jdhommert

I've been wanting to get into HPDE's for decades now. Had a couple C5Zs, one daily driven on R compounds (including through a blizzard, closest to dying I've ever been lol) I've had a 95 Z28 with great suspension for 20 years now. Forza fanboy, reading and watching all the things about driving and tracking for years, but I've never actually been on the track. I'm looking to change that, but I have some options. I know the track is an entirely different story than the street, or as decently realistic as Forza can be, I dont have a rewind button when I smack the wall in real life I dont know which is the best car to take out, for at least the first few times. This will be for WorldWide Technology Raceway in St. Louis. I've thought about going to the Starting Line all day intro class thing that they have at the NCM track. Might eventually drive there, Autobahn in Chicago or the new Ozark Raceway.
Anyway the options are:

2000 C5. Car has been in my family for 20 years, I've recently acquired it. Non Z51, 60k miles rebuilt M6 with only a few thousand at most on the fluid, Textralia clutch (their lesser full disc)
Almost positive its still on stock brakes, fluid was bleed somewhat recently with DOT 4 I'm pretty sure (would probably switch to a high temp fluid and maybe pads?) Has stupid red caliper covers
Z06 bars, Bilstein shocks
Sumitomo HTR Z5 tires that are probably brand new in tread, but have been on the car for I'd guess 2-4 years. Car sits in a climate controlled garage.
Hurst shifter (more geared for drag than HPDE)

2016 Z06 A8. GMPP suspension upgrade (software), still on stock tires that have a little bit left. Also a recently acquired family car. 7k miles on it. I'm smart enough to know that I shouldn't be taking this car out my first time...right? Especially seeing a video a couple months ago on reddit of someone wrecking his C7Z at his first ever HPDE. It at least has a track mode, but I feel less in control of an A8, and with that amount of power and tendency for snap oversteer in the C7Zs....I'm kind of scared of this car on the street for the snap oversteer. I'm not sure what kind of runoff/room for error my home track has. I dont have that much seat time in this car, especially of pushing it at all. Probably just something to work up to as I get more comfortable with track driving at the limit.

95 Z28. 107k miles M6. Has a "brand new" suspension that was put on the car 10 years ago with about as many miles on it lol- Strano sway bars, Bilstiens, Strano springs. Pro 5.0 shifter. Sold the Fikse's on it and just have some cheap beat up ZR1s with crappy street tires that are probably 15 years old. Obviously that would have to be replaced. C5 Brakes with Wagner Thermoquiet pads, which would also probably have to go. Would have to look to see if the TQ for the C5s were metallic or ceramic. I'm leaning semi-metallic, but I'd guess they are similar to stock C5 pads. My biggest concern with this car is probably that its been sitting in the garage for 15 years. Probably has 15 miles in those 15 years. Also has 4:11 gears in the 10 bolt. I know the trans and rear end fluid have been changed at least once, but its been sitting for years so it probably needs a full fluid change. I'm super confident in the suspension pieces that we normally talk about for handling, but I remember the steering is very sloppy. I remember someone making an aluminum steering coupler/rag joint, but it could at least use a new stock one I bet. Maybe I'm just used to newer cars. I dont now how the rest of the chassis and electronics really are, it at least has been in that same garage for years. The redline is lower on the old school LT1 and it wraps out quick with the gears . Doesnt have an engine oil temp gauge, not sure about temps/cooling at all here. Would need tires (maybe wheels at the same time?), every drop of fluid changed in the car and maybe pads


I'm certainly leaning the C5 coupe. I'll probably be fairly apprehensive about how hard I drive it and how much I push it at least the first time I go out. Its got decent street tires on it, not R compounds which should help me learn a lot better than R compounds. As long as I've been aggressively driving and treating back roads and on/off ramps as my personal road courses, its just not the same as being on a track. I also haven't driven that aggressively since I sold my last C5Z 5 years ago. Haven't done it consistently in 10 years. Planning to spend a day this weekend taking each car out for a while and driving them to have some fun for my birthday but also evaluating each car and how I feel with each one, mostly in the aspect of comfort of driving it hard, safety in doing so and such. I dont care at all how fast I am, this is 100% a learning experience until I start to grow more comfortable. I can grow into the C7Z, but ideally at some point I'm wanting to pick up a newer 1LE or a Cayman. I'm renting a Cayman GTS in a couple months in Orlando. I'd be open to a GS, a C6Z is a dream car of mine but dont know if I'll ever pull the trigger with the time bomb under the hood. I'd also like to do at least 1 version of Skip Barber/Spring Mountain/Porsche school thing. Not that any of that matters right now.

Assuming C5 coupe is the answer, for at least the first time do you folks think I'm ok on stock non Z51 pads on my first day? I'm tempted to try to get away with the non high temp DOT 4 for the first time, but I know I should have high temp fluid in whatever I drive, and should just upgrade the pads too. I'm not sure If I'll be able to have everything done and ready by then anyway. First track day is 5/10 at the local track. Then the SCCA Starting Line at NCM is 5/21. Maybe I'm better off driving down to the NCM to do the Starting Line thing first for a day, and then trying a track day at the local track next? The local track does have novice groups where you have an instructor in car, but it sounds like Starting Line is more of a full day experience. There's also a local Porsche club that rents the track for weekends once every month or two it looks like. I'm not sure how hard each track would be on brakes etc. I'll attach a link to the local track, and a YouTube video of someone going around the track if you'd like to
see. They recently expanded from 1.6 to 2.0 miles. Its a roval, so coming off the roval you'd defiantly use the brakes hard then. Anyway, I'll shut up.
https://i0.wp.com/wwtraceway.com/wp-...00%2C507&ssl=1



Thanks so much for any and all advice!!!!!

clearwaterms

the c5; it has a competition mode (not as good as track mode but will allow a bit of slip). upgrade pads/fluid watch oil temps and have fun.

The z/28 is going to need a bunch to be track worthy (tires, fluids, pads, etc.) and that bunch will get pricey/time consuming. If you don't enjoy track driving you will have spent a bunch of money to go not as quick as the C5 would have. In the long run, this may be the best option for a track toy should you get addicted and you might, but cross that bridge when you get there not before.

The Z06 is for sure the best option but if you're not willing to write it off don't bring it to the track... It's VERY fast, the a8 very capable, and you will be a hero on the track if you bring it but like you said it has more power than you feel comfortable with and you could easily get in trouble.

CraigStu

I would forget about the Z06. I would pick whichever of your other choices you think will be the most reliable w/ the least amount of $ needed to spend between now and your first event. I suspect that the C5 is your best choice and leave the street tires on it. We all like to go fast but there are inevitable mistakes made, situations out of your control, etc. If something happens, you will be better off if the street tires have kept your speed 10-20 mph slower than R comps would.

rhneff

I agree with CxraigStu's input, but would add that if there's any way at all you should make your first track experience happen with a group that provides instruction. My preference is in-car but even lead-follow is better than nothing. Instruction will help get you up to speed quicker and with less opportunity to learn/maintain bad driving habits, plus instruction generally provides a safer and more enjoyable experience for someone who's never been on track before.

harrydirty

Another vote for the C5........street tires will give plenty of warning before giving up, plus it sounds like the least amount of effort to get the car track-worthy. You want to be focusing on your driving, not whether the car will break. Besides, the C5 is a great platform.......enjoy your first (of many) track day!

wtb-z

Drive the new car. It's going to be most ready out of the box, the A8 in performance shift mode is is pretty rational, folks usually crash once they start going faster, not on the first day.

jriley9922

Fully agree... On a few levels.
First, don't be an idiot. Sounds like you have that figured out ... Just understand you don't have to run with the other c7z cars. You don't have to use 650hp and 1.1g cornering.
you won't be kicked out if you don't floor it at the apex .. I promise :0

You'll be more worried about where you're going and what the heck is even going on.
It's usually as you get better, you get braver, and go past what your skill can handle, then you go off.

Just go out fully expecting to have fun and baby the car.
Pick a guy ina stock c5 that has some experience and just follow him. Anything his car can do, yours can do with a novice behind the wheel.

Amateur track days are a mix and everyone is on the same team.
You'll have stock miatas passing 911s... And that's completely fine... Everyone is there to have a fun and safe day

ChiefEngineer

My wife and I caught the track bug several years ago and have been through a few track cars which happen to closely match your choices. We had a 2002 Z28 and a 2014 Shelby GT500 to start with. She drove the Camaro and had fun but it was very hard to keep on the track near the limit. We then bought a 99 C5 base coupe with an M6 and an 18 GS A8. The C5 need only a set of Hawk pads and high temp fluid to be an amazingly fun and reliable track car. It handled dramatically better after I lowered it on the stock bolts but it was very easy to drive at the limit and an incredible car to learn to drive fast. The C5 is very forgiving and capable of pretty decent speeds. The C7 GS with the A8 has forever changed my opinion of automatic transmissions on track. It is nice to be able to concentrate on finer points of track position, braking points and weight transfer while the computer nails the shift points. Make no mistake, the A8 is fast on track. I have recommended the C5 to many people wanting to get on track as it is one of the most fun and affordable cars on the planet.

harrydirty

No overheating issues?

clearwaterms

i have an LS3 c6 (so not the same) and completely stock with EBC Blue pads and Motul 660 fluid I found I consistently overheated the oil temp (300+). I added an improved racing thermostat and a 2nd hand z06 oil cooler and with the stock radiator I now see oil temps climb to 280 on a hot midwest day after a 20 minute session. This is running on a 220tw tire (GY SC3) and everything else stock. I am upgrading the radiator this spring and hoping that with lower water temps i'll keep the oil just that much cooler.

passmenow

Take the one you don't mind pitting the windshield and front bumper paint.

harrydirty

Excellent point........

ChiefEngineer

Never any overheating issues on the C5. The C7 does suffer from high oil temps. On really hot days, I limit my sessions to 15 minutes of hard running and then a couple of cool down laps. Coolant temps never exceed 220. I bought an Improved Racing oil cooler that I plan to install before this summer. I would also highly recommend running with a group that has good instructors. It was a huge benefit for me. I always thought that I could drive, especially after a couple of decades of driving fast cars on mountain roads but after spending time on track with a couple of good instructors over several events, I not only went dramatically faster but I was easier on my car and had a lot more fun. I also made lifelong friends and eventually became an instructor myself to pass on what I have learned over the last several years.

Chrisbequick

I also have a '95 Z28 and a 2000 C5 coupe. There's no way I would take the Z28 to a track day over my C5.

kjchristopher

I’d recommend the 2016. Put it in the most novice level of track mode (I don’t recall the options available) and don’t try to drive at 10/10ths. And get a track day insurance policy from Hagerty or Locton to take one more thing off your mind.

jdhommert

I went out and drove the C5 couple and the C7Z yesterday for a few mins each.

What I'm about to say is a combo of:
Been 5 years since I sold my C5Z, didnt drive it often.
Been 10 years since I sold my 1st C5Z that was my DD and I pushed hard every day
not used to or comfortable with the C7 platform
C7Z is an auto which I'm not used to and I feel like I dont have as much control for some reason
was driving on a crappy back road in between two towns of less than 1000 people in the middle of nowhere (in Mexico)
OG tires on a 2016 Z
I always have in the back of my mind the snap oversteer issue C7Zs had even off throttle (solved by rear alignment iirc)

But good God. That car is just too fast, at least for me at this point. I just wasnt comfortable with it, like at all. I had to go quite a bit faster in it than the C5 to get to 7-8/10ths and get past the level of boring going around the corner with one hand. I wasnt in PTM, just Sport mode and when it said the tires were warm I put the throttle down to 80% or so and the rear end started skating around a lot more than I expected. When I'd approach triple digits the entire car seemed to be slightly wavering side to side instead of going in a straight line, I'm thinking that was because of the wide front tires tracking. The previous family owner said I should have put the car in PTM and I would have felt more comfortable with it.

Drove the C5 after and felt as comfortable as I could feel with it considering I haven't driven much high performance cars the last 5-10 years. Was going a reasonable level of speed around the corners that felt manageable, not at speeds that made me feel uncomfortable given the road, and I'd say both cars were at say 8/10ths. So I think I've decided on the C5 I I'm going to do anything.

I feel like the C7Z is just "too much" I totally get now what people are saying about having the right balance of power, preferring the GS over the Z (for many reasons) I think as my abilities progressed, I'd probably feel much better with the C7Z on the track with newer really sticky tires. But I'm also a lot more about having fun and enjoying the car, rather than how fast it actually is. Which is why I always want a manual.

Thinking about selling the C7Z to get either a C7 GS, maybe some kind of a Cayman. Maybe a 1LE. Ideally I'd sell the C7Z now and wait a year or two to replace it for prices to fall.

clearwaterms

so c5 for track duty? good choice for pads get some good track pads, even though it's your first outing the corvette is still a fast car and it uses the rear brakes for traction control so get some good track pads. Vendors on this site have a few brake pad options that will suit your use and last.

jdhommert

So now that I've decided on the C5, I need to figure out what pads would be good to swap in. Need a good track pad thats also totally streetable. I'm maybe thinking Carbotech XP10s I think they are called?

TrackAire

If you can swing it, get the C7 Grand Sport with the manual and you'll have a car that you'll be very happy with.....it is a superior track day weapon. As you progress in your driving skill, the GS will essentially be in the 99% of the fastest cars on the track. It is that good and looks 100% better than the Camaro plus it weighs a little less.

C5 Hardtop

If someone handed me keys to each one of those cars, I'd be in the Z06 w/out any doubt. I'm a transmission purist and it is a sin to buy an automatic sports car.