millsj

I have been doing a lot of reading on this forum and on the V8 Road Racing Series forum about GTA/ASA cars for road course use. I thought I would get your thoughts since there appears to be a number of guys on the forum running these cars or who are familiar with them. Sorry for the longer post, but I wanted to give all the background information leading up to my question.

My wife and I started driving on track back in 2008 doing DE’s with the PCA. We both drove a turbo Mazda Miata (Mazdaspeed Miata) for many years. We progressed up through the ranks and began instructing after a couple of years behind the wheel. The car also underwent upgrades many throughout this process, but always remained a street/track car. It is a fast little car, but was always full of compromises.



As we both got faster and pushed the car more, it became apparent that a dedicated track car would be a better option for us. I also had the itch for some W2W racing. The Miata became the date night car and we bought a Spec Miata. I went through the SCCA school and have been competing with the VDCA for the last couple of years. This has been tons of fun and my level of competition. I am more interested in having a good time than doing body work and this organization has been a good fit.



My wife and I are starting to travel more in the RV and are interested in driving on some tracks farther away from home. Racing the SM at other tracks is definitely a possibility, but our thought has been to attend DE’s or track days at these tracks so we could both drive and get more track time while there. Basically, we just want to go out and have some fun.

The problem is that with all the new high performance street cars at DE’s these days, it is almost like an arms race out there. I can drive the absolute wheels off my SM and still end up driving in my rearview mirror giving point-bys. It’s not nearly as much fun as it used to be.

My latest thought has been to get a GTA/ASA car and do DE’s with it. I am interested in an easy to maintain car that isn’t going to break the bank to operate. I do my own work. There was much more chatter on the forums about these cars in the early/mid 2000’s. Would a GTA car still be a good option for what I am looking to do? Or are there better options out there these days?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

theamxguy

I have been considering the same thing. As I modify my street/track Corvette and it gets faster and faster on track and more and more expensive and less and less comfortable on the street I have been watching the racingjunk classifieds and watching GTA/ASA cars. As a dedicated track toy I believe they may pack the most bang for the buck. They are probably one of the safest and fastest track cars a person can own for under $30K. A roller can be had for under $10k if you prefer to build your own engine and select your own gearbox. Brakes tend to be exceptionally durable and scrub tires are quite inexpensive as well. Most have a real racing transmission with dog rings (Jerico, Tex 101 etc) and a light clutch assembly already in them. If you need to be quicker, downforce can be increased with a wing and front splitter. Even with a mild pump gas engine, they will generally outrun almost anything that shows up at an HPDE day. Even shock and spring changes are fairly inexpensive. . Do it! Then tell us how it turns out for you and your wife! I am about to run Road Atlanta again, and I am wishing I had a cage in my car. I am hauling my car on a trailer anyway, so I could just as easily trailer a faster safer car (GTA/ASA) which would cost similar money to my car.

clubracer23

I had a ASA/GTA car that I did some track days and a few races in SCCA GT2 with and I sold it to buy a Corvette race car. Personally I prefer the Corvette. It was a nice Howe chassis car (Howe ASA center section with Howe front & rear clips). It had a really nice 5 Star fiberglass Monte Carlo body with a fuel injected LS engine, Tex Racing transmission and a Winters quick change. I sold it for 20k and the guy I sold it to took it out a few times and sold it to another guy for 20k who took it out a few times and sold it for 20k.

SouthernSon

I have three friends that sold theirs too after owning and tracking a couple of years. The ASA vehicles seemed to always be trouble and breaking down. They went back to corvettes.

millsj

Thanks for the feedback. Any specific weak points? I would think that being simple, they wouldn't be much effort to maintain (or more than any other dedicated track car).

64drvr

I’ve not owned an ASA car but generically speaking it makes sense to me to have a very light car, as that reduces stress on everything else as well as allows smaller components from less stress. I would also consider a Radical.

Nokones

I had an ASA car and it was a lot of fun. My car was a 2005 Howe chassis with a 5-Star composite Monte Carlo body. I got the car when it was only 6 months old and very fresh build just before the Series was discontinued. My car had the LS fuel injected Schwanke (sp) motor with a Jericho and Winters quick-change, and a GM Racing ECM. The car had an electric trans and diff coolers. The only thing I didn't like about the car were the AP Racing brake system. The car was set up for the Charlotte and Atlanta Motor Speedway. After I bought the car I made the learn how to make right turns on a road course. I ran the car in the San Francisco Region SCCA regional events in the GTA class. The only reason I sold the car was because I had too many cars and I was building a SCCA CAM autocross car. I wish I still had the car.

clubracer23

Most of those cars aren’t that fresh any more and have had a lot or wear and tear on the fabricated suspension parts like the knuckles control arms, radius rods, etc. I have had a few suspension failures. Thank god none of them too serious. I’m not talking about collision damage or damage from an off track excursion either. Im talking about fabricated suspension parts failing on track. Personally I feel more comfortable with factory suspension parts engineered for hundreds of thousand miles.
I also damaged my ASA car and it wasn’t any cheaper or easier to fix than a steel frame Corvette. Funny thing is I spun it in front of a C6 Corvette that hit me and in this particular instance the Corvette was a lot less to repair.

athornt2

My personal experience: I've road raced late model stock cars since 2015. I've owned 1 perimeter car and 2 straight rails (yes, that's right) - all of them I converted from circle track racing setups. Right side weight percentages between a perimeter chassis and straight rail chassis aren't as drastic as you'd think and you don't have to have a "road race" front clip to make the cars fast. You do obviously have to square up the suspension parts (LF - upper control arm, lower control arm, spindle, tie rod, and add a fixed sway bar arm). In my experience, I've only had 1 suspension parts failure and that was 100% my fault as I didn't identify and change out an an aluminum heim joint before going to Daytona. I've had my jerico transmission rebuilt once and I've lost 1 LS engine (also at Daytona and it was a used engine when I bought it). Before racing late models, I raced a 4th gen Camaro in American Iron with NASA. I've found that parts for stock cars have been way cheaper and more robust, especially the consumable parts. Hoosier bias ply tires are around $160ea or if you're just doing HPDEs you could find take-offs for next to nothing. A set of brake pads is $150-250 depending on the type of caliper and pad choice. Hubs are serviceable and rebuildable. In the event of a bad enough wreck, you can have a front clip replaced for $3k-$4k and body panels are inexpensive from Five Star. Rear clips are typically much less expensive. These cars are also very easy to work on as there is tons of room for access. I've never raced a corvette in W2W competition but I have driven them before. I love corvettes and outfitted properly, a corvette is probably a faster car. In my experience they are also easier to drive. Stock cars are very raw and you have to get up on the wheel to go fast. "Stock cars" have gotten a bad stigma from much of the community because of reliability issues, bad drivers, etc. Many of these observations are valid, however I've had a positive experience and would recommend them to anyone interested.

ban-ls1

I also have a GTA car that I currently race with SCCA. My advise would be to purchase a complete car that has been racing and not a project. I purchased a circle track car and converted it to a road race configuration. I learned a lot through the process but at the cost of some reliability issues and breakdowns. Now that the car is dialed in it is very reliable. Like the previous post said, the stock cars have a more raw feeling to then a Corvette. I previously tracked a C5 prior to racing my GTA car and I will say that the consumables a much more affordable with the stock car. The ASA engines are dry-sumped and very reliable. Being that they are built with stock type parts the refresh cost is very low. I personally think it would be much more expensive to repair a Corvette than a late model or ASA car. You can find good Rollers for $3,000-7,000. The cars seem to hold their value very well and it shouldn't be hard to sell if you decide it's not for you.

millsj

Thanks for the additional information. This has been very informative. I’m not all that familiar with their suspension setup. How accessible are replacement parts? Can you just go to a used nascar parts place and find replacements/spares? A prior posted mentioned custom parts. What parts would be custom?

just thinking out loud here. I’m not a carburetor person (everything I have owned is injected). If you got a roller or wanted to swap motors, could you just swap in a crate LS3 motor?

athornt2

Not sure about the custom parts. Everything I can think of on my car is off the shelf. You can get just about everything you'd need from Lefthander Chassis, Port City Chassis, Howe Racing, Mike Cope Racing, Five Star Bodies, Shoenfeld Headers. You can also pick up used parts from Circle Track Warehouse etc. There are also tons of used parts that are sold on facebook. Xfinity/Cup parts are a little different from ASA/Late model parts.

You can absolutely run a crate ls3 however you'd need to dry sump it for reliability. I agree with the post above about buying a built/sorted car. It will be cheaper and get you on track much faster.

millsj

Good to know about the parts. I was hoping parts were readily available.

Thinking out loud again....regarding tires, I know you have to run the bias ply tires if you race. However, if I am only doing track days, I wouldn’t have that limitation. My concern with the race tires is that they might not last long with my wife and I both driving during a weekend. If it were our local event, it would be eight 20 minute sessions a day and two days. We usually run back to back, so only 4 heat cycles a day, but I’m guessing tires would last one maybe two weekends max.

I have read references to people converting these cars to run corvette rims. I assume 18” rims. How hard is the conversion? I assume the lug pattern isn’t the same. If I went that route, I could run Nitto NT01’s or some similar treaded track tire. More initial cost but they would last a lot longer.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

millsj

I have no interest in building a car or taking on a project. I would only consider a complete running car or one minus an engine. I’d rather spend my time learning how to drive it than working on it.

athornt2

For racing, the biggest downside to the bias plys is that they lose their speed very quickly (1-2 races, approx 1-2 seconds). The good thing for HPDE is that they have a lot a tread and will last a fairly long time until they cord. A Hoosier 3045 or an F45 would be a good hpde tire as they are a little harder than the softer/faster 3035. I’m sure you could convert over to a street tire but I’m not sure what that would entail. The bias plys are 27” tall so you’d have to take that into account when choosing a street tire.

millsj

I know there are probably variations between brands, but in general how do the grip levels degrade on the bias ply tires with use. If they loose 1-2 seconds early on, how about for the rest of their life? Do the grip levels stay pretty consistent until they cord or do they gradually fall off or ??????.

i know regular Hoosiers fall off a cliff after a while. Didn’t know if the BP tires acted the same.

exracer28

Remember these are lighter than a Corvette and the cars do not have ABS so you may lockup a tire until you get used to the car. Tire wear is also influenced by rubber compound with softer tires wearing faster. Look at Hoosier web site for tires and you will start to get an idea on why you want to stay with slicks and rain tires if you want to run in the wet. There are two types of wheels used on that type of car. SCCA rules for GTA required 15" 5X5 steel wheels but in GT2 you can run the wide 5 15" wheel. A number of shops in the SE know how to convert oval track cars to a road race setup. The brakes are great for road racing and pads are low cost.

athornt2

The majority of my experience racing has been on 3035s. When they get overheated or have lost the "good" they can get pretty slick. I think the 3045s stand up longer over time. The TA2 Pirelli tire may be worth looking into as I've heard TA2 teams putting upwards of 300 miles on a set of tires. Just to clarify the above, you can run both wide 5s and 5x5s hubs in GTA but it sounds like most of your time will be spent doing HPDEs so it wouldn't matter anyway. We'd love to have you come run GTA with us though!

bb69

My buddy has an ASA car, and I have driven it a bunch. I think it's a blast to drive, but it's no where near as easy to drive as the 99 Vette we share. The Corvette is just about as fast, but that has required: custom suspension (arms, taller ball joints, etc), aero, Stoptech BBK, cooling mods, and all the other normal Vette issues. The Vette cost more in total, and more to operate. It's also much harder to work on.

The ASA cars with bias ply tires don't like to be driven with a gentle hand; they need slip angle in the tires. My buddy bought wheel adapters that allow us to use the Vette wheels. That made it drive more like a Vette, but still harder to drive fast.

As for the maintenance items discussed above, I would suggest a buyer does regular maintenance. Heim joints don't last forever; you have to stay on top of them. However, the car is lighter, and was built to race and service. Case on point, to align the rear axle, you simply hang a string over the axle with a lug nut on each end of the string. There are marks on the frame rail: line the string up and you're done. The parts are much less expensive than Vette parts; specifically wheel bearings and brake pads.

I'd say go for it, but as you can see from the comments, it's not for everyone.

Ken

sccaGT1racer

I have owned 3 of them. X busch 105 wheel base cars that i race in the scca GT1 series. They are very reliable if you know how to prep I have only not finished 2 races in my life and that was due to breaking quick change rear ends. I will only use a ford 9" now with a locker. You have to get up on the wheel to drive these things and will not be fast unless you do. Ive run both radials and bias ply tires on them. Tires are cheaper when compared to 18 inch ho ho's. I currently have mine for sale because im switching over to a howe TA2 camaro to run in gt2.