C2 body on a C3 frame?
06-21-2005, 03:32 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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C2 body on a C3 frame?
Has anyone out there observed or executed (no pun intended) placement of a C2 body on a C3 frame?
Assuming neither body nor frame are presently in great shape, with few drivetrain components original to the car, and the intention is to end up with a "driver," not a show car, what do you think of this concept?
One advantage would appear to be the removable, bolt on transmission cross member of the C3 frame which would make transmission removal a lot easier than with the non-removable nature of the C2 counterpart.
Your thoughts?
Assuming neither body nor frame are presently in great shape, with few drivetrain components original to the car, and the intention is to end up with a "driver," not a show car, what do you think of this concept?
One advantage would appear to be the removable, bolt on transmission cross member of the C3 frame which would make transmission removal a lot easier than with the non-removable nature of the C2 counterpart.
Your thoughts?
06-21-2005, 04:18 PM
#2
Instructor
I Once Looked At A 65 Roadster That Was Placed On A 78 Frame. Looked Like A Straightforward Swap. The Guy Told Me It Was Easy With Very Few Modifications. Hope This Helps.
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ButWhatDoIKnow (07-20-2021)
06-21-2005, 04:32 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
I know c3 frames have kick-up reinforcements which need to be removed and different body mount positions. If you can measure and weld, it should be straightforward. May be other differences.
06-21-2005, 04:40 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
A lot of work for ....?
This is not a good idea.
The rearmost 18" will have to be replaced in order to mount midyear bumpers and the gas tank with stock brackets. Most of the body mounts will have to be moved to position the wheelwells properly. You'll also have to mount a battery tray and probably do some fab work to install any '63 - '66 parking brake mechanism. Of course you'll have to remove the diagonal braces most C3 frames have at the rear kick-ups.
Here's the worst part: you'll have to explain endlessly to others why you created a Frankenstein when you could have just bought a stock frame for your model year.
The rearmost 18" will have to be replaced in order to mount midyear bumpers and the gas tank with stock brackets. Most of the body mounts will have to be moved to position the wheelwells properly. You'll also have to mount a battery tray and probably do some fab work to install any '63 - '66 parking brake mechanism. Of course you'll have to remove the diagonal braces most C3 frames have at the rear kick-ups.
Here's the worst part: you'll have to explain endlessly to others why you created a Frankenstein when you could have just bought a stock frame for your model year.
06-21-2005, 04:55 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
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Here's the worst part: you'll have to explain endlessly to others why you created a Frankenstein when you could have just bought a stock frame for your model year.[/QUOTE]
Were I to ever conduct such surgery, I sure wouldn't volunteer that I'd undertaken such a "mix and match" marriage of components!!
Were I to ever conduct such surgery, I sure wouldn't volunteer that I'd undertaken such a "mix and match" marriage of components!!
06-21-2005, 05:22 PM
#6
Safety Car
We put a new parts counter '79 frame under mine in 1991. It was 'back dated' by a fellow in Conn. who advertized in Hemmings. One of the best moves I ever made. 
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ButWhatDoIKnow (07-20-2021)
06-21-2005, 08:23 PM
#7
Race Director
Originally Posted by jerrybramlett
This is not a good idea.
The rearmost 18" will have to be replaced in order to mount midyear bumpers and the gas tank with stock brackets. Most of the body mounts will have to be moved to position the wheelwells properly. You'll also have to mount a battery tray and probably do some fab work to install any '63 - '66 parking brake mechanism. Of course you'll have to remove the diagonal braces most C3 frames have at the rear kick-ups.
Here's the worst part: you'll have to explain endlessly to others why you created a Frankenstein when you could have just bought a stock frame for your model year.
The rearmost 18" will have to be replaced in order to mount midyear bumpers and the gas tank with stock brackets. Most of the body mounts will have to be moved to position the wheelwells properly. You'll also have to mount a battery tray and probably do some fab work to install any '63 - '66 parking brake mechanism. Of course you'll have to remove the diagonal braces most C3 frames have at the rear kick-ups.
Here's the worst part: you'll have to explain endlessly to others why you created a Frankenstein when you could have just bought a stock frame for your model year.
But, Jerry, there is a valid reason to do this - in my case, my car was a headed for the scrap heap, way non-original, parts missing 64. I discovered the extent of the frame damage AFTER I took off the body.
If I spent the money on a NOS frame, it would have been a bad investment - Because of the car's condition, it would never be NCRS - I'd be EVEN MORE upside down on the value of the car popping 3-5K for a new frame. (besides, at the time, I didn't have $5K laying around)
The goal was always to make it a driver/G machine. Turned out to be a dang good one too....and I only paid a couple hundred bucks for the new frame from a local Corvette only mechanic joint.
I have to acknowledge the journyman fabricators and welders at my auto club. The resulting frame is almost indistinguishable (spelling?) from the original. Of course when the day comes to sell it I'll disclose all the work that's been done. But it's been done well.
I'd go for it.
pm
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06-21-2005, 08:40 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
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Thanks, PM. My situation is very similar to what you described. I'm feeling a bit better about this concept. As you stated, for a driver, not a NCRS contender, this amalgamation of parts may allow this Vette to exist well into this millenium! 
06-21-2005, 09:40 PM
#9
Racer
Another happy transplant
gclarkson,
What ever you, you don't make excuses to anyone, nor be sidetracked by anyone not sharing your views, or needs in regards to the frame modifications. To those of you too righteous to consider a mid-year swap, I recommend you just hit the back button on your browser, and ignore the rest of this post.
It is not a bad decision on your part to modify a later frame for use under your driver, and I commend you for it. If we were all financially stable, there would not be any need to retro fit, but with the ridiculous pricing we are now seeing for mid year frames, any alternative has now become viable.
The only thing you will need is to be able to master is a retractable tape measure, and have, or have access to a small MIG welder. I have just completed one myself, and anyone would be hard pressed to pass judgement on the modifications once completed. I purchased a mint ( frame stencils clearly visible ) 76 frame for only 900$, and with a day or so of cutting and welding, the SWC body is now sitting comfortably on the 76 foundation.
Here is the easy way to do the necessary mods. To start out, you will need to use the # 3 body mount as a reference, because it's already in the correct position relative to the body. Using the # 3 mount as reference, you will need to lengthen the front frame horns about 1.5" ( see pic 1 ) to accommodate the radiator support. Then the # 1 mount ( pic 2 ) can be carefully removed, and moved back approx 3/4" and welded back to the frame. The last mount that will need relocation is the number 4 ( pic 3 ) mount. It also must be removed and moved back about 1.75" then reattached in the usual manner. Once all the mounts are relocated correctly you will need to modify one last mount, and that is the number three. Although I previously mentioned that it was the only one in the correct place, I omitted to mention that it must be moved slightly upwords, and also towards the outside both by about 3/4". I decided to replace, ( very inexpensive ) rather then modify it, but you must do this only after all the other mounts are correctly relocated
Then remove the kick-up reinforcements , and the only thing left to address will be the rear most frame rail sections. If you can source some decent, affordable replacements, with care and your tape measure you can have them spliced into position and attached to your existing rails. This will permit the normal use of the fuel tank, and rear bumper brackets, and bumpers.
As for myself, I opted to retain the rear sections as they were , and modified the brackets in order to attach the bumpers, and used a replacement fuel tank.
PLease note that all the above mentioned measurements are only given as an approx idea of the needed modifications. I recommend that you refer to a period correct, service manual to get the exact measurements for the mid year frame.
If you don't already have a fuel tank it's purchase , along with the fuel sender, the neck, cap, boot, etc, can become an expensive proposition. I decided to go a less expensive route, and purchased from "Summit Racing " a fuel cell , complete with foam, cap, and GM sender, for very few dollars. It obliged my to slightly modify the filling area, but now that it's completed and in place, I am very pleased with the results.
I grant you all of the above required a few days of welding, cutting, measuring, and sourcing a few parts, but it was a h-ll of a lot less expensive then trying to find an affordable, decent, mid year frame, and I would have absolutely no second thoughts about going through the same process once again, whenever I need another frame.
Stepinwolf
-
-
-
-
What ever you, you don't make excuses to anyone, nor be sidetracked by anyone not sharing your views, or needs in regards to the frame modifications. To those of you too righteous to consider a mid-year swap, I recommend you just hit the back button on your browser, and ignore the rest of this post.
It is not a bad decision on your part to modify a later frame for use under your driver, and I commend you for it. If we were all financially stable, there would not be any need to retro fit, but with the ridiculous pricing we are now seeing for mid year frames, any alternative has now become viable.
The only thing you will need is to be able to master is a retractable tape measure, and have, or have access to a small MIG welder. I have just completed one myself, and anyone would be hard pressed to pass judgement on the modifications once completed. I purchased a mint ( frame stencils clearly visible ) 76 frame for only 900$, and with a day or so of cutting and welding, the SWC body is now sitting comfortably on the 76 foundation.
Here is the easy way to do the necessary mods. To start out, you will need to use the # 3 body mount as a reference, because it's already in the correct position relative to the body. Using the # 3 mount as reference, you will need to lengthen the front frame horns about 1.5" ( see pic 1 ) to accommodate the radiator support. Then the # 1 mount ( pic 2 ) can be carefully removed, and moved back approx 3/4" and welded back to the frame. The last mount that will need relocation is the number 4 ( pic 3 ) mount. It also must be removed and moved back about 1.75" then reattached in the usual manner. Once all the mounts are relocated correctly you will need to modify one last mount, and that is the number three. Although I previously mentioned that it was the only one in the correct place, I omitted to mention that it must be moved slightly upwords, and also towards the outside both by about 3/4". I decided to replace, ( very inexpensive ) rather then modify it, but you must do this only after all the other mounts are correctly relocated
Then remove the kick-up reinforcements , and the only thing left to address will be the rear most frame rail sections. If you can source some decent, affordable replacements, with care and your tape measure you can have them spliced into position and attached to your existing rails. This will permit the normal use of the fuel tank, and rear bumper brackets, and bumpers.
As for myself, I opted to retain the rear sections as they were , and modified the brackets in order to attach the bumpers, and used a replacement fuel tank.
PLease note that all the above mentioned measurements are only given as an approx idea of the needed modifications. I recommend that you refer to a period correct, service manual to get the exact measurements for the mid year frame.
If you don't already have a fuel tank it's purchase , along with the fuel sender, the neck, cap, boot, etc, can become an expensive proposition. I decided to go a less expensive route, and purchased from "Summit Racing " a fuel cell , complete with foam, cap, and GM sender, for very few dollars. It obliged my to slightly modify the filling area, but now that it's completed and in place, I am very pleased with the results.
I grant you all of the above required a few days of welding, cutting, measuring, and sourcing a few parts, but it was a h-ll of a lot less expensive then trying to find an affordable, decent, mid year frame, and I would have absolutely no second thoughts about going through the same process once again, whenever I need another frame.
Stepinwolf
-
-
-
-
Last edited by stepinwolf; 06-22-2005 at 05:31 AM.
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06-21-2005, 10:02 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
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Hi Stepinwolf:
The detail of your guidance and photographs you attached are incredibly helpful!
My friend and I (he's the one with the fabrication skills, and I'm the one with the desire and, admittedly, limited funds to make this happen) will take your advice. You've no doubt saved us countless hours/days of frustration in "trial and error" work to make this happen.
Thanks to you and all the other Forum members for their input.
Regards to all,
GClarkson.
The detail of your guidance and photographs you attached are incredibly helpful!
My friend and I (he's the one with the fabrication skills, and I'm the one with the desire and, admittedly, limited funds to make this happen) will take your advice. You've no doubt saved us countless hours/days of frustration in "trial and error" work to make this happen.
Thanks to you and all the other Forum members for their input.
Regards to all,
GClarkson.
06-22-2005, 05:08 AM
#11
Racer
Good luck
Your welcome gclarkson,
Once you start the conversion, if you get into trouble, just e-me and I will try and help out.
Stepinwolf
Drive your Corvettes
as if each day was your last
Once you start the conversion, if you get into trouble, just e-me and I will try and help out.
Stepinwolf
Drive your Corvettes
as if each day was your last
06-22-2005, 09:09 AM
#12
Instructor
c3 frame
i am putting my 64 roadster body on an 82 frame [ i want to use the aluminum rear end]..the rear 18" splice is done,all the body mounts have beeen relocated , the diagonal braces have been removed and the body is presently sitting on the frame to check for fit..my car would never have been concors but it will be a great driver...i am also including 4 wheel disc brakes,power steering,leather seats and a zz3 crate engine...car was originally 4 speed , 365 327 ...john b
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06-22-2005, 08:02 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
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All you die hard gotta have original stuff rodders listen up. These guys have a lot to say. I love originals but to make a car your own, nothing wrong with what they are doing. Hell, fabricating frames or anything else is part of the fun of building a car. It's not a TinkerToy you just slap together. I like the imagination that makes these cars unique. I would love to have a C2 on a custom chasis that will drive and handle like a C5. Any plans in the making out there? PLEASE.....NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE......... 
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ButWhatDoIKnow (07-20-2021)
06-22-2005, 10:32 PM
#14
Safety Car
Kensmith,
There are chassis out there like you describe. I am starting on a 65 right now with a custom chassis that will have C5 front suspension, C4 Dana 44 rear, and C6 engine. Here are some pics of the bare frame.
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrow...der_id=1342584
The 59 in the background is just finishing up, and it too has a custom chassis with all C4 running gear and a LS1 engine. Here are some pics of it's chassis.
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrow...der_id=1017411
Regards, John McGraw
There are chassis out there like you describe. I am starting on a 65 right now with a custom chassis that will have C5 front suspension, C4 Dana 44 rear, and C6 engine. Here are some pics of the bare frame.
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrow...der_id=1342584
The 59 in the background is just finishing up, and it too has a custom chassis with all C4 running gear and a LS1 engine. Here are some pics of it's chassis.
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrow...der_id=1017411
Regards, John McGraw
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ButWhatDoIKnow (07-20-2021)
06-23-2005, 12:06 AM
#15
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Beautiful frame. Did you make it or is there a company that makes them? Man, what a ride when you are done. I want to buy a new C5 or C6 for the ride but I love the C1 and C2 looks. To have both the ride and looks would be too cool. Nice work and maybe post some more photos when you hang the suspension. Thanks for the photos.
ooooops.....2nd set of photos has suspension. Love it.
ooooops.....2nd set of photos has suspension. Love it.
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ButWhatDoIKnow (07-20-2021)
06-23-2005, 02:26 PM
#16
C1 to C4 CONVERSION!
I have just happened upon an Indiana-based company called SRIII Motorsports (sriiimotorsports.com which is similar to CarCreations.com). They cutomize the chassis of the C1 with a round-tube design. This comes with the engine of your choice (LT1 is popular), transmission mounts, all suspension components (cleaned, reconditioned, and installed). Includes Dana 36 rear diff, four coil-over shocks, power rack-n-pinion steering, front sway bar, tubular adjustable strut rods, calipers, pads, rotors and flexible stainless brake hoses.
This idea grabs me by the soul because I love the classic Corvette look but can't stand it's archaic performance and handling. DOES ANYBODY KNOW ANYONE WHO HAS COMPLETED SUCH A CONVERSION OR WHERE I CAN GET FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT A FINISHED VEHICLE??
Thanks,
Woozster
This idea grabs me by the soul because I love the classic Corvette look but can't stand it's archaic performance and handling. DOES ANYBODY KNOW ANYONE WHO HAS COMPLETED SUCH A CONVERSION OR WHERE I CAN GET FURTHER INFORMATION ABOUT A FINISHED VEHICLE??
Thanks,
Woozster
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ButWhatDoIKnow (07-20-2021)
06-23-2005, 05:40 PM
#17
Safety Car
Woozster and Kensmith,
Both the chassis in my pics above are SRIII chassis. Mike Stockdale who owns SRIII is a real craftsman. There are many people who have bought from him and many finished cars. I liked his C1 chassis so well that I bought my C2 chassis from him.
Regards, John McGraw
Both the chassis in my pics above are SRIII chassis. Mike Stockdale who owns SRIII is a real craftsman. There are many people who have bought from him and many finished cars. I liked his C1 chassis so well that I bought my C2 chassis from him.
Regards, John McGraw
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ButWhatDoIKnow (07-20-2021)
06-23-2005, 08:38 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by John McGraw
Woozster and Kensmith,
Both the chassis in my pics above are SRIII chassis. Mike Stockdale who owns SRIII is a real craftsman. There are many people who have bought from him and many finished cars. I liked his C1 chassis so well that I bought my C2 chassis from him.
Regards, John McGraw
Both the chassis in my pics above are SRIII chassis. Mike Stockdale who owns SRIII is a real craftsman. There are many people who have bought from him and many finished cars. I liked his C1 chassis so well that I bought my C2 chassis from him.
Regards, John McGraw
Do you have his address or web site? Looks like the only way to go. Find a car that needs a frame and suspension for an affordable price and make the conversion. I like it.
Thanks,
Ken
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ButWhatDoIKnow (07-20-2021)
06-25-2005, 03:35 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
Ken,
Don't know if John had a chance to send you the web site address but I sent it on to you in case.
Woozster,
We have some pictures of a completed 62 with a Newman Car Creations conversion and a 63 in progress using the SRIII chassis at our web site if you want more information.
Lots of choices available now for a chassis.
Rich Lagasse
Don't know if John had a chance to send you the web site address but I sent it on to you in case.
Woozster,
We have some pictures of a completed 62 with a Newman Car Creations conversion and a 63 in progress using the SRIII chassis at our web site if you want more information.
Lots of choices available now for a chassis.
Rich Lagasse
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ButWhatDoIKnow (07-20-2021)
06-26-2005, 11:10 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by richscorvettes
Ken,
Don't know if John had a chance to send you the web site address but I sent it on to you in case.
Woozster,
We have some pictures of a completed 62 with a Newman Car Creations conversion and a 63 in progress using the SRIII chassis at our web site if you want more information.
Lots of choices available now for a chassis.
Rich Lagasse
Don't know if John had a chance to send you the web site address but I sent it on to you in case.
Woozster,
We have some pictures of a completed 62 with a Newman Car Creations conversion and a 63 in progress using the SRIII chassis at our web site if you want more information.
Lots of choices available now for a chassis.
Rich Lagasse
Got it and thanks for the information. Really like your garage and cars. Nice setup.
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ButWhatDoIKnow (07-20-2021)