Mcrider

Hopefully GM will expand their support of C8 racing in other classes and sanctioning bodies than just GTLM in IMSA.

What say you?

TrackAire

The C8 would be the perfect car for GM to sponsor a global race series where it is essentially a showroom stock class.

But to answer your question, no.

davidfarmer

No....

maybe another overpriced, outsourced gt3 several years after it’s relevant

F4Gary

Will be interested in Lou's thoughts on this...

tw78911sc

https://www.yoursun.com/sebring/spor...1d1301853.html

SocalC5Z

If GM would just relent and build a street legal club sport version that had the right parts removed and the good stuff added, they would have a global club level to semi-pro racing presence with production-look Corvettes and make a profit while doing so. Delete a bunch of interior and comfort items and add upgraded engine/trans/cooling system radiators and perhaps suspension parts that could work at the club level. Just build the same car each year until the platform expires and watch how many work they way into competition. Never happen I know...

KnightDriveTV

No...ain't gonna happen. Would be nice to see the C7R's end up in GTD though, that's for sure.

Mcrider

I would like to see somebody like Hendrick or Childress expand into IMSA and GTD with the C8. It's time to start trading paint with ALL the big brand names like AMG, McClaren, Lamborghini and others. If GM wants the C8 to be a world class car, then it's time to enter into the fray.

NASCAR owning IMSA, and the slow expansion of the CUP into more road courses is a natural tie in. I watched part of the Dover race and attendance was bleak at best. Penske is already big time in with the Acura in LMP1 and drivers like Montoya and Castroneves.

AverageVetteNut

^^^^^^^^^^ this right there

GM will never do it, but that would be an awesome thing to see. Ford had multiple teams for the GT, And all of the other Ferrari, Porsche, Aston etc... teams out there that get support but are not RUN by the companies.
I'd love to see some GTD program or PWC or something to that effect. That's even closer to the track to the street trickle down they tout.

And yes for the guy that wants a turn key track car that he can do TT or track days or even some SCCA T1 or something that would be great to be offered. Again... not gonna happen but it would be cool.

z28lt1

Seems like we have this same same discussion every few months. What series are you interested in? What "support" do you expect from GM?

Because, if you write a big enough check, you can buy a GT3 C7 from Callaway and race it anywhere in the world that accepts GT3 cars (subject to Callaways ability to provide the proper support). There are at least 2 C7.R LM-GTE cars in private hands that are open to race in WEC GTE-Am, and Asian Le Mans Series and the like.

So, you are able to race a Corvette TODAY in just about any series where they have GT3/GTD and GTE/GTLM cars.

On the other hand, it is true that Corvette is not setup like Porsche and Ferrari where they will support certain customers with factory drivers and other types of factory support. Perhaps that will change, but as Porsche and Ferrari are so much smaller, I would guess they use racing as a profit center and not a cost/marketing center.

Finally, as I stated over and over again, stop thinking the only thing holding people back from racing Corvettes is GM. Ford is willing to help support a team that wants to run its very excellent GTs. As of now, it looks like not a single taker. Risi already owns a GTLM Ferrari, and Ferrari gives him drivers for free, and he still can't afford to race more than 2 races a year. Teams actually own C7.Rs and don't race them. Racing at the top level is expensive, and there are only so many non-factory teams that can afford to do it.

In higher classes, Cadillac is the only DPI customer car there is at the moment (although it seems like Mazda may support customer cars next year), so GM does more than everyone else. Going lower, you can easily buy a GT4 Camaro (maybe a cheap used one now since one of the teams is shutting down).

GM is not Porsche. But they probably support racing as much as just about any brand that is not Porsche or Ferrari. Ford, BMW, Aston in GTE/LM all seem to operate the same way. In GT3, the development, sales and support all belong to Callaway, and maybe more are sold if GM brings that back in-house (which probably means Pratt and Miller) at some point.

All that said, there is a "rumor" the C8 might be more racing customer friendly -- whatever that would mean.

They aren't GTD cars, so that can't happen. You can run a GT3 C7 in GTD though. Hasn't been anything stopping anyone from doing that since Cadillac left GT3 a few years ago.


Like above, there was nothing stopping any of them from running GTD with the C7 GT3 for the last few years at least. GTD usually gets at least some of its financing from an AM driver who wants to pay for a ride. i don't think too many established big-series race teams want to go and lose money in GTD.

All the GTLM and GTE-PRO teams (except Ferrari which is halfway there) are factory teams. Yes, the factories contract out many aspects of running the race team (like GM does with Pratt and Miller). Ford ran 2 factory cars in the US and 2 factory cars in WEC, both run by CGR. They certainly did not have "multiple teams". Ben Keating ran a Ford in GTE-AM in Le Mans, just as other teams have run C7.Rs in AM at Le Mans. Porsche, BMW, Aston all runs factory cars there only as well. What is true though is if you want to run a GT3 C7, you probably don't get much help from the factory (and the rules limit what the manufacturer is allowed to do). That's probably mostly due to the fact that GT3 was the domain of Cadillac until DPI. Hard to blame GM for not wanting its brands competing against each other (although as a counter the VW group cars run against each other). It will be interesting to see how they handle GT3/GTD with a new platform, as its a clean slate to start fresh. Not sure what/how long the Callaway contract is all about in GT3. The other issue for GM is that Porsche and Ferrari have lots of factory drivers because they race all over the world. Those factory drivers can be used to help out teams like Risi and GTD teams. Those models are pretty unique to them, and I don't see GM hiring a stable of factory drivers unless they change the whole way they think about racing. Right now it is an individual geographic marketing expense (which is why there is so little GM racing outside of the US, other GM locations don't want to pay for it). It's certainly something GM could do, it would just take significant deviations from the current operating model to do so.

I do love the idea a few have proposed about a turn-key car for a lower series though. I don't think that its own single-make series really is viable, but certainly as you noted T1 or something would be excellent.

AtomicZ

A C8 equivalent of a Porsche GT3 Cup car would be amazing.

Heck I'd settle for a Z06 "Club Sport"

Mcrider

What do I expect?

For GM, the largest American auto maker, and one of the biggest in the world, to step up and move beyond their massive support of NASCAR and IndyCar, and 2 cars in a junk class of GTLM. I would like to see them provide far more FACTORY support in the way Porsche does.

I would like to see GM racing moved out from the umbrella of control of the marketing dept.

If they are going to sell performance, then SUPPORT performance on the track. I'm betting that NHRA racer John Force gets more financial support from GM to run a bastardized Camaro body, which has ZERO in common with anything from GM, which could help fund somebody actually running a Corvette.

look at Dodge in NHRA Factory Stock class. Then look at sales of Challengers vs Camaro's.

Race on Sunday, sell on Monday!

z28lt1

Thanks. In my (worthless) opinion, this helps form a better discussion than the regular "GM should do more" threads and posts we've been getting, which is why I asked.

So, a racing program similar to Porsche. We both already listed the biggest barrier to this in that it will take a complete fundamental change in the GM's business units are organized and funded today. It's also a reasonably big investment (although tiny compared to GM's revenues and profits) Porsche usually has 15-20 factory drivers on payroll. Plus probably parts and logistics support and I imagine engineering resources. Of course, if they can sell enough race cars, those would be be worthwhile investments.

It's a big ask for GM to go from where they are to get anywhere close to the manufacturer with the most complete sports car racing program there is. But it would be nice, even if it was in less markets. Maybe a small step to get back into GT3 racing in World Challenge or something, since GM shut down the GT3 Caddy program (and that was a factory program), and build from there over time.

TrackAire

For a series to be successful, it needs some sort of TV coverage. Once there is TV coverage, the amateur drivers egos kick in and they want to be in the series. I saw this happen in the Dodge Viper ACR-X race series. No real money to be won, no big name pro drivers, but god damn those guys spent huge money to be in the series. The car was the least expensive part of the equation.

Build something like the Viper ACR-X or the Mustang 500S or one of those factory race equivalents. Maybe $30k to $50k over the base price of the car. Keep it simple and keep consumable costs down.

But why would GM do anything that makes sense? History always repeats itself

davidfarmer

The gt3 corvette c7 wasn’t available until last year......who wants to spend $500k and have 1 year to race it?

we had technical support when I raced world challenge in the c5 era. Homologation has changed everything now, without manufacturer direct involvement there is no way to enter a pro level race.

Pacembellum

What does GM need to do?

corvette “cup cars” ala 911 cup cars and Ferrari challenge type cars.

racing engagement. I’ve been to lots of race tracks Chevy always had the worst or non existent customer engagement. Cadillac was at the last lemans race in Monterey I attended with cars, a trailer, special owners parking area, some type of driving experience event, etc. GM could have people lined up to drive a C8 on track before the race starts. Or in between sessions even just a fast lead/follow would be amazing. How about a big trailer with Chevy info, cars, memorabilia. Ford had a GT350R you could sit in! Also a Raptor lead open and a Ford GT (couldn’t sit in). Race fans are there and want to engage but Chevy isn’t paying attention.

Bill Dearborn

They need to go back to the way they supported racers in the 60s and early 70s. Race parts were available over the local dealer's parts counter. Chevrolet had a book called Chevy Power. Here is a link to the Corvette section of the book to provide an idea of what was in it:
https://www.duntovmotors.com/Corvett...wer%20Book.pdf . There was another section on chassis setup that got very involved in how to make a car handle better. There were special part numbers for GMPP racing parts that could ordered at any dealership. Most dealers worked with racers and parts were available at racer net.

You didn't get a turn key car but reasonably skilled people could purchase a Corvette and make it into a pretty good race car.

The problem with providing a decontented car is the assembly line and parts supply line aren't really setup to do that. To make a car without AC you need to have the parts available to make that possible which means more parts in stock and higher inventory costs. You also need different build procedures and maybe handling equipment which also involves added costs. Those costs affect all the cars not just the decontented cars. How many cars would be ordered like that? Maybe a couple hundred. Certainly not enough to make a profit.

Bill

KnightDriveTV

I always trick/convince myself this is possible because of how the SRT Vipers went from GTLM to GTD, but the Viper was homologated as a Group GT3 car, whereas the C7.R isn't. Callaway homologated the GT3...and yeah...between the former non-compete issue, but then followed up by what appears to be the lack of interest...there goes that. I've never been able to understand though, if GM allowed Weathertech/GTD to be an option for Callaway (and there was no interest), or only the Pirelli series, after the V's left.

Either way...Callaway didn't have the means to keep that deal goin I suppose.

Z06_BluByU

Viper didnt go from gtlm to gtd.. they were different cars. One is the Viper gts-r the other is a Viper gt3-r. Just like the c7r and the ct3 c7

jim2527

I've found this thread to be very interesting. My brothers putting together a GTD team....(non corvette)