Moundir

Hey guys, my car currently has hotchkis bars, bilstein sports shocks, lowered one inch and has z06 allignment specs. I am looking to get much better handling and was thinking of going coilovers(dont know who's and what spring rates), hal 12 adjustable shocks, t1 race bars, t1 allignment specs, and polyurathane bushings :crazy: What do you guys think? $$$ is also a factor to me, since it doesnt grow on trees :(
I'm still undicided about the coilovers and whether or not they are worth it. Also is upgrading the sway bars worth it? I need my fellow racer's help on this one. I dont want to waste $$ and still be unhappy with my car's setup. This should be intresting :seeya

ifeeltheneedforspeed

Better handling on the track or the street?

Warp Machine

Invest $$$ in driving classes...this will make you faster. Then MOD your car.

no cure

Excellent advice!

and I agree..

however, I've riden in "the best handling C5 that is still completely streetable" and here's what he's got, if (burnt out) memory serves me..

btw - his vendors were DRM and VBP (together)

coil overs using Eibach springs, 700x225x550 Front and 800x225x600's Rear, with 225 helper springs and spring couplers..
JRZ shocks with C4 dog bones
T1 front swaybar and 01 Z06 rear bar
all bushings (All, including motor + transaxle mounts) replaced
modest track/street alignment, 1.5 neg camb F, 1 rear..
properly corner weighted by leading race shop
mini tubbed in back, courtesy of LPE, so he runs 12's out back

on his street tires (pilot sports) this car will Easily out handle almost anything, like say 99.99% of any car with a license plate, much less stereo and a/c that one will encounter on a public road. on track it sticks with purpose built race cars that should have huge advantage, but have none.. just Friggin aye-mazing.
the level that a C5 can achieve is astounding, given the right talent and $ put into it. these chassis are amazing platforms to start with.

David

pining away (most heavily) to duplicate Mike's setup. ahh, just that lil matter of a few thousand bucks. but worth it? oh, is it so! worth it..

John Shiels

You need tires (slicks) first. Way more important then start on suspension. Call me if you want :D Track time too. I would wait on the coilover for now. Just sorry I never could take you for a ride this year :cry


[Modified by John Shiels, 9:23 PM 10/30/2002]

Moundir

Both :D But mainly the track :yesnod:
Warp machine thanx for the advice, I plan on getting some driving lessons, but would also like my car to be ready for I have to dish out to it :lol:
John I would love to take a ride with you. Do you instruct at all? If not maybe you should, it's a good way to get free track time :yesnod: I do plan on running with racing slicks. I wanted to complement them with a great suspension setup as well. Why do you think that I should hold off on the coilovers? thanx guys keep the info coming. :seeya

John Shiels

I know how good my car handles without them and you said $$$$$$ you can drive mine on the street and see but that is no real test. The full race Vipers at the NJ Viper club did not show me a thing, The old z51 springs did a 1:37 at Pocono long course they ain't so terrible, That was with 400 RWHP. Coilovers would be at the end of my list. Bushings are a big help. 450 RWHP now I can't wait. Glad your hooked
:lol: :D :seeya

redvetracr

Moundir,
First rule of racing You absolutly MUST have a money tree in your yard (I need two one in the front yard and one in the back!!) second rule, if your concerned with what "go faster" stuff costs refer to first rule. In other words learn to drive FIRST, learn to drive fast second and worry about making your car faster last.
...redvetracr

PS: Have you considered what the "C" word will cost?? You know starts with a C ends with an h and has a ras in the middle, this one might just keep you on the porch.

Moundir

I dont mind spending 3K a decent suspension :yesnod: I'm not looking for the best of the best, I know that will cost me more than I can afford :crazy: Any advice about a setup for my price range? Should I to a t1 setup?? Anyone have any advice other than than the obvious learn how to drive your car first :rolleyes: Thanx guys :p:

ghoffman

I think the thing that really needs changing is the suspension bushings. The lower front stock rubber bushings extrude out due to the braking forces and will need replacement soon anyway. The VPB bushing kit is very complete but a total PITA to install, but worth it.
Beyond that, spend your money next on shocks (Koni, Penske, etc.) and wheels and tires. We run 60-61 second laps at Lime Rock with a almost totally stock 01 Z06 and the T1 kit is worth maybe 1-2 seconds at most. Fresh tires, brakes, and the correct setup for each track (and the obvious seat time comments) will do more than any other mods. The best tires on a stock setup will handle better than so-so tires on the best setup.
Coil overs are very time consuming to set the corner weights with. You need to remove the wheels and adjust the threaded ring and then lower the car, rock and roll it, the repeat the process. Some coil over setups are easier than others depending on if the shock is "up" or "down". With the stock type springs, especially in the rear, it is very easy and fast to do with out removing the wheels. The fronts need to be removed, but is very easy to adjust.
I have seen many many people with very trick cars run slower than spec Miatas and IT-B Escorts. Until you can beat them with an almost stock (tires, brakes, setup) C5, spend the money on travel, hotel rooms and track time.



[Modified by ghoffman, 12:13 PM 10/31/2002]

Moundir

I have no problems beating these cars badly with street tires, and hawk pads and the above mentioned suspension mods :D Does that mean I can go ahead and step up my setup :yesnod: :seeya Thanx for the great info ghoffman. I am really surprised that the t1 setup only yielded you 1-2 from a z06 setup :chevy I guess I will just keep the hotchkis then and save some $$ there :D

John Shiels

go to Lime Rock found those pads for ya T-1 bars and bushings :D


[Modified by John Shiels, 9:22 AM 11/2/2002]

Moundir

My car is too freaking loud. Also, I believe it's sold out as well :( If you can get me in, I'll go with you. Btw you selling your t1 bars or what??? :seeya

ifeeltheneedforspeed

Moundair, I agree with Ghoffman. Keep what you have and try race tires next. I'm not to hot on bushings as they compromise street driving comfort and sanity more than I could stand. With your current set up (suspension and horsepower), and race tires, if you can't come close (within one second) of the T1 track record then concentrate on driving instructions untill you are there.

John Shiels

as of Wed. there were openings I love my T-1 bars I am going to watch. Throw a stock set of mufflers on, I got a set from Carmin they throw them out all the time it's a fast change call PDA don't go by website

rbeckham

John - Please understand there is no disrespect intended, but when are we going to see you running your hot car on the tracks?? We all need some benchmarks to relate to. Regards, Robert

Jim 47

Mike:

You could try the complete T-1 system which (I think) includes the bars, links, shocks. springs, and bushings. It's a proven/balanced system and I think you should be able to get it for under $2500. If you could sell some of the stuff you have now, it will lower your net cost. Good luck in finding the combination that's best for you. :cool:

John Shiels

First race of the year next year after blowing it up on 4-29-02 and buying a new motor immediately and all the coolers ( diff, tranny, rad/oil cooler, accusump) within 3 weeks it was left untouched for a long time. Everything I could do I did to expedite. I guessed 6 weeks max. The rest was the tuners job. I hoped at the latest in would have been ready for the long course at Pocono in early Aug. (at the latest) with PDA after many delays. I got the car back in Sept. :mad . I also blew the rear the 4-29-02 so bought one of those brand new 3:42 with the motor. Got the car back the new rear lasted 350 miles and whined. The ring and pinion went. So I bought another one and drove that 400 miles and that one did the same thing ring and pinion shot. Keep in mind this was when I was breaking the new motor in so it was not abused in any way. The original last 58,000 with no coolers. I now put in a used 2:73 to see what is going on did I get 2 bad rears? I don't want to buy anymore. Everything looked good when they installed it. I have about 300 miles on the 2:73 with no noise and 1000 -1100 on the new engine. The heads has to be redone and a new cam. When it blew up the rods let go, pistons broke apart, and holes in the block, not a pretty site. Now it has 450 RWHP /400 TQ. I even bought a Sparco seat which I never used and had Gary rush me a seat mounting kit :rolleyes: still not in the car.
Bought new tires and pads to :rolleyes: So if I add all the payments, insurance, and parts and money spent I would :U . I never used the car all year. I might have went with a bigger motor if I knew it would have taken this long. I don't really enjoy riding on the street much with it so I will have it for a year by the time the season rolls around again with no use :U :U :U :U :U :U I did take the GS to an event in May but put it on the trailer after six laps when I realize I would wreck it after running the 99 the car did not stop with stock brakes. I really put it out of my mind after Pocono long course and gave up begging to get it finished. If I get the car sorted and together I did want to go to Sebring event just before Christmas but I guess I really doubt that will happen. I have a godson in FL so it would be a split mission. I don't want to drag it down there in snow storms as my luck is going. I don't even have the GS on the road as I paid 1600 for insurance and drove it less than 500 miles :( that is my season in a nut shell. I learned I would never take a car for work without a contract as to when it will be done. Now I hope to cage it this winter. I even bought new Crow belts and BK brackets more unused crap to look at :cry I drive my truck to work with tools and stuff I need so it isn't that easy to put miles on the car now. I hope I did get two bad rears because knowone can see anything wrong. I purchased the rears so I know they new. Now that I vented life is short. In tewnty years I'll be 70 not a long time. I just missed an entire season how many are left. I raced boats from 83-98 and I love racing as much as anyone. The car was a welcome transition to something less costly but still getting to be more than I imagined when I started. Also bought a trailer and I guess part of the truck to race. More expense and unused equipment. I wanted to go to the Glen, Summit and Mid Ohio this year with the trailer and truck. I'll be going to the local Vette hangout this morning getting 38 MPG with 450 RWHP :D The car is still fast withthe 2:73 and will spin the tires quite easily. I soon realized I had to console myself with what I will do next year rather than actually race. I took the race pads off so if work permits I will spectate Lime Rock next week with 2:73's. After all this pent-up desire I guess me going to a cold track would not be in my best interest. I did the NJ Viper club, CVCC event and the NEPA event with the GS and that was the season` :cry :seeya Sorry to bore you all. The great lady in my life was also very sad as she loved going and helping in everyway she could to prepare and yes taking a 163 MPH ride at Pocono. She did tell me "the car does not sound natural" just before it lunch bagged itself :D Bless the first motor it took untold punishment RIP. Benchmark :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I just have fun, the bench marks are for myself and I love competition.





[Modified by John Shiels, 7:01 AM 11/3/2002]

ghoffman

The deal with the bushings is that eventually you will have to do something to replace the bushings since they will disappear. There is no service replacement for the stocker, except for replacing the entire control arm. The T1 kit includes new front control arms and the only difference is the durometer of the rubber bushings.
If you do urethane, it is a PITA because to do it right, you have to hand fit some of them (belt sander). Then grease them when you put them in. But even then, no matter waht you do, all urethane bushings I have ever seen will be squeaky. An alternate method is the Delrin kit from Global West. Very nice quality but again even though you will have less squeaks, but will increase road noise.
Bottom line, outside of replacing the lower control arms, if you run these cars on a track with slicks, you will have to do something as a service item anyway. Any bushing kit will make the car handle better since the suspension geometry will not change anywhere as much. As you corner, the urethane/delrin bushings do not deflect as much as the rubber (loosing camber and the toe moves all over the place). The bad news is, it will be a less pleasant road ride, but not that bad, especially if you install them very carefully with lots of grease.
I hate to say it but this is one of those "gotta do sumthin" anyway deals.

Moundir

Fast change my **** :mad I have the slp loudmouth and it's a piece of poopie to keep taking off an on :cuss