C2 to C4 Conversion; Pictures/Info Wanted
07-04-2006, 04:06 AM
#41
Originally Posted by GTS34
I was under the impression a stock body wouldn't work on the Mid America or D&D frame with the 4" round tube chassis. The Grandsport floors have the round detent (bubble) to allow the large 4" tubes to fit directly underneath the floors, unlike a stock corvette where the frame rails are tucked up into the rocker panel area.
07-05-2006, 12:12 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Mecom Racer
What about using a Grand Sport style frame like mine. Any C2 body will bolt to it, it's "period correct" looking and may cost less than the SRIII. Contact Jeff Leech at 309/787-5119 for pricing.
09-04-2006, 09:25 PM
#43
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tranny question
I'm looking into doing a C2 with C4 suspension on either an SRIII frame or a Streed Shop frame. Was wondering about the transmissions fitting. Will a stock 6 speed from an original LS1 or LS2 fit or do I need to buy a 5-speed Tremec tranny?
Also, I see an automatic tranny in one of the above pics. Any mods needed for that install?
Also, I see an automatic tranny in one of the above pics. Any mods needed for that install?
09-04-2006, 10:20 PM
#44
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OK, say you had no interest getting involved with a project and you just wanted to drop the car off ... you have a solid axle and you want C5 drivetrain and C4 or C5 suspension upgrades...
-how long?
-how much?
-better to sell the car and look for a turn-key? Why?
-better to pay for stock frame conversion, or to have the body put on a tube and resell the stock stuff?
-can the stock frame take more minor suspension upgrades that are worth it, or is a conversion the only way?
-how long?
-how much?
-better to sell the car and look for a turn-key? Why?
-better to pay for stock frame conversion, or to have the body put on a tube and resell the stock stuff?
-can the stock frame take more minor suspension upgrades that are worth it, or is a conversion the only way?
09-04-2006, 10:59 PM
#45
Safety Car
Originally Posted by Vettebuyer5863
OK, say you had no interest getting involved with a project and you just wanted to drop the car off ... you have a solid axle and you want C5 drivetrain and C4 or C5 suspension upgrades...
-how long?
-how much?
-better to sell the car and look for a turn-key? Why?
-better to pay for stock frame conversion, or to have the body put on a tube and resell the stock stuff?
-can the stock frame take more minor suspension upgrades that are worth it, or is a conversion the only way?
-how long?
-how much?
-better to sell the car and look for a turn-key? Why?
-better to pay for stock frame conversion, or to have the body put on a tube and resell the stock stuff?
-can the stock frame take more minor suspension upgrades that are worth it, or is a conversion the only way?
Steve,
Those are pretty loaded questions.
I think that you could get a car turn-keyed in about 8 months, depending on the backlog at the shop doing the work.
The price will be pretty much dependant on on what options and how much Eye-candy you want! You should be able to get a rolling chassis for about $12 K without engine or trans. Add in the engine and trans of your choice, and you could be anywhere from $18K and up. If you were using your original engine/trans, you could really save some money, however, almost everyone I know who has done such a conversion, goes with more modern drivetrains. I am real partial to the LS1 or LS2, and you can buy one of these complete low-mileage take-outs for $4K to $8K, and this will include the engine, trans and all harness, computers and acessories.
A turn-key car can be a good choice, but these cars seldom come on the market, so the availability is limited and you might not like the color, engine or a myriad of other choices. You can pay someone to build you a turn-key car, but I would not expect to get out the door for much less than $150K! The guys building these cars have a big backlog of guys waiting for one of these cars. A friend of mine, Billy Dawson, builds C1 cars, and he sold a C1 that he had just completed at Carlisle for $140K.
I would always go for a new frame, regardless of design. The value of a nice C2 chassis is just to great to justify cutting one up. I think that you will always come out money ahead by selling your original chassis and buying new.
The stock frame can be improved on with a number of aftermarket suspension upgrades without cutting on the frame. Once again, most guys going this route are going for a complete modern running gear with a stock-appearing C2 body on top of it. I personally would never consider cutting up a good, original car to do this with, but there are plenty of project cars out there that are perfect candidates for one of these conversions.
Regards, John McGraw
09-04-2006, 11:43 PM
#46
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Steve, take a look at this Ebay ad for starters -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESE%3AIT&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESE%3AIT&rd=1
09-04-2006, 11:44 PM
#47
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Very helpful answer, John. Thanks. I agree, my questions were very open-ended... I am kicking this idea around and I'll still in the "I dunno" stage.
My issues are these... I had a '63 TPI conversion car that I had a lot of fun with. I will admit I took the long route in putting it together... parts bought independent of one another, custom harness made, chip burned. By the end of the process I was kinda burnt out. While I know the "blueprint" of a more streamlined project now, I simply don't have the time or patience for a full-on project these days. I know, old and lazy. If my vintage Corvette isn't available to drive for a significant amount of time these days, I consider it useless. I still have the C5, but it's not the same.
My '58 is a very correct looking driver, with a NOM that looks right. However, when I think of a driver, I think of a nice LS-1 squeezed in there with suspension upgrades... how can I go wrong? But again, I don't have the interest in doing another project.
I saw that purple RetroVette at Bloomington, which sold at auction for $150k. A little over the top for me, but a nice job. It was on ebay recently from a place in Texas, a no sell at $136k. I'd pay good money for the right car, but a buck-and-a-half? Not me. They are bringing it, though.
Oftentimes the turnkey car is a great way to buy (how many times do you see custom cars people dump $75k in and sell for half their "investment?") but as you point out... these conversions don't sell for cheap and they just aren't all that available.
My buddy, a Corvette mechanic had a '59 that he bought a tube frame for and was starting such a project. Unfortunately he closed and dumped the whole thing while I was still in the "stock" stage.
I saw a '69 roadster ZR-1 motor conversion on ebay recently... interesting. I guess I'll just have to keep thinking about it...
My issues are these... I had a '63 TPI conversion car that I had a lot of fun with. I will admit I took the long route in putting it together... parts bought independent of one another, custom harness made, chip burned. By the end of the process I was kinda burnt out. While I know the "blueprint" of a more streamlined project now, I simply don't have the time or patience for a full-on project these days. I know, old and lazy. If my vintage Corvette isn't available to drive for a significant amount of time these days, I consider it useless. I still have the C5, but it's not the same.
My '58 is a very correct looking driver, with a NOM that looks right. However, when I think of a driver, I think of a nice LS-1 squeezed in there with suspension upgrades... how can I go wrong? But again, I don't have the interest in doing another project.
I saw that purple RetroVette at Bloomington, which sold at auction for $150k. A little over the top for me, but a nice job. It was on ebay recently from a place in Texas, a no sell at $136k. I'd pay good money for the right car, but a buck-and-a-half? Not me. They are bringing it, though.
Oftentimes the turnkey car is a great way to buy (how many times do you see custom cars people dump $75k in and sell for half their "investment?") but as you point out... these conversions don't sell for cheap and they just aren't all that available.
My buddy, a Corvette mechanic had a '59 that he bought a tube frame for and was starting such a project. Unfortunately he closed and dumped the whole thing while I was still in the "stock" stage.
I saw a '69 roadster ZR-1 motor conversion on ebay recently... interesting. I guess I'll just have to keep thinking about it...
09-04-2006, 11:51 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by 90ZR1
Steve, take a look at this Ebay ad for starters -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESE%3AIT&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESE%3AIT&rd=1
09-04-2006, 11:54 PM
#49
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Check out this ebay item for a turn-key c2 - 110002310639
The auction is closed but I don't think he sold this car. The owner had posted here on the forum a while back.
- jon
The auction is closed but I don't think he sold this car. The owner had posted here on the forum a while back.
- jon
09-05-2006, 12:24 AM
#50
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09-05-2006, 12:11 PM
#51
Melting Slicks
John's observations are right on and I agree with everyone of his comments. The only other observation I would add, regarding cost, is the level you take a car to. That's where the extra labor costs add up quickly unless you do it yourself.
Turnkey cars appear on e-Bay every once in a while and there were at least two or three at the B-J auction. While there's no accurate average price you often see them in the $150k range on e-Bay and one C1 (with a ZL-1 engine) sold for $275 at this year's B-J auction. I also know of a private sale of a C1 for $180k.
Candidly, while in the midst of doing one of these projects, I often wonder if the real smart folks aren't the ones buying completed cars...
Rich Lagasse
Turnkey cars appear on e-Bay every once in a while and there were at least two or three at the B-J auction. While there's no accurate average price you often see them in the $150k range on e-Bay and one C1 (with a ZL-1 engine) sold for $275 at this year's B-J auction. I also know of a private sale of a C1 for $180k.
Candidly, while in the midst of doing one of these projects, I often wonder if the real smart folks aren't the ones buying completed cars...
Rich Lagasse
09-05-2006, 03:08 PM
#52
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Well, I'll be going back to B/J in January, so maybe I'll extend my credit line...
...or see if one is selling on Thursday when the cameras are off...
...or see if one is selling on Thursday when the cameras are off...
09-05-2006, 09:40 PM
#53
Safety Car
Originally Posted by richscorvettes
John's observations are right on and I agree with everyone of his comments. The only other observation I would add, regarding cost, is the level you take a car to. That's where the extra labor costs add up quickly unless you do it yourself.
Turnkey cars appear on e-Bay every once in a while and there were at least two or three at the B-J auction. While there's no accurate average price you often see them in the $150k range on e-Bay and one C1 (with a ZL-1 engine) sold for $275 at this year's B-J auction. I also know of a private sale of a C1 for $180k.
Candidly, while in the midst of doing one of these projects, I often wonder if the real smart folks aren't the ones buying completed cars...
Rich Lagasse
Turnkey cars appear on e-Bay every once in a while and there were at least two or three at the B-J auction. While there's no accurate average price you often see them in the $150k range on e-Bay and one C1 (with a ZL-1 engine) sold for $275 at this year's B-J auction. I also know of a private sale of a C1 for $180k.
Candidly, while in the midst of doing one of these projects, I often wonder if the real smart folks aren't the ones buying completed cars...
Rich Lagasse
You are right though, if we tried to recover $20 an hour for all of our work, we would have to get $200+ for these cars!
To me, this is way more entertaining than almost anything I can think of.
Regards, John McGraw
09-06-2006, 12:14 PM
#54
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by John McGraw
Oh come on Rich, if you were not spending all your time woking on these cars, what else would be doing, watching the boob tube?
You are right though, if we tried to recover $20 an hour for all of our work, we would have to get $200+ for these cars!
To me, this is way more entertaining than almost anything I can think of.
Regards, John McGraw
You are right though, if we tried to recover $20 an hour for all of our work, we would have to get $200+ for these cars!
To me, this is way more entertaining than almost anything I can think of.
Regards, John McGraw
As they say, "when you're right; you're right"......
It seems that we enjoy the design and building part as much or more than anything else.But, I have to admit that there are a few times during a project when sitting back on a nice beach watching the sunset sure sounds appealing at the time .........
Rich Lagasse
09-06-2006, 12:29 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by richscorvettes
John,
As they say, "when you're right; you're right"...... It seems that we enjoy the design and building part as much or more than anything else.
But, I have to admit that there are a few times during a project when sitting back on a nice beach watching the sunset sure sounds appealing at the time .........
Rich Lagasse
As they say, "when you're right; you're right"......
It seems that we enjoy the design and building part as much or more than anything else.But, I have to admit that there are a few times during a project when sitting back on a nice beach watching the sunset sure sounds appealing at the time .........
Rich Lagasse
its mostly your fault that I am not happy with my 67. I want to be like you.
I am kicking around doing a project like yours...on a smaller scale of course and using a convertible but I am not sure if i want to let my 67 go. It is really nice on the other end of the spectrum. If I dont sell it...I dont have the seed money or the space for a new project...another dilema Tim
09-06-2006, 12:40 PM
#56
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by tdelph
Rich,
its mostly your fault that I am not happy with my 67. I want to be like you. I am kicking around doing a project like yours...on a smaller scale of course and using a convertible but I am not sure if i want to let my 67 go. It is really nice on the other end of the spectrum. If I dont sell it...I dont have the seed money or the space for a new project...another dilema
Tim
its mostly your fault that I am not happy with my 67. I want to be like you.
I am kicking around doing a project like yours...on a smaller scale of course and using a convertible but I am not sure if i want to let my 67 go. It is really nice on the other end of the spectrum. If I dont sell it...I dont have the seed money or the space for a new project...another dilema Tim
Naw, you don't want to be like me. Take my advise and head for the sunset at the beach.......
Often I think these projects are an addiction. I believe they even now have a name for it - known as "PAS" - for Project Addiction Syndrome - there is no known cure......
You have a beautiful 67 - enjoy it!
Rich
Last edited by richscorvettes; 09-06-2006 at 12:42 PM.
09-06-2006, 02:50 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by richscorvettes
Tim,
Naw, you don't want to be like me. Take my advise and head for the sunset at the beach.......
Often I think these projects are an addiction. I believe they even now have a name for it - known as "PAS" - for Project Addiction Syndrome - there is no known cure......
You have a beautiful 67 - enjoy it!
Rich
Naw, you don't want to be like me. Take my advise and head for the sunset at the beach.......
Often I think these projects are an addiction. I believe they even now have a name for it - known as "PAS" - for Project Addiction Syndrome - there is no known cure......
You have a beautiful 67 - enjoy it!
Rich
After seeing your work, one can only try to be like you.....it would take a lifetime of effort to achieve the quality of craftsmanship seen on your cars. I am content with the advices you give me every now and then...l owe you a scanned brochure....if I can only remember to put it on my briefcase in the morning.......
09-06-2006, 09:25 PM
#58
Drifting
Originally Posted by richscorvettes
Often I think these projects are an addiction. I believe they even now have a name for it - known as "PAS" - for Project Addiction Syndrome - there is no known cure......
Rich
Rich
I'm not even done with this project and I'm already thinking of the next one!!
09-06-2006, 09:57 PM
#59
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2019 Corvette of the Year Winner
St. Jude Donor '15
Originally Posted by noelga
