacement however, was different from the 'original' installed at the factory when these cars were built.
The fact that only 771 were built in the first place makes authenicating them difficult, as many people have NEVER seen a real one except at a NCRS National Convention or Bloomington Gold show. And those examples have been massaged way beyond the 'original' untouched 11,241 mile original example that recently sold at Bloomington for record dollars.
Remember........paperwork, paperwork, paperwork. If not available, at least some judging certificates will add creditability as at least the car has been inspected by 'experts'
Finally, when buying a vintage Corvette, hire an 'expert' to go with you to inspect a car before you buy it. Get it on the service rack........take the tires off........spend an afternoon crawling all over the car. If a seller is reluctant, then maybe he does not know or does not want to know the real truth. And once you have learned what you have already revealed here, move on to another car. We will all see that rare maroon / white car at the next auction.........far from where ever you live.
Last edited by jimgessner; 06-28-2006 at 07:13 PM.
06-28-2006, 11:11 PM
#12
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by MikeM
Now that you know this is a made up car, like a lot of them, what do you think it's worth now? If it's being juged, it must look good. If I assume it drives as good as it looks, I'm curious what you/the owner thinks the value is.
By the way, I don't believe there is any way to draw a conclusion that there was only "one" '65 fuelie with white interior. It is true the white interiors were not common and few fuelies were sold.
Are you hoping to find the proper person to name in your lawsuit as a defendent by doing a title search? That's the only reason I could see for doing one.
By the way, I don't believe there is any way to draw a conclusion that there was only "one" '65 fuelie with white interior. It is true the white interiors were not common and few fuelies were sold.
Are you hoping to find the proper person to name in your lawsuit as a defendent by doing a title search? That's the only reason I could see for doing one.
06-29-2006, 09:50 AM
#13
Safety Car
What is the vin? It might be in my syrvey?
Since 911, it is about impossible to get any state DMV to give out history of prior owners. Good luck looking.
Liike I said, I have been tracking these cars since 1977. I just might have some prior history on it.
Liike I said, I have been tracking these cars since 1977. I just might have some prior history on it.
06-29-2006, 06:25 PM
#14
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by jimgessner
Since 911, it is about impossible to get any state DMV to give out history of prior owners. Good luck looking.
Liike I said, I have been tracking these cars since 1977. I just might have some prior history on it.
Liike I said, I have been tracking these cars since 1977. I just might have some prior history on it.
09-09-2006, 10:59 PM
#15
Race Director
Thread Starter
Update--Deal reversed--Customer got a check for $74,000 from the Texas dealer and returned the car.The car was traded before it left Ohio.Last known owner-Mershons World of Cars -Springfield,Ohio
Last edited by ...Roger...; 09-09-2006 at 11:05 PM.
09-10-2006, 01:19 AM
#16
Safety Car
Positive Dealer
Great to see that the Texas dealer is a stand up guy. Most people are honest, even the dealers. But he obviously now has a car on his hands that is worth far less, than the 'real deal'
09-10-2006, 04:12 AM
#17
Originally Posted by JSB69
Other than maybe finding out that the car had a salvage title issued at one time, I'm not sure what you are hoping to find out. You already know the frame is a '63. I'd try to authenticate the VIN and trim tags first, then work my way back through the previous owners. The real issue is what did the buyer think he was buying, how was it represented and what did he pay for. You could start with a shell with a good title, make it into anything you wanted and the title would not look a bit different.
Last edited by keithkhd1; 09-10-2006 at 04:15 AM.
09-10-2006, 07:57 AM
#18
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by jimgessner
Great to see that the Texas dealer is a stand up guy. Most people are honest, even the dealers. But he obviously now has a car on his hands that is worth far less, than the 'real deal'
Last edited by ...Roger...; 09-10-2006 at 08:04 AM.
