Gary2KC5

What started out as a slight vibration ended up shearing the bolts in the torque tube.

It's at the dealer now. They called to tell me there were bolts sheared off in the torque tube.

Here's what happened. I'm in a tight left hander in 2nd at about 1/2 throttle @ apex and roll into full throttle @ exit accelerating from about 60 to 80, down a short straight the through a 3rd gear left / right corner I feel a vibration in the rear. I make a hard brake and downshift to 2nd make a 190 degree right and the vibration is worse so I pull into the garage and check for a flat...none.

I put it on stands and check under the car...nothing.

I then go for a test drive in the parking lot and then out on the street. Slight vibration. then from a stop sign I run it cautiously up to 3500 rpm and get a big vibration in the shifter.

I stop and turn around and this time I get a high picthed metal on metal sound (like a screw driver on a metal lathe) and then I hear metal pinging around like a bolt in the bell housing (or torque tube as it turns out)

I wasn't hammering it when the bolts sheared.

What happened? did the bolts work their way out , causing the vibration and then finally got in the way of something and got their heads cut off????

davidfarmer

I would be curious to know if it was the bolts INSIDE the torque tube, or the mounting bolts outside. The inside bolts are extremely tight, as they load them up with industrial-strength loc-tite.

Good news is your getting a new/rebuilt torque tube. There is no way this could not have damaged the bearings inside the tube.

I would specualate that the bearings/rag joints inside were going away, causing a slight vibration, and this caused the bolts to back out. I've gotten anywhere from 5 races to 2 years out of a torque tube

Dave

Gary2KC5

Dave, It had to be the inside bolts because I heard them bouncing around.

I haven't seen the part yet. They are going to replace everything but the tube housing.

I will try to get a look at the damaged pieces tomorrow.

jbsblownc5

I had the exact same thing happen to me last year. I heard the clanging around inside my bellhousing and thought it was the clutch. I also had the same vibration. I had been doing some roadracing as well.
Funny thing is, it seemed to become evident on a mellow cruise with the wife.
I sheared the 3 bolts off in the rubber cupler.
JB

davidfarmer

that is wild! I disintegrated the input bearing once, but haven't had any bolt problems.

Dave

A.D.Malmquist

I had the same thing happen to me a Road America, just before T5 at about 150 mph...it was loud.

Thankfully, GM as corrected the problem starting in 2001 so try to makesure you get the newer version, notthe rubber one.

~Adam

davidfarmer

they all have rubber "rag joints" in them. I don't guess you mean rubber bolts?????

Gary2KC5

Adam,

Bad place for that to happen :smash:

My sig pic is in the apex of T5, so I can relate to your torque tube failure about 500 feet before that.

The GMPP adjuster said they would pop for the inturnals but not the tube, which is O.K. because if I had to fix it on my dime I wouldn't replace the tube anyway.

My GMPP extended warranty just covers the drive train, so I'm glad I had it.
I demanded GM award me the warranty when they had to rebuild my engine.

BTW: The GM tech insisted that it was a clutch problem, I made a visit to talk with the service manager and the tech and insisted that it was the torque tube. The tech insisted it was the clutch so I left telling them I would check on my clutch warranty.

The next day the service manager called and told me that I was right, and it was the tube :yesnod:

ifeeltheneedforspeed

The most scary moment I have ever had on a race track was in a Mazda RX2 racing in ITA (SCCA) at Road America on the straight going into Canada corner when the U-joint failed at 120 mph (4.80 rear gear). The half lap before it let go I heard/felt a hum and slight vibration. I knew something did not feel right, but I pressed on. It let go with a boom. I immediately pushed in the clutch and let off the gas. Lot's of noise started until I pulled off the track onto the grass. I looked around and then down and saw that the U-joint and the front end of the drive shaft had bored a hole through the drive shaft hump in the car and had rotated around creating a hole completely through. My right knee was about four inches from the 12 inch hole that had been created by the drive shaft rotating freely unattached to the transmission tail shaft. I could be driving an automatic C5 today :eek:

I hope a completed torque tube failure would not be as dangerous.

Gary2KC5

Nope, no parts eating their way to your extremeties, but the sound of bolts shearing & bouncing around under your shifter @ 150 mph @ the 500' braking mark requires your full attention.

Canada Corner is not a good place to have a problem either. Last year a SCCA GT1 driver was killed there.

Mike Schriber

While we're sharing driveline failure stories (to make Gary feel better)...

In this years OTC at Willow Springs (on day six) we sheared off the bolts and part of the engine output adapter (at the first driveshaft u-joint) while headed down the straight at full throttle (setting up for turn one). The now unattached driveshaft end tore up a bunch of wires, the clutch linkage and whacked the rear of the transmission case so hard it cracked the housing (so now it leaks oil).

Since it's a race car, no warranty (although they are sending me some of the parts).

All in a days racing!

Mike :flag

h rocks

I'll "me too" it on the driveline story, by updating you my clutch explosion at Mid-Ohio three weeks ago at the end of the 3300' back straight. It was a very expensive sound (and in reality$$$) to hear and feel steel and aluminum crunch and shatter at speed. When I saw the bellhousing, and what pieces were left, I considered myself lucky that the disc didn't remove my right foot. The bellhousing was GONE between "1 o'clock" and "8 o'clock" with the exception of the flanges bolted to the engine and ZF. Everything inside was trashed as well. I now have EM's blanket on my new bellhousing.

Gary2KC5

Yes! bring it on.

I feel much better now. Hate to see the problems you guys had but obviously there are much worse things that could have happened in my case.

I felt best when the GMPP adjuster told me they were covering the repair though.

A.D.Malmquist

Dave, I was under the impession the the joints were no longer rubber. Maybe they changed the design or simply switched compounds...or maybe I'm just confused.

It sounds like you know whats up with the redesign, so if you could set me straight, please do.

~Adam M.

davidfarmer

The early C5's used a composite tube, then they switch to aluminum. I just put in a new tube a few months ago, and it still had the rubber donuts. They are actually rubber with a nylon inner belt. That way, they absorb vibrations, but still have the strength of nylon (very very strong).

Regardless, that would not cause the bolts to loosen/brake.

Dave

Bob Raub

This will be my first post on this forum, Hi I'm Bob Raub (3R-Racing) the shop that built and maintains Phil McClure's #73 C-5. On this torque tube issue, I will pass along to you that we have had trouble from the begining, most damage comes from down shifts. We have sovle our problem by replacing the rubber doughnuts with a billet alum. one, it doesn't make it never fail but has tripled our reliability

davidfarmer

I also now use Bob's "donut", but it does increase vibration between the joints. It would be a good upgrade for a track car, but possibly anoying for a street ride. Remember, the driveshaft in the C5 is turning at engine speed, not trans speed, so it is turning up to 3x faster than a conventional driveshaft most of the time.

Dave

and WELCOME Bob to the forum!

Allthrottleandsomebottle

:iagree:
Kinda like solid motor mounts on my 68' Camaro.........stock rubber ones didn't take well for long on the 4.56 gear launches :eek:
Put in solids :thumbs: a little vibration but ok. Took the solid trans mount back out......felt like a small plane taking off :lol:
Welcome Bob :hurray:

A.D.Malmquist

Ah yes, thats what I was thinking of. I got these after a very high recomendation from Peter @ DRM. The vibration is said to increase some but on my track-only car, I couldn't tell.

davidfarmer

here is a pic of the OEM donut vs the 3R unit. Ignore the red arrows.