fatbillybob

The crash delta of Dale Earnhardt was under 45mph about 50g's. With modern safety that is about the limit in a streetcar no helmet going to the store. Proper racecar safety systems have black box recordings over 100g's surviveable. It is not going 100mph and losing control it is the actual decleration pulse that is the crash "delta."

There is nothing harder than trying to make dual use cars safe. Modern belts don't stretch like only nylon belts of 50 years ago. Racing safety gear is designed around retention. That is why you see **** mountings of harnesses, dual should belt hans spec harnesses, 6 and 7 points, and full containment seats with side nets for starters. When you use a piece of a safety system what you do is possibly make your car less safe than the OEM engineered stuff. When you put in a race seat and a harness you don't engineer it you just got parts off a shelf.

I think we all have to look out for each other out there. Our sport is dangerous. Some get hurt and don't come back. Once of my friends got hurt now is racing vintage. Safety is a compromise but it is like the stock market. You really don't understand "risk" until you lost a lot of money.

kingkyle

Does anyone know how much camber you can get from the stock bolts? And what happens when you max the camber on stock bolts with race tires? They back out or change? It's hard for me to pull the trigger on a $400 set of bolts and shims..

FASTFATBOY

Depends on how far the car is lowered, and trust me they turn better lowered 10mm or less on shocks(non coil overs).

I raised mine back up and got -2.3 on front(can go to -2.8) and -1.5 rear(maxed out). I run the car on slicks with totally stock suspension. I torque the camber bolts to 100ft lbs and mark the camber bolts with a sharpie marker so if they move I can put them back. I have not had them move on me yet.

mountainbiker2

No need for them. You want get anymore neg. camber. I torque the stock camber bolts to #125 Never has moved. Ran on Hoosiers for years that way.

Reggie Dunlop

Same here, running R7s and Raybestos ST43 lining and STAND on the brakes from 135 down to 50 mph and everything stays put.

rigit

so you are running NASA time trial? assuming TT3? Thats what I run. I use a bigger front sway bar, OEM rear, and run square wheel tire setup 315-18's R's all around on 18x10.5 rears. and I use DRM Bilstiens. track pads and good clean fluid, and Ti shims. Drivetrain is bone stock. if you dont have a harness bar, Id suggest do that ASAP. wrestling the car takes a lot out of you, and loses focus. A seat is good too, but a harness alone helps a bunch. my next mod will likely be control arm bushings.
FYI, I also street drive the car, so I have a compromise alignment. F -2.0, 0, 8.0, R -1.4, -1/8 total. Another C5Z that I chase runs the JOC suspension package and bushings also on square Rs, but 275's because more power. he runs -2.9 and -1.8 ish IIRC.

mikeCsix

I'm in the minority here, I've had the stock camber adjusters slip while in a turn, glad I was on a track when it happened. These didn't just slip, they cut loose with a bang and a jolt. Fortunately I didn't lose control and was able to safely slow the car down. To me, $400 is cheap insurance.

redtopz

With the stock eccentric bolts at max camber they are less likely to slip because the forces are opposed 90 degrees on the eccentric portion. However, anything less than 90 degrees and there is a greater chance of the bolt slipping and losing all camber which also affects toe. This happened to me in a race at Sonoma years ago and it wasn't fun.

I think in auto-x or hpde you should be fine with the stock bolts. But in TT or racing when hitting berms hard then you definitely want the camber kit.

froggy47

Mostly folks who have the stock camber bolts slip is because they (or bubba their alignment guy) put an open end on the nut & pulled as hard as they could & called it good (maybe they got to 80-90 ft lbs).

I do run the blocks because I run sticky tires & extra neg. and don't want to even think about it once it's set. I put witness marks & just eyeball them b4 every event. Never moved once.

I like HD bars (I use t1) because I don't want to drive a car that "leans" every time I turn the wheel. When I want that I drive the wife's Lexus RX350.

Mine is lowered on stock bolts. Ever see the guys who run shifter carts raise them up to make them handle better? Or f1? Or NASCAR? Or any race car (not offroad)?

SunnydayDILYSI

Similar to Froggy, I run the blocks with slicks and ~3.5 degrees negative camber up front to get more even wear and traction. Each car varies, but most seem to top out at negative 2 to 2.5 camber with stock hardware and caster settings. The max neg camber reduces if you extend out the caster (most folks like to run more than stock caster as well). I had a lot of issues with holding the alignment with stock hardware, but I generally have a spin or off road excursion at least once every few weekends so I'm sure that didn't help. I'm also a fan of the T1 bars, but be ready for the shift from understeer to mild oversteer. Regarding lowering the car, keep in mind that lower is faster, but lower is also exponentially more expensive during unplanned off road adventures.

FASTFATBOY

With mine lowered on stock bolts it ran out of rear shock travel and would push when it did, I am totally stock underneath. When I raised it up some it quit doing it, in turn I was faster because I could get on the gas sooner.

froggy47

Of course I completely understand that.

But if you lower the car, buy the right (shorter) shocks, correct the bump steer, up the spring rate and bars, you WILL have a Vette on rails. But you gotta do the whole suspension program, mistake most guys do is JUST lower it & think that'll work. As you illustrate it does not work by itself.

Moto One

Just a question for you and others, I'm not so low that I bottom out my JRZ's but have had the tire come in contact with the inner wheel well liner. Seem's that turn 3A and 9 at Sonoma are the turns that contact happen most. You would think that the bottom of the cork-screw turn 8 MRLS would do it too, but it No... And this is on street tires.

Mark

froggy47

The liners are soft so it's not too bad so far as upsetting the suspension. I would not worry about it unless you are wearing thru them every event. You are driving a street car like a race car. Race cars don't have wheel well liners (or if they do they are fitted to clear the tires), so little things will happen. My cd player skips a little when I hit a bump hard on track, so I turn it off.

kingkyle

NASA TT2. I bought my 02 C5Z 3 months ago and figured it was stock (still not sure). I figured it would make 350-365whp (on dynojet) and weigh 3150 plus me (3350). Well.... I was wayyyy off. It made 380whp stock and weighs 3220 with me in it and 1/4 tank. I even made 80lbs of balast weight plates mounted under the passenger seat, nice clean install. Then I dyno'd the car. No way I can run TT3 making 383whp. The tuner offered to detune the car but I just can't bring myself to do that. The problem is TT2 is crazy competitive. These dudes are running 1:09's-1:10's and the T1 lap record is 1:11's. I did a 1:13 on 5 year old Hoosiers so I think I can cut a second or two just with new Pirelli slicks. Once I have a race seat/harnesses and better camber I will go a bit faster.... I don't see a stock car going under 1:10 so thats a bummer. Still think that the C5z is the best factory car for this stuff.

rigit

383 stock!!!! holy cow thats strong!!! it has a tune on it? normal is around 350 for bone stock.

take a look at the TT3 calculator spreadsheet available on the nasa website. play around with it. if you really want to play in TT3 it might not be that hard to get there. Note that TT3 uses "Average HP" so your best, then next 3 HP in 500 RPM increments below max divide by 4. so your average is moset like about 360ish. No aero gets you 0.4, and if you run 275's thats another 0.3. add a little ballast, and viola, you make adjusted pwr to weight for TT3. FYI 3250/ 360 avg with no aero and 275 would get your there.

rigit

Off topic Side question. at NJMP, you ever see a fella named will emmons out there running TTD in a stripped red miata all hoped up on goof ***** running 949 15x9 wheels? Thats my old car. I sold it to get into a corvette.

FASTFATBOY

You mean "stock" with headers, intake, exhaust and a tune right?

Mine makes about that power with those mods.

thehaggis

Until you get your seats and harnesses...just in case you haven't found this info in this forum...rubber drawer liner on the seat to keep your butt in the seat a wee bit better and pull the seatbelt all the way out and it will click and lock as you let it back in.

SouthernSon

I have incrementally added upgrades to my car over the last 10 years. It is now lowered, stiffer springs, polys, better shocks, skf's, 318's square, big cam, forged LS6, clutch pack, headers, coolers and a million other little things that I have forgotten. But, it wasn't until I drove a friend's stock C5Z of the same year that I realized how much improvement I have attained. It is either track or street, no compromise is acceptable. A hot shoe that won the Continental tire series at Barber earlier this year said it was the best handling C5Z he has driven, and he drove it well! There are street cars and there are track cars but to do both with one vehicle is always a poor compromise. (my opinions are subject to change day to day).