KEZ06

I had the chance to be at LeMans this year foe the 24hours. I do not understand why there are no C7Rs in the GTE-Am class. Fors GT is going to win the class but in GTE-Pro the C7R ran more competitively leading the class for most of the race until Magnusson spun and hit the wall.

STANG KILLA SS

GM does not allow it.

dont get Lou started!

93Polo

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/...e-competition/

GM has allowed funded teams to race the C7R, C6R and C5R. GT Am is a class which race year old or older factory chassis. P&M does not produce many chassis and producing customer chassis is rarely profitable.

LTWALTHER2

GTLM has become very competitive, with Ford, Ferrari, and Porsche in the thick of it, now Aston Martin has thrown their hat back in the ring. Hopefully when the new C8R becomes available, they get it dialed in and we see more podiums next year.

z28lt1

Larbre and AAI both ran GTE-AM and C7.Rs at Le Mans previously.

Larbre did a couple of full seasons in GTE-AM with WEC, while AAI had planned to run theirs in the Asian Le Mans Series - I don't know if they made in an entire season.

Larbre ran P2 the last coupe of years. Rumor has it Larbre wanted to keep one C7.R in GTE-AM and run a second one in GTE-PRO and GM either did not offer them enough support, or didn't allow the pro entry entirely, I'm not sure. Either way, there are cars in customer hands, and they have run GTE-AM. I would like to know where the Larbre and AAI cars now, but they don't seem to be running anywhere with anyone.

So many on this forum think there is a massive customer base dying to race these cars. They've sold at least 2 cars to customers in GTE-AM that are not running. You can buy a GT3/GTD Corvette from Callaway tomorrow if you want to and probably be at the starting line in GTD in IMSA, or at least in the World Challenge (whatever the heck that is called now) next month. What to go cheaper? You can buy a GT4 Camaro and be at IMSA next month (as GM has already paid the manufacturer fee). Only one team is running a Camaro. There isn't this massive demand to go race one of these cars. Porsche likes to sell race cars. Ford likes to win races. GM likes to use racing as a marketing tool to sell street cars.

Although to GM's credit, they are the only manufacturer who well sell a customer DPI. So far, none of the other manufacturers are willing to do so.

davidfarmer

GM is a poor sport, and doesn't want competition even from their own brand. They are on quite the losing streak at the moment!

I think Callaway managed 1 WC race last year, maybe 2. They run in the ADAC Masters series, but the only place to see real corvettes race is in Club racing

I don't GM actually makes DPI's do they? It's a Dallara based chassis. I guess you mean GM allows others to buy them, but since none of the DPI's are factory teams I don't think they can stop anyone from buying them. The homoligation process is different than GT cars which have production limits.

KEZ06

I am fairly certain GM will not allow or block even GTE-Am cars in WEC. Convince me otherwise.

z28lt1

DPI Chassis(es?) are standard LMP2s, so no one builds their own chassis. Each manufacturer does some brand design/body work and uses their own engine. The Acuras and Mazdas are factory teams (run by Penske and Joest) and cars are not available to customers. ESM had a deal to be the only team with Nissans until they went under and those 2 cars were sold. While not technically a factory team, at this point you can't buy a Nissan either. Cadillac is the only DPI a team can buy at this point, and there is no factory team, just customer teams.

Callaway couldn't manage running WC and Masters at the same time -- so someone else would need to buy one from them to do it.
Huh? As I just posted, 2 different teams ran Le Mans in GTE-AM a couple of years ago, and Larbre has fun the full season all with C7.Rs the previous 3 seasons, before a switch to LMP2 for this super season. Larbre is not on the entry list for WEC next year in either LMP2 or GTE-AM, but the rumors are they are strongly considering going back to GTE-AM with the C7.R (AM cars have to be 1 year old, so the C8.R would not be eligible). If the actual fact that it has been happening isn't enough to "convince you otherwise" then I don't have any reason to try.

rocsvette

GM does allow older chassis in GT AM, back in 2011 P&M Corvette won GT Pro and Larbre in a C6R won GT AM. As to DPi, anyone can buy one of 2-3 homologated/approved chassis but if you want the Cadillac motor you have to be approved. Cadillac provides overall engineering, represents all the teams in IMSA meetings, arranges for the motors and the engineering of those motors with ECR for the teams. BTW those of you familiar with the NCM HPDE program have met the Cadillac Racing Program Manager - that’s Cadillac equivalent to Fehan at Corvette.

jefnvk

I'd imagine that building your own custom engine from the ground up to fit into a race car is a step many privateers don't want to undertake when easier and more supported options are available, unless P&M offers their engines to the public in a manner I'm not aware of.

KEZ06

Tap the brake there chief. Corvette was not in the field this year in the AM class and you yourself said "Rumor has it Larbre wanted to keep one C7.R in GTE-AM and run a second one in GTE-PRO and GM either did not offer them enough support, or didn't allow the pro entry entirely, I'm not sure."

93Polo

Much of the on going gripe is that everything (motor and chassis) has to be homologated and GM wants only their version to be homologated. If you search LG's posts they'll go into their obstacles.

The absence of a GT AM effort as with most things is likely multi faceted. GM likely hasn't been the most supportive. Labre is a very competent team which likely required minimal support from P&M past supplying parts. I haven't verified but I'd be surprised if Labre wasn't getting engines from P&M. GM isn't making money on a GT AM effort and GM Europe which would have to fund a semi factory backed team isn't willing to spend money on a project. However, GM has shown that if a well funded team shows interest a deal is possible. The other down side is rules / BoP have been more easily adapted to turbo cars. BoP is issued with weight, fuel capacity and restrictors to change HP. Past topics have discussed that the C7R needs a new cam to support a larger restrictor which would require the motor to be rehomologated, something GM hasn't been willing to do with the C8R on the horizon. A C7R just isn't very attractive to customers at the moment especially in a series where Ferrari and Porsche are supporting customers. I also don't see a team getting the funding needed to field an IMSA GTLM team.

z28lt1

Your statement was that they won't allow GTE-AM cars. My comment that they might not allow GTE-Pro cars or support it well enough has no impact on the fact that multiple teams have entered GTE-Am already. By the way, I should add that my comment was based upon "rumors" and Larbre's official statement was they wanted a second GTE-AM C7.R and weren't able to get one (they also mentioned it was aging). Their explanation may be valid as I believe the factory team only has 3, the two cars that run and the spare, so its not surprising there wasn't an extra for Larbre (and my guess is "aging" partly referred to the fact that GM won't build anymore with C8.R efforts underway as they mentioned the C8.R wasn't ready in the same sentence), but it could also be true GM will say no to a GTE-Pro entry with a private car.

I know you have it in here, but with posts above this, it should be noted that you can't just build any old engine and stick it in the car. It has to be the homologated package (although you can change certain things in the rules). So, I don't see how you get an engine from anyone but P&M. Maybe you buy some parts and assemble/rebuild your own, but you can't just build something in the garage and go (in WEC, IMSA,etc...there are other places to race)

LG's obstacles, while very valid at the time, don't apply today. You can't just build a race car and go racing in these classes anymore like LG did. Everything is homologated and to spec and there aren't any privately built cars (outside of the one vendor the manufacturer chooses). When IMSA did away with ST cars and moved to TCR, that did away with anyone building their own race cars and racing in a top series around here. It's not a GM thing. It's a rules/regulation thing. There's a builder of a type of car (For Corvettes, P&M for GTE/GTLM, Callaway for GT3) and that's how it gets homologated and with that you can go racing in multiple series around the world (with a few changes between series). There aren't any LGs building any type of car anywhere at this point in GT4, GT3/GTD, GTLM, LMP2, DPI, etc. Some cool LMP1 cars if you want to build a race car, I guess....

93Polo

Agreed, I was leaving the door open for Labre to build an engine to P&M's homologated specs but doubted they would do that.

I believe LG's goal was to homologate their car to full FIA standards and their complaint was GM blocked them from doing so. In GM's defense the other manufacturers only have 1 version as well. The last car I can remember which may have 2 homologated cars were the Rafanelli and Pro Drive 550Ms but I maybe wrong.

TLGunman

In Lou's case, GM did approve Riley to build a GT2 spec car. Then decided they wanted to leave GT1, and race GT2, so they gave P&M the authority to build the cars. Per the ACO/FIA rules, you had to have GM's signature to homologate a GM car, so that ended the LG/Riley car. (worked for Riley at the time)