Darren61

After having my 61 pretty much mothballed for almost 5 years due to some personal challenges, I have finally gotten it back into running shape this season. I am still very much a newbie at all of this, so please be gentle (for ex, I adjusted a carb's idle and mixture for the first time today)

Basically, it seems like the car no longer charges the battery. I have to go buy a new voltmeter, but the battery gauge doesn't go over the 0 mark--although every once in a while it might drift just past 0 for a couple of seconds. When at idle (with or without the Powerglide in engaged), the battery gauge flutters and the dash "brake" light flicker very slightly (when parking brake is engaged) as if there is an intermittent connection. The lights/gauges do seem to become more consistent if the engine is run at higher rpm, but the battery gauge doesn't show any charging activity--unless the lights or radio are on, it will sit at 0.

I don't think it is a gauge problem, as I did require a jump to make it out of a parking lot, and when returning from a decent amount of driving, the battery will take a good amount of juice from a 6 amp charger.

I am guessing that it could be poor connections, a stuck/defective voltage regulator, or a dying generator. The voltage regulator is relatively new--maybe 2 years old (not orignial). The tach works fine, so the generator is at least turning properly. The battery does take a charge from an external charger.

I know how to test if the battery is charging (short the battery w/ the voltmeter at the terminals--should read 12.6 or so when not running, and 13-15 when running at 1500-2000 rpm.) However, I am not sure how to test the individual components to track down the problem.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also, is there a way to get to the voltage regulator without removing the generator? Mine is visible below the generator and bolted to the inside of the fender, which I believe is the stock location, but it seems that it would be difficult to access without removing the generator.

Thank you for your help

ffas23

I don't know much about C-1's but on my C-2, C-3 and my other collector cars plus everyday vehicles I have been using a Milton model #1260 Battery Tester with starter and charging system test features for years. I have mentioned about it on plenty of occasions on this forum. It is worth its weight in gold in showing where your problem lies. It even has a load test feature to test your battery. On my C-2 and my other older GM vehicles that have an alternator plus outside regulator I keep a spare working regulator around for test purposes in case the vehicle isn't charging. On the C-3 and later vehicles with the regulator mounted inside the alternator you really don't have much choice but to replace the alternator or try a new internal regulator in side the unit. I don't know exactly what outside regulator is used with the earlier GM generators but it may pay for you pick up an extra regulator also for test purposes. The aftermarket regulators for the C-2 which is the same for other earlier GM cars with alternators is still an inexpensive part that makes it worth keeping an extra around just in case it is needed or for testing.

Chuck Gongloff

If I'm reading correctly, you still have the original generator. Often times, after long storage, repeated battery changes, etc, the generator loses it's polarity, and needs to be re-sparked or repolarized.

It could be connections, etc, as you have stated, but try this. It's very simple.

Take a wire, or one cable from a battery charger. Attach it to the POS terminal of the battery. Touch and "spark" the ARMATURE post on the generator. Make sure you spark the ARMATURE terminal and not the FIELD terminal.

That will correctly polarize the generator so that the armature has the correct "charge" in relationship to the field. Try that and see if it starts charging.

Remember, just a TOUCH or a SPARK. You don't need to hold the wire or cable on the A terminal. Chuck

tgriffin

I had that problem with my 66 coupe. I changed the voltage regulator, alternator and battery. The problem turned out to be the plugs that plug into the voltage regulator. They had rusted and weren't getting a good connection.

Darren61

I'll try all of these things--and I do have the original style generator in my car--although I don't think it's original to the car. It could be, but not much in this driver is original--62 327 block, Holley carb, new master cylinder and water pump, etc.

A couple of questions:

1) which is the armature post and which is the field post? There are 3 wires attached out of the generator. When looking from the front of the car, there is one that is not on a post but attached to some cylinder contraption, and behind it there are two other wires. The on closest to the driver side is labeled "F" (for field?) and the passenger side one is labeled "V" (is this actually A?)

2) I will pick up the Milton system (or something similar today).

3) If I do have to access the voltage regualtor, how do I get to it? Do I have to remove the generator to access it? Can I reach it from underneath the car?

Thanks for the quick responses...I really appreciate it.

Chuck Gongloff

You should have 3 "wires" or sets of wires going to the generator.

One is FIELD, marked F
Another is ARMATURE, marked A (or V---upside down A)
The other is the armored cable ground to the case of the generator. It doesn't go to a terminal...it bolts to the generator case. It's not really a "wire".

Spark the A terminal.

Don't know what the "Milton System" is.

Not familiar with where your regulator is, but you could likely loosen the generator brace, loosen a few bolts where it mounts to the exhaust manifold, and swing it up and out of the way to get to the regulator.

If you think you have a problem, you can take both the generator and regulator to an automotive electrical shop and have them run together on their test machine. It's usually free....might cost a few $$$

That'll tell you if the problem is generator/regulator.

Try the spark trick first. Chuck

ffas23

Here is a link for the Milton Model #1260 Battery, Starter and Charging system testor: http://www.arizonatools.com/catalog/detail/17287/

This link is just to show you this Milton Item that is made in the USA. This item can be purchased at a better price then listed in the link from other sources and there are also Imported knockoffs of this testor being sold out there. How good they are I have no idea but company's like Harbor Freight are selling made in China copies. I own a USA made Milton and have had it for years and it is well worth the money it sells for.

Darren61

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you guys...I just bought a house and it has taken much of my free time to get things in order there. Right now, the vette has a very nice (and expensive) home in our new garage, but we are not moving into the house for another month.

Anyway, I purchased a basic voltmeter--the auto store didn't have the Milton system or anything else like it.

When I use the voltmeter and short the battery, it reads 12.6v whether under load, at idle, or not running. I think that confirms that the charging system is not working properly.

If I short the field and armature posts, I get 12.6 when at idle, but it drops to around 2v if under load--any ideas here? Is that proper?

I am not sure what else to test. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help.

Darren61

Another symptom: When idling or off, the lights and turn signals do not seem to operate at full power--headlights are very dim, and the turn signals blink very slowly (if at all). However, when the engine is revving (either when in D or N), the lights increase in intensity and the turn signals return to normal operation.

This suggests that the generator is producing a current to power the lights and turn signals, but for some reason it is not charging the battery. Any ideas what to check?

Also, I did try sparking the armature post as suggested, but that didn't seem to help the problem.

Thanks again.

JohnZ

The factory method for polarizing the generator is done at the voltage regulator; take a U-shaped piece of insulated heavy wire, stripped at both ends, and momentarily touch it simultaneously to both the "BAT" and "GEN" terminals on the voltage regulator (with the engine off). That will polarize the generator and it should work, IF the voltage regulator is operating. If after doing this you don't see 13.5-14.5 volts across the battery terminals with the engine at 1500-2000 rpm, either the voltage regulator isn't working or the generator needs attention (brushes, commutator, etc.). Also check to make sure the connections at both ends of both battery cables are clean and shiny, especially on the ground cable.

Chuck Gongloff

And one more thing, the voltage regulator "case" or body has to be grounded. That's usually the function of the braided wire covers.

One end bolts/screws to the case of the generator. The other should bolt/screw/attach to the mounting bolts for the regulator. That grounds the case of the regulator to the generator.

Since you say your regulator is attached to the fiberglass inner fender and not to a metal structure, like the core support, these ground wires are essential.

It's been YEARS since I fooled around inside a voltage regulator used with a generator. There are 3 "relays" under the cover, one is the "battery cut out", another is the "current regulator", and the other is the "voltage regulator". The underhood temp has to be brought up to operating temperature. Then you remove the cover and "fool" with the adjustments using a meter. There is a procedure printed in the old Motor's Repair Manuals. You might try cleaning the contacts within the regulator with some crocus cloth to clean them up. Chuck

K2

Lets start at the beginning and eliminate the most obvious possible culprits. Take your battery cables off and thoughly clean both ends as John mentioned. Also take care to clean the connections at the starter as generator current passes from the generator to regulator to ampmeter to starter B+ terminal to Battery when normally charging. If this doesn't solve the problem you can test the generator by doing the following. Note: Corvette generators have externally grounded field coils which is why you must have the grounding sheath screwed to both the generator housing and the regulator base as previously mentioned. Now take a jumper wire and ground the field terminal directly to the regulator base --Pay attention now--(If you have the grounding sheath properly in place you can ground to the generator case as the sheath already grounds the gen to the regulator base). This takes the regulator out of the circuit and if you now show a charge the regulator is at fault. If there is still no charge remove the previous jumper and bypass the current regulating part of the regulator by jumping across the regulator armature terminal and the regulator battery terminal. If there is now a charge, the regulator is again faulty. If there is still no charge then the generator is likely the culprit. Remember!! check all your wiring connections first. Also check the ampmeter terminals as they can get loose or corroded as well. And as with all corvettes Check your main ground connections. You can damage the regulator by shorting the wrong terminals so be certain what each terminal is before proceeding. If you don't feel comfortable performing the preceding tasks or if all else fails take the generator and regulator to a good auto electric shop which can bench test the unit for you.

John S 1961

I have a 61 driver, changing over to an alternator improved my life! Take the generator to the nearest large body of water and give it the "float test" if it floats keep it! Following the advice from Mark at madelectircal.com and adding a shunt(14g jumper) across the amp guage helped alot, also I added their terminal block and put my lights on relays. Now the electrical systems works perfectly!!!. Grounds are always an issue and some additional ones need to be added. brittle and corroded wires are an issue and need to be relaced. Also old bubba repairs are usually problems. solder connections! add an HEI distributor, put on disc brakes....enjoy the ride without the fear!!

K2

No flame intended here but it's important to remember a few things about electrical systems and their evolution. The key to a good functioning electrical system is maintaining it in good condition. Over the years heat, corrosion, and bubba's paws take their toll. Doesn't make no nevermind if it is a generator or alternator system. Generators are every bit as reliable as alternators. The switch to alternators by the automotive industry was not for reasons of unreliability but rather because of lower manufacturing costs, less weight, and the ever increasing electrical demands of vehicles electrical systems, particularly at lower rpms. Unless you have pimped your ride with search lights, amplifiers, AC, and the like, the 30 amp output of the original generator is more than sufficient. If your wiring harness is shot you need to replace it regardless of whether you have a generator or an alternator. If your cables and grounds are corroded, an alternator will not make a lick of difference. Increasing the amp output also increases the likelyhood of burning up your wiring as it was designed for the loads and generator output that the car was delivered with. There was nothing wrong with the factory design and if maintained in good shape it works flawlessly. Fix your problems first then if you need more amps or cash is just burning a hole in your pocket, by all means put on an alternator. Send me your generator if you decide to try floating it.

Plasticman

K2,

While most of what you state I agree with, I will disagree in one area (generators vs. alternators). Generator systems with mechanical regulators are never going to be as reliable as an electronic regulated alternator. Brushes wear out much faster over a segmented commutator (rather than the slip ring brushes on an alternator), and mechanical regulators were never known for reliable functioning in comparison to an electronic regulated alternator (I would recommend a Delco 10SI alternator with internal electronic regulator from GM products on some 1970 vehicles on up to the late eighties). Alternators are known for their higher charging output at lower engine speeds, so that the battery can still be charging at idle - try that on a generator equipped Vette.

Changing over to a 10SI alternator of the correct amperage, will be a much more reliable system and would be one of the first changes I would make on any generator equipped C1 Vette (other than on an NCRS type Vette). And the 10SI is so easy to repair, I can do it blindfolded (and the repair parts are cheap and available at any parts store).

And this is from a guy who still runs a point type ignition on his Vette! And yes, points can/will fail more often than an HEI, but I will never be stranded by a points failure on my 62 Vette (since they are so easy to repair/adjust).


Dennis61,

Sorry to hijack the thread. Hope you get your Vette charging system back up and running soon.

Plasticman

61bob

I have had a 1961 Vet for the past 22 years and the problems you are
encountering are common. The advice provided by the other members
is very good. The most likely culprit is the voltage regulator. After
changing it out the most important thing is flashing the regulator as
mentioned previously. Also, check to make sure you v-belt is tight.
Sometimes if the belt is slipping ever so slightly the generator will not
charge properly. The volt guage is not the most reliable thing in the
world, I have have mine rebuilt and it often only shows a slight movement past 0 when above idle even though it is charging. If all else
fails, take the generator to a electrical shop and have them load test
it. Most major towns have a auto electrical shop that can handle the
task and if it needs a rebuild the cost is not that much. One last thing
dont forget to oil your generator every so often. I know this is not
alot of help but I think if you keep trying the things listed in the previous posts you will solve the problem.

Sincerely,

Bob

toms silver 60

I recently changed out the regulator on my 60 to find out it made no difference- the problem was a bad splice from a 1968 repair after an electrical short (Nothing like someone saying-Does your Corvette always smoke inside like that?) the bad wiring (regulator to ammeter) would pass some but not enough current to recharge.
I've also had bad connections on the ammeter gauge connections themselves.

K2

Plasticman;
No argument here. Just wanted to make the point that generally the real problem is overlooked because of lack of understanding of the old tech. components.

I'm kind of OLD tech myself, maybe that's why I love it.

Darren 61; Hope you gleaned some worthwhile info to help you solve your problem. Let us know how you make out.

Darren61

After spending a LOT of time this weekend chasing this problem down, I finally figured out the problem. A frayed wire that connected to the ignition switch!

Meter now shows a charge, and it looks like all is good!

Thanks for all of the help. I really appreciate it.

Darren