Tire selection for street and rain track use for different Michelin tires
10-19-2020, 10:05 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Tire selection for street and rain track use for different Michelin tires
Hi everyone,
I wanted opinions on these tires for my C7 Z06 as a street and track rain tire:
1. Michelin Pilot Super Sport ZP (MPSS ZP) (run flat)
2. Michelin Pilot Super Sport (MPSS)
3. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (MPS4S)
4. Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ ZP (MPS A/S 3+) (run flat)
I've tried MPSS ZP on the street and the track (both when dry and wet) and on the track when they're heated they're good enough. However, in the rain they're less than desirable if the track is more than just damp, and on the street they are too stiff and uncomfortable to use esp. with my upgraded suspension. However, I recently got a set of new rims (19"x10" front and 19"x12" rear) with MPSS (non run flat version) and they were great in the rain on the track and also on the street where a lot of the harshness and discomfort with my suspension was gone.
Now I'm wondering how MPS4S and MPS A/S 3+ would compare for my use case based on the previous experience listed. Anyone tried them all and compared them to each other so I can form a better opinion of the ones I haven't tried yet?
Any input is appreciated. Thanks.
I wanted opinions on these tires for my C7 Z06 as a street and track rain tire:
1. Michelin Pilot Super Sport ZP (MPSS ZP) (run flat)
2. Michelin Pilot Super Sport (MPSS)
3. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S (MPS4S)
4. Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ ZP (MPS A/S 3+) (run flat)
I've tried MPSS ZP on the street and the track (both when dry and wet) and on the track when they're heated they're good enough. However, in the rain they're less than desirable if the track is more than just damp, and on the street they are too stiff and uncomfortable to use esp. with my upgraded suspension. However, I recently got a set of new rims (19"x10" front and 19"x12" rear) with MPSS (non run flat version) and they were great in the rain on the track and also on the street where a lot of the harshness and discomfort with my suspension was gone.
Now I'm wondering how MPS4S and MPS A/S 3+ would compare for my use case based on the previous experience listed. Anyone tried them all and compared them to each other so I can form a better opinion of the ones I haven't tried yet?
Any input is appreciated. Thanks.
Last edited by emperors61; 10-19-2020 at 10:06 AM.
10-27-2020, 09:08 AM
#2
Supporting Vendor
I actually own two of the three. That would be the PS4S and the A/s 3 plus ZP.
Honestly I would tell you that I actually prefer the A/s 3+simply because on a dry track while obviously slower they don't lose the rear end the way a PS4S does in about 10 minutes. At that point they're just hot enough that nothing you do will keep the back end stuck if you're going quickly at all. It is a phenomenal summer rain tire. If it's warm and wet that's the droid. The problem is you're looking for a combination of things that don't really fit together all that well.
I have the all seasons because well I try and drive my car as much as I can including in all seasons. like now the lows are in the 30s, and sometimes I go to track cross events through the winter in West Virginia. It's been in the twenties there. A summer tire will not work, and I have had people's jaws on the ground with the a/s 3 plus on the car. They can't wrap their head around how a 500 tread we're tire does The things that can do.
Bottom line is when you're tracking something you don't want lots of tread. All the tires mentioned here have lots of tread. If you want to stay on the streets hard for track that's fine I think you have better options for the dry. So it's really a matter of what you want to compromise.
Personally, and as a reminder I carry all these tires as well as having tested them. And my prices are as good as the big box tire place. I would, based on what you're saying and I'm hearing, which is that the rain is massively important as well, consider the Continental Extreme Contact Sport.
I found them to be much more predictable on the limit then the PS4s. They're still awesome in the rain. And honestly I think they're better behaved on the street. remember part of what gives those michelins their wet performance is a dual compound, and over time those compounds don't always react the same way. And you're never got the same compound the whole way across the tire. It's part of why I think the Continental is probably more consistent. Plus the construction is definitely different you can just feel that in the way they ride.
By the way the only run flat or ZP tires in any of the ones I've been discussing above are my A/s 3+.
Honestly I would tell you that I actually prefer the A/s 3+simply because on a dry track while obviously slower they don't lose the rear end the way a PS4S does in about 10 minutes. At that point they're just hot enough that nothing you do will keep the back end stuck if you're going quickly at all. It is a phenomenal summer rain tire. If it's warm and wet that's the droid. The problem is you're looking for a combination of things that don't really fit together all that well.
I have the all seasons because well I try and drive my car as much as I can including in all seasons. like now the lows are in the 30s, and sometimes I go to track cross events through the winter in West Virginia. It's been in the twenties there. A summer tire will not work, and I have had people's jaws on the ground with the a/s 3 plus on the car. They can't wrap their head around how a 500 tread we're tire does The things that can do.
Bottom line is when you're tracking something you don't want lots of tread. All the tires mentioned here have lots of tread. If you want to stay on the streets hard for track that's fine I think you have better options for the dry. So it's really a matter of what you want to compromise.
Personally, and as a reminder I carry all these tires as well as having tested them. And my prices are as good as the big box tire place. I would, based on what you're saying and I'm hearing, which is that the rain is massively important as well, consider the Continental Extreme Contact Sport.
I found them to be much more predictable on the limit then the PS4s. They're still awesome in the rain. And honestly I think they're better behaved on the street. remember part of what gives those michelins their wet performance is a dual compound, and over time those compounds don't always react the same way. And you're never got the same compound the whole way across the tire. It's part of why I think the Continental is probably more consistent. Plus the construction is definitely different you can just feel that in the way they ride.
By the way the only run flat or ZP tires in any of the ones I've been discussing above are my A/s 3+.
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Sam Strano
Strano Performance Parts
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Sam Strano
Strano Performance Parts
www.stranoparts.com
814-849-3450
More options than any other single company out there. More parts than any other single company I know: Brakes to Safety, Wheels to Exhaust. Suspension to Air Filters: Girodisc, Hawk, Raybestos, Essex Racing/AP, Ferodo, Wilwood, Penske, Koni, Borg Motorsport, Ridetech, Viking, After Dark Speed, Hotchkis, Bilstein, KW, Forgestar, BC Forged, Forgeline, MRR Wheels and on, and on, and on it goes.
10-27-2020, 09:23 AM
#3
Pro
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info Strano. I'll definitely keep you in mind when purchasing. To add a bit more context, I'll be getting a tire trailer and plan on using Hoosiers A7 at the track when dry. So, I was looking for a set of street tires that I can also drive on the track when raining. It looks like the A/S 3+ ZP would be a good choice. I was worried they'd be stiff like the Michelin PSS ZP on the street, however it sounds like they're much softer. I like that the non run flat MPSS are much less stiff than the MPSS ZP. It made the car enjoyable to drive again due to my stiffer suspension. I also would strongly prefer to run a run flat tire on the street for the increased safety. The problem I have with that is I think the run flat nature of the MPSS ZP actually probably lead to bent rims. If my understanding is correct and the A/S 3+ ZP is softer a bent rim should be less likely to happen. I also did switch to Forgeline wheels from the OEM ones recently, so that should also help reduce the chance of a bent rim.
10-27-2020, 09:43 AM
#4
Supporting Vendor
The ZP's are still stiff. They have to be to support the weight of the car. They aren't the best riding tire, they aren't the worst. They're definitely softer than the OEM cup twos on my car. Presumably because it's not as much of a performance tire and it actually has some tread in that tread does have some give in it.
If you're looking for the best ride you don't want a ZP. I do that because there's winter events I tend to drive to if the roads are clear and it's a few hundred miles and it's not worth the risk for me to not have them on the car through an area that there's no chance that I can get a replacementquickly, which means the problems with me getting home and getting back to work.
I didn't know that you had Hoosiers so obviously that takes care of that. It puts the PS4S back into play, although I think I'd still tell you Continentals. They are as far as I'm concerned a bit more street friendly. They work better in the cold than the michelins. So like sub 50°, that kind of thing. In fact for a summer tire they're still amazingly good into the 30s at times. And they actually wear better. If you're running negative camber the smaller the tread blocks are which tends to happen the more the tire becomes a street tire kind of thing, the worst the wear gets. It's actually inverse to treadwear. Higher tread wear tires actually wear more because those tread blocks tend to be smaller. The Continental inner blocks are not as small as the PS4s. So I actually see less bad/quick camber wear on the inside edge of the front with those relative to the michelins, either of them.
If you're looking for the best ride you don't want a ZP. I do that because there's winter events I tend to drive to if the roads are clear and it's a few hundred miles and it's not worth the risk for me to not have them on the car through an area that there's no chance that I can get a replacementquickly, which means the problems with me getting home and getting back to work.
I didn't know that you had Hoosiers so obviously that takes care of that. It puts the PS4S back into play, although I think I'd still tell you Continentals. They are as far as I'm concerned a bit more street friendly. They work better in the cold than the michelins. So like sub 50°, that kind of thing. In fact for a summer tire they're still amazingly good into the 30s at times. And they actually wear better. If you're running negative camber the smaller the tread blocks are which tends to happen the more the tire becomes a street tire kind of thing, the worst the wear gets. It's actually inverse to treadwear. Higher tread wear tires actually wear more because those tread blocks tend to be smaller. The Continental inner blocks are not as small as the PS4s. So I actually see less bad/quick camber wear on the inside edge of the front with those relative to the michelins, either of them.
10-27-2020, 09:48 AM
#5
Stay away from run-flat if you're ever going to track the tire. Just carry a plug kit and a 12V pump. I've used the MPS4S and SS on track a bit and even though they're sort of equivalent - I always ran a bit faster on SS. On the street the MPS4S were a bit more comfortable and they wear a bit slower.
I stay away from run flats