MelloYellow

I know this is a favorite, but...

racerns

I don't know about revolutionized racing, but does help with smoother down shifts. I don't think it is required as much with todays synco trannys.

Jon AA

No offense intended, but you wouldn't post this poll if you had a clue how important it is on roadcourses.

No Go

I couldn't imagine driving a stick on a road course and not doing it.

It simply works.

:iagree:

Jim 47

OK Mellow Yellow, I see that JonAA is right, and it's time for Heal/toe 101.

The heal/toe technique is neither revolutionary or Mickey Mouse BS. It is a exceptionally good technique used by drivers of race and sports cars for longer than you have been on this earth. It got the name of "heal and toeing" because the first users of this technique would place the ball of their foot (toes) on the brake pedal to slow the car and simultaneously speed up the engine by rotating their foot and depressing the accelerator with the heal of their foot in order to "blip" the throttle while they were making a down shift.

For those who have never used this technique, I will guarantee that you will be several seconds slower on the track than someone that knows how to heal/toe, assuming similar cars. Below are the avantages of this "modern" technique:

1. Lets you accomplish two things at once, Downshift and Max braking. Doing these two things simultaneously will lower your lap times.

2. Allows you to get max acceleration immediately after the car has been slowed down. This means the proper gear has been selected beforehand so the driver an get the highest torque available at his first touch of the acceleraator.

3. Allows the smooth selection of a lower gear without causing a jerk to the car, possible rear wheel lock-up, or strain to the transmission and dive train.

4. Greatly shortens the braking zone, allowing more time and distance at full throttle, and a shorter braking zone also allows more "off-the-brake" cooling time for the brake rotors.

5. Gives the diver much better control of his car in the braking zone and better accceleration through the corner. It even allows you to start up on hills without rolling backwards if you like.

If you do any driving on road courses, learn this technique. It will make you a better driver. :cool:

I forgot to add that with the pedal placement of modern cars (this includes your C5) the heal/toe technique is done by most drivers with just the ball of the right foot. I depress the brake with the left side of my right foot while blipping the throttle with the right side of my right foot. This is a less clunsy way to get the job done, and I think that it gives the driver better control over these foot actions. :D


[Modified by Jim 47, 9:09 AM 12/31/2002]

redvetracr

Mello,
First thing!! the term is "heel AND toe" second thing, you absolutly do NOT need to do it!! The ONLY time to heel and toe is when you want to be smooth and get some fast laps. In other words LEARN TO DO IT (right).
...redvetracr

MelloYellow

Might take the time to learn it if I have lotsa time at the track or go to one of the schools. I know the technique is EXTREMELY popular here on the forum and at the driving schools.

I've just talked to some other professional racers that don't think much of the technique and wanted to see what the overall opinion was. This is about what I thought. I can't personally comment on Heel and Toe because I've never tried it or learned the technique. I understand the concept tho.

redvetracr

Jim47,
Toes on brake/heel on gas?? I find it easier to use my heel (actually up a little from the heel) on the brake and rotate my foot over to use my toes (ball of foot) on the gas pedal. As I sit here with my foot planted on the floor (in front of the computer) it is very difficult (for me) to rotate the heel of my foot to the right (as if to stab the gas pedal) But easier to plant my heel (as if on a brake pedal) and rotate my toes over to the right (as if to stab the gas pedal).
...redvetracr

VegasJen

interesting RVR, i do it just like jim said. in fact, the right side of my brake pedal pad is worn through to the metal underneath but the left side still looks new (almost). i wouldn't have thought your c-3 and mine are that much different. maybe it's just differences in the way our bodies work. i find it easier to modulate the brake pedal input using my toes than my heal but i've heard of people doing it the same way your describing with great success.
as said above, revolutionary? i don't think i would have described it quite that way. the way i think i would describe it is more like music. don't get me wrong, i have no musical ability whatsoever but i did try to learn at one time. i play music like some people heal/toe and some people heal/toe like i play music. what i mean is that if you listen to music, you can tell there are different notes being played simultaniously. the music would sound strange and would not 'flow' to play the same notes one at a time. heal/toe is sort of like that. kind of like trail braking, too. whether you prefer to use these techniques is irrelevant, but if you simply can't use them (because you don't know how) then your at a disadvantage. driving fast is all about learning what works for you and what doesn't work for you. :steering:

h rocks

I'm a "toe" on the brake and heel on the gas in those situations. Sometimes I'm a left foot on the brake and right foot on the gas simultainiously dancer. Depends on the situation. (sound familiar?) Ie. there's no silver bullet. In any event Mello, the best thing you can do is practice it everytime you have an opportunity on the street. (At first, DON'T do it near any other cars!) You need to "educate" your feet on what it feels like to do what now seems unnatural to them. (you) It took me a few years to be smooth at left foot braking, but it can make a huge difference in keeping the car settled in situations where it's going to cost you more time to brake, downshift, (heel & toe) gas it, upshift and gas it again. Many times you can keep on the gas by modulating it with your left foot on the brake, make your turn in. then roll off the brake as you are rolling on the gas. This WILL take practice, practice, and more practice. BUT, it WILL make you very quick in those situations where you can utilize it. (Like offset gates for you A-Xer's. Did you ever see a really quick driver going through offsets with the brake lights on the whole time?)

bjm

I think he may be talking about left foot braking for those who run Jerico's etc... and really do not need to use the clutch to down shift. I may be wrong but for those of us with our little M-22's there is really no other way. That is unless you want to double clutch???

h rocks

My "Jerico" is a ZF ;)...re-read my post bjm.

Jim 47

Red, you will notice that I said that - the first users of this technique used the toes on the brake and the heel on the accelerator. This is because the arraingment of the pedals in the old race and sports cars made this the perferred way to do the heel and toe action. Todays car's pedals are arrainged differently and are generally closer together making the "original" older technique obsolete. Everything changes. :D

As I pointed out, I use the ball of my right foot for both the brake pedal and the accelerator. From the people I've dicussed this with, this seems to be the current preferred way since the pedal placement allowes it and it is the quickest and most comfortable way to do it. I hope this clears up your confussion. :yesnod:

As far as using your heel on the brake, all the drivers that I know tell me that actating the brake with your heel should be avoided at all costs as the heel is not sufficiently sensitive enough to provide the accuracy necessary for braking under most conditions. By far, you have more feel in the ball of your foot. I think that this is one of the prime reasons that the drivers that I know only use the ball of their foot for the heel and toe technique. :cool:

redvetracr

bjm,
Whats a Jerico?? is that one of them furrin transmixers?? I ALWAYS USE THE CLUTCH!! It saves on u-joints.

Jim47,
I don`t use my heel to brake more of the center of my foot and then roll my foot over and gas with my toes (more the right side of my foot). I just can`t bend my ankle and my knee enough to get my heel anywhere near the gas if my toes or ball of my foot are on the brake pedal. I think the most important thing is to find a comfortable way to blip the gas as you are downshifting and braking all at the same time.

Mellow. If you could only find a copy of the NASCAR road coarse races they always have a camera on a few drivers feet just to show the different styles of "heel and toe". ...redvetracr

davidfarmer

I thought it was BS too until I mastered it. Now it is second nature, and my lap times are better and my drivetrain lasts. Some of the other racers I run with change trans/torque tubes almost weekly. I have run my trans 2 full seasons with nothing more than fluid changes.

Dave

bjm

Red, does that mean you do use a Jerico?

redvetracr

Jerico?? I wouldn`t ever use one of those "tractor transmissions" NO WAY!! last season I was using a "Roltek" basically a Super T-10 with a special gear set. ...redvetracr

MelloYellow

Guess I'll try to find time to master the technique someday then I'll be able to compare whether it helps smooth out the car's balance when shifting.

Hmm, it takes it easier on the drivetrain, mostly the TQ Tube and Transmission?

VegasJen

i'd run a jerico if i could afford one. anyone know where i can get one cheap? meantime, like DF said, i heal/toe 'cause it's easier on the car. i have been averaging 5-7 track days a year plus driving on the street and my clutch is still in really good condition. i even have u-joints that last for a couple years! right now i'm considering a richmond 5-speed, i just have to put together $1500 to buy it.

david, i was looking at an old issue of 'sports car' and saw your car in a toyo tire ad. they were saying the spec tires were the proxes t1-s. is this the tires you guys are running? they look alot like a street tire. i'm interested in your impressions of these and other tires for a good compromise tire. not necessarily for street use but one that has good stick but decent wear. since nobody pays me to race, i have to be 'thrifty' with the money i spend. i need new tires and i'd like to be able to get a full season out of them (up to ten track days a year) but still have grip above a regular street tire can get.
do you guys treat your tires?

John Shiels

Ccol Camaro I like it