Thinking about getting a GTA Car
12-08-2015, 07:30 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Thinking about getting a GTA Car
Price point seems great for what you get. But it is hard to find details and cars for sale (most GTA searches result in links to Grand Theft Auto sites). Any GTA guys out there know of good resource sites? From a race perspective, is SCCA the only option? How is the participation? Adding one more question through EDIT. Anyone understand the difference between GT2, TA2, and GTA classes? They seem to be used almost interchangeably. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Thank you
Last edited by SunnydayDILYSI; 12-08-2015 at 07:44 PM.
12-08-2015, 09:52 PM
#3
Well, if it's okay for the number one spark plug to be over the front axle line:
http://www.howeracing.com/p-7868-per...road-race.aspx
http://www.howeracing.com/p-7861-rt-road-race.aspx
http://www.howeracing.com/p-7343-und...perimeter.aspx
Now, I'm planning a commercially available C5-clone-chassis-with-roll-cage for January of 2017. And with that chassis, the entire engine block will position behind the front axle line. Of course, building a race car from a bare chassis avoids the gutting of an OEM car
.
http://www.howeracing.com/p-7868-per...road-race.aspx
http://www.howeracing.com/p-7861-rt-road-race.aspx
http://www.howeracing.com/p-7343-und...perimeter.aspx
Now, I'm planning a commercially available C5-clone-chassis-with-roll-cage for January of 2017. And with that chassis, the entire engine block will position behind the front axle line. Of course, building a race car from a bare chassis avoids the gutting of an OEM car
.
Last edited by B Stead; 12-08-2015 at 10:39 PM.
12-08-2015, 10:01 PM
#4
Safety Car
If you go this route make sure you really understand what you are getting. I have read several posts from people that thought they were getting a road racing version... Only to find out that the frame was built for driving in circles and had screwy suspension mods to make it turn right. There is a great post on this forum where a buyer found out after purchase that his car was built to turn left.... It was AMAZING what he went through to balance out the car. I was very impressed with his efforts and skill, but I wouldn't want to go through it. These cars seem to be a great performance value, just make sure you know what you are getting.
Enjoy the search.
Charley
Enjoy the search.
Charley
Last edited by Charley Hoyt; 12-09-2015 at 12:00 AM.
12-09-2015, 07:48 AM
#7
Drifting
As Brad (Capt Buddha) suggests, Gregg Rodgers in Texas is an excellent source for info, sales and service on GTA cars. The ex ASA National tour cars are the best and easiest to convert to road racing. Nice examples can be found for around 25 K and sometimes less.
GTA cars can be legal for SCCA GT2. They are regionally competitive but a bit off for Majors or the Runoffs. (Brad did manage a fine top ten at the runoffs)
Trans Am TA2 cars are legal for GT2, but are not legal for GTA.
GTA cars can be legal for SCCA GT2. They are regionally competitive but a bit off for Majors or the Runoffs. (Brad did manage a fine top ten at the runoffs)
Trans Am TA2 cars are legal for GT2, but are not legal for GTA.
12-09-2015, 09:45 AM
#8
Burning Brakes
If you go this route make sure you really understand what you are getting. I have read several posts from people that thought they were getting a road racing version... Only to find out that the frame was built for driving in circles and had screwy suspension mods to make it turn right. There is a great post on this forum where a buyer found out after purchase that his car was built to turn left.... It was AMAZING what he went through to balance out the car. I was very impressed with his efforts and skill, but I wouldn't want to go through it. These cars seem to be a great performance value, just make sure you know what you are getting.
Enjoy the search.
Charley
Enjoy the search.
Charley
. Glad I didn't get into that with my project.Not all left turn chassis were that left turn specific. I have an old late 90s Townsend chassis and the only asymmetrical stuff I've been able to determine is the LF upper control arm mounts were welded on 1/2" further out and forward than the RF. I was able to add a 1/2" shim bar and get the alignment pretty even with the RF. The tabs could easily be cut off and welded back on to make it square. The RR lower control arm mount is adjustable but can be set square or shifted fore or aft to make the rear steer a little. It did have asymmetrical spindles on it which I replaced with symmetrical Coleman spindles. I put a basic -2.5* camber, +4* caster, 1/8" toe out setup on it and the car is dead on neutral to drive.
My car is not what the OP is looking for but I never intended to go racing with it. It has the smaller 15x8 wheels and tires and I put a stock 351w engine in to run track days. I started to upgrade to the 15x10 wheels but decided it didn't fit my low budget approach. More info on my car can be seen HERE if anyone wants a low budget track day car. I put it up for sale because my life is entering a new phase and I need a larger tractor.
I agree the better approach for someone that wants to go racing is to spend the 25K and get a proven prepared road course car.
Last edited by Han Solo; 12-09-2015 at 09:47 AM.
12-11-2015, 08:51 AM
#9
Melting Slicks
The guys at BEMCO Fab in Deland, Fl. are also a great source of info and cars. Just because a chassis was built for circle track, does not mean it can't be set up for road course. Woody and Bosco are great guys. I bought a GTA car and although I have only run it once, they are really fun to drive. E-mail or PM if I can be of help. JD
12-11-2015, 09:56 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Sep 2011
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth TX
Posts: 942
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My GTA car was bought from Gregg Rodgers at Pinnacle. If Bosco vouches for Gregg at Pinnacle, you can trust what he says. Bosco is well respected here and Gregg at Pinnacle has built and raced these cars for years.
GTA class cars are typically ASA cars (now defunct race series) that are set up for road racing. There are enough of them around that some regions have enough cars to run a big GTA class.
GTA cars can race in the GT2 class in SCCA. GT2 in SCCA has all kinds of cars that compete and is obviously not limited to a GTA/ASA car.
GTA cars used to be able to race in TA2 but I believe that changed a couple years ago. A TA2 car can race in GT2 divisional or majors races in SCCA. It is not uncommon to see a SCCA GT2 class race with TA2 cars, GTA cars, older porche cup cars, and lots more.
A GTA car can race in NASA. Depending on your adjusted power/weight ratio you can race either ST1 or SU. If you don't weigh as much as me you can just add ballast to make your car ST1 legal. Racing SU is fine but you brought a knife to a gun fight if the big boys show up.
I am local and know Captain Buddha well. Hopefully you can meet up with us on a Tuesday night and we'll answer all your questions. A properly built GTA car is tough to beat for the money. You'll have to pony up a lot more for a car with comparable speed and your operating costs are almost certain to be higher with any other kind of GT2 legal car.
GTA class cars are typically ASA cars (now defunct race series) that are set up for road racing. There are enough of them around that some regions have enough cars to run a big GTA class.
GTA cars can race in the GT2 class in SCCA. GT2 in SCCA has all kinds of cars that compete and is obviously not limited to a GTA/ASA car.
GTA cars used to be able to race in TA2 but I believe that changed a couple years ago. A TA2 car can race in GT2 divisional or majors races in SCCA. It is not uncommon to see a SCCA GT2 class race with TA2 cars, GTA cars, older porche cup cars, and lots more.
A GTA car can race in NASA. Depending on your adjusted power/weight ratio you can race either ST1 or SU. If you don't weigh as much as me you can just add ballast to make your car ST1 legal. Racing SU is fine but you brought a knife to a gun fight if the big boys show up.
I am local and know Captain Buddha well. Hopefully you can meet up with us on a Tuesday night and we'll answer all your questions. A properly built GTA car is tough to beat for the money. You'll have to pony up a lot more for a car with comparable speed and your operating costs are almost certain to be higher with any other kind of GT2 legal car.
Last edited by MarkDFW; 12-11-2015 at 10:04 PM.
12-12-2015, 06:56 AM
#11
Safety Car
I once converted an oval car to a road race car. i never want to do that again. Ever.
Be careful what you buy.
Richard Newton
Historic Racing Images
Be careful what you buy.
Richard Newton
Historic Racing Images
12-15-2015, 10:35 AM
#13
just wanted to chime in
I researched going with a " Road Race Stock Car " for over 6 month's
After that time the following :
Although the ad's state " road race chassis " you'd have to be able to walk up to the car and visually identify what it actually is, not necessarily what you're told
- be able to identify who made the chassis, which one's you'd want and the one's you don't
- if it's a conversion how to determine if it is and IF its done right
- if a " road test / track test " is available how would you determine what a " good one " ( proper set up ) drives like vs one that doesn't
( poor/ incomplete conversion / twanged chassis, etc )
- which gear box is the " hot set up " ( desirable ), which aren't and be able to identify what you're looking at
- which diff is on the car ?
- which equipment on the car is wanted vs will have to be immediately replaced
- if you're willing to fly in an inspector and no deal, how many times would you like to do that ?
just a few of the concern's I had
seriously recommend knowing what you're buying
I researched going with a " Road Race Stock Car " for over 6 month's
After that time the following :
Although the ad's state " road race chassis " you'd have to be able to walk up to the car and visually identify what it actually is, not necessarily what you're told
- be able to identify who made the chassis, which one's you'd want and the one's you don't
- if it's a conversion how to determine if it is and IF its done right
- if a " road test / track test " is available how would you determine what a " good one " ( proper set up ) drives like vs one that doesn't
( poor/ incomplete conversion / twanged chassis, etc )
- which gear box is the " hot set up " ( desirable ), which aren't and be able to identify what you're looking at
- which diff is on the car ?
- which equipment on the car is wanted vs will have to be immediately replaced
- if you're willing to fly in an inspector and no deal, how many times would you like to do that ?
just a few of the concern's I had
seriously recommend knowing what you're buying
12-16-2015, 07:44 AM
#14
Drifting
A while back I posted this info on converting the ASA cars to road race, some may still find it useful.
ASA GTA car set up info
There seems to be quite a few on this forum that have gone racing in ex
ASA National Tour Stock Cars that are powered by the Lingenfelter LS1.
We have been racing these types since 2005 so I thought I would advise of where we start out (baseline) set up.
Remember: YRMV Your results may vary
Our typical starting point baseline set up for LS1 ASA cars
camber: front about -2 static, but take tire temps to fine tune
rear: have used straight up to -1.5 with no discernible diff
if you have a unconverted car it may have positive camber on the left. It is possible to flip/axle. Likely afterwards will have about -1.5. The right side will likely be about -1.5 as it came.
caster: 4
spindles: 5 degree inclination type we feel are best, often on ex ASA cars you will see 7 degree or other and you can make these work. Some un converted cars will a 7 degree on one side and a 10 on the other...not good. Change that.
sway bar front 1 3/8" splined nascar type Some unconverted cars have the type that is not splined or connected on one side and just comes up and strikes a pad. WRONG!
no rear sway bar
springs 550 front (assuming LS1)
275 rear
Iron block motors about 600/300
3rd link angle about 6-7 degrees down in front
trailing arms: flat
shocks: when we started out we used Pro shocks with a compression/rebound valving of front 5/7 rear 4/6
now we use penske's and woody @ Bemco revalves them to his specs.
We like the watts link to locate the rear end, but the full width panhard type can be made to work well.
Wheels: get rid of the 27# ASA wheels and get some Bassett Inertia Advantage 20# wheels or similar
Gear ratio's: I like 1.9 1.5 1.2 1.0 or similar, so as to use first gear in the slowest corners on the track
Service your quick change in the off season and you should be good in pretty good shape for the year (6-10 weekends)
Get a containment seat, Both Kirkey and Ultrashield make good economical containments
5.5 clutches don't last long, get the 7.25 QM or tilton
No need to twist the Lingenfelter LS1 over 6500 it ain't doing anything.
PFC 01 pads or similar, hawk DTC70, actually I think the 01 has been replaced by the 11.
At least 12.19 rotors x 1.25 in front, 11.75x1.25 in rear OK
Tires: The Hoosier 3035 is fast but goes away pretty quickly...about 5 laps it starts getting pretty greasy.
The 3045 as used in Trans Am 2 is almost as quick initially but hangs in much longer.
Shifters: If your shifter is worn out either the LONG or the Hurst Billett Speedway shifter are excellent. The Hurst is quite a bit cheaper.
Oil: We have used Mobil 1 5-30 without issue but now use Joe Gibbs.
Tranny and rear end lube: Mobil 1
When you go to freshen the motor, I would advise to go to a full three stage dry sump. The Moroso pan can be modified to work.
Fire system: I have added the ten pound automatic type over the fuel cell as used in Nascar. They are available from the used Nascar parts suppliers at decent prices.
ASA GTA car set up info
There seems to be quite a few on this forum that have gone racing in ex
ASA National Tour Stock Cars that are powered by the Lingenfelter LS1.
We have been racing these types since 2005 so I thought I would advise of where we start out (baseline) set up.
Remember: YRMV Your results may vary
Our typical starting point baseline set up for LS1 ASA cars
camber: front about -2 static, but take tire temps to fine tune
rear: have used straight up to -1.5 with no discernible diff
if you have a unconverted car it may have positive camber on the left. It is possible to flip/axle. Likely afterwards will have about -1.5. The right side will likely be about -1.5 as it came.
caster: 4
spindles: 5 degree inclination type we feel are best, often on ex ASA cars you will see 7 degree or other and you can make these work. Some un converted cars will a 7 degree on one side and a 10 on the other...not good. Change that.
sway bar front 1 3/8" splined nascar type Some unconverted cars have the type that is not splined or connected on one side and just comes up and strikes a pad. WRONG!
no rear sway bar
springs 550 front (assuming LS1)
275 rear
Iron block motors about 600/300
3rd link angle about 6-7 degrees down in front
trailing arms: flat
shocks: when we started out we used Pro shocks with a compression/rebound valving of front 5/7 rear 4/6
now we use penske's and woody @ Bemco revalves them to his specs.
We like the watts link to locate the rear end, but the full width panhard type can be made to work well.
Wheels: get rid of the 27# ASA wheels and get some Bassett Inertia Advantage 20# wheels or similar
Gear ratio's: I like 1.9 1.5 1.2 1.0 or similar, so as to use first gear in the slowest corners on the track
Service your quick change in the off season and you should be good in pretty good shape for the year (6-10 weekends)
Get a containment seat, Both Kirkey and Ultrashield make good economical containments
5.5 clutches don't last long, get the 7.25 QM or tilton
No need to twist the Lingenfelter LS1 over 6500 it ain't doing anything.
PFC 01 pads or similar, hawk DTC70, actually I think the 01 has been replaced by the 11.
At least 12.19 rotors x 1.25 in front, 11.75x1.25 in rear OK
Tires: The Hoosier 3035 is fast but goes away pretty quickly...about 5 laps it starts getting pretty greasy.
The 3045 as used in Trans Am 2 is almost as quick initially but hangs in much longer.
Shifters: If your shifter is worn out either the LONG or the Hurst Billett Speedway shifter are excellent. The Hurst is quite a bit cheaper.
Oil: We have used Mobil 1 5-30 without issue but now use Joe Gibbs.
Tranny and rear end lube: Mobil 1
When you go to freshen the motor, I would advise to go to a full three stage dry sump. The Moroso pan can be modified to work.
Fire system: I have added the ten pound automatic type over the fuel cell as used in Nascar. They are available from the used Nascar parts suppliers at decent prices.
Last edited by bosco022; 12-16-2015 at 07:45 AM.
12-16-2015, 09:15 AM
#15
Instructor
A while back I posted this info on converting the ASA cars to road race, some may still find it useful.
ASA GTA car set up info
There seems to be quite a few on this forum that have gone racing in ex
ASA National Tour Stock Cars that are powered by the Lingenfelter LS1.
We have been racing these types since 2005 so I thought I would advise of where we start out (baseline) set up.
Remember: YRMV Your results may vary
Our typical starting point baseline set up for LS1 ASA cars
camber: front about -2 static, but take tire temps to fine tune
rear: have used straight up to -1.5 with no discernible diff
if you have a unconverted car it may have positive camber on the left. It is possible to flip/axle. Likely afterwards will have about -1.5. The right side will likely be about -1.5 as it came.
caster: 4
spindles: 5 degree inclination type we feel are best, often on ex ASA cars you will see 7 degree or other and you can make these work. Some un converted cars will a 7 degree on one side and a 10 on the other...not good. Change that.
sway bar front 1 3/8" splined nascar type Some unconverted cars have the type that is not splined or connected on one side and just comes up and strikes a pad. WRONG!
no rear sway bar
springs 550 front (assuming LS1)
275 rear
Iron block motors about 600/300
3rd link angle about 6-7 degrees down in front
trailing arms: flat
shocks: when we started out we used Pro shocks with a compression/rebound valving of front 5/7 rear 4/6
now we use penske's and woody @ Bemco revalves them to his specs.
We like the watts link to locate the rear end, but the full width panhard type can be made to work well.
Wheels: get rid of the 27# ASA wheels and get some Bassett Inertia Advantage 20# wheels or similar
Gear ratio's: I like 1.9 1.5 1.2 1.0 or similar, so as to use first gear in the slowest corners on the track
Service your quick change in the off season and you should be good in pretty good shape for the year (6-10 weekends)
Get a containment seat, Both Kirkey and Ultrashield make good economical containments
5.5 clutches don't last long, get the 7.25 QM or tilton
No need to twist the Lingenfelter LS1 over 6500 it ain't doing anything.
PFC 01 pads or similar, hawk DTC70, actually I think the 01 has been replaced by the 11.
At least 12.19 rotors x 1.25 in front, 11.75x1.25 in rear OK
Tires: The Hoosier 3035 is fast but goes away pretty quickly...about 5 laps it starts getting pretty greasy.
The 3045 as used in Trans Am 2 is almost as quick initially but hangs in much longer.
Shifters: If your shifter is worn out either the LONG or the Hurst Billett Speedway shifter are excellent. The Hurst is quite a bit cheaper.
Oil: We have used Mobil 1 5-30 without issue but now use Joe Gibbs.
Tranny and rear end lube: Mobil 1
When you go to freshen the motor, I would advise to go to a full three stage dry sump. The Moroso pan can be modified to work.
Fire system: I have added the ten pound automatic type over the fuel cell as used in Nascar. They are available from the used Nascar parts suppliers at decent prices.
ASA GTA car set up info
There seems to be quite a few on this forum that have gone racing in ex
ASA National Tour Stock Cars that are powered by the Lingenfelter LS1.
We have been racing these types since 2005 so I thought I would advise of where we start out (baseline) set up.
Remember: YRMV Your results may vary
Our typical starting point baseline set up for LS1 ASA cars
camber: front about -2 static, but take tire temps to fine tune
rear: have used straight up to -1.5 with no discernible diff
if you have a unconverted car it may have positive camber on the left. It is possible to flip/axle. Likely afterwards will have about -1.5. The right side will likely be about -1.5 as it came.
caster: 4
spindles: 5 degree inclination type we feel are best, often on ex ASA cars you will see 7 degree or other and you can make these work. Some un converted cars will a 7 degree on one side and a 10 on the other...not good. Change that.
sway bar front 1 3/8" splined nascar type Some unconverted cars have the type that is not splined or connected on one side and just comes up and strikes a pad. WRONG!
no rear sway bar
springs 550 front (assuming LS1)
275 rear
Iron block motors about 600/300
3rd link angle about 6-7 degrees down in front
trailing arms: flat
shocks: when we started out we used Pro shocks with a compression/rebound valving of front 5/7 rear 4/6
now we use penske's and woody @ Bemco revalves them to his specs.
We like the watts link to locate the rear end, but the full width panhard type can be made to work well.
Wheels: get rid of the 27# ASA wheels and get some Bassett Inertia Advantage 20# wheels or similar
Gear ratio's: I like 1.9 1.5 1.2 1.0 or similar, so as to use first gear in the slowest corners on the track
Service your quick change in the off season and you should be good in pretty good shape for the year (6-10 weekends)
Get a containment seat, Both Kirkey and Ultrashield make good economical containments
5.5 clutches don't last long, get the 7.25 QM or tilton
No need to twist the Lingenfelter LS1 over 6500 it ain't doing anything.
PFC 01 pads or similar, hawk DTC70, actually I think the 01 has been replaced by the 11.
At least 12.19 rotors x 1.25 in front, 11.75x1.25 in rear OK
Tires: The Hoosier 3035 is fast but goes away pretty quickly...about 5 laps it starts getting pretty greasy.
The 3045 as used in Trans Am 2 is almost as quick initially but hangs in much longer.
Shifters: If your shifter is worn out either the LONG or the Hurst Billett Speedway shifter are excellent. The Hurst is quite a bit cheaper.
Oil: We have used Mobil 1 5-30 without issue but now use Joe Gibbs.
Tranny and rear end lube: Mobil 1
When you go to freshen the motor, I would advise to go to a full three stage dry sump. The Moroso pan can be modified to work.
Fire system: I have added the ten pound automatic type over the fuel cell as used in Nascar. They are available from the used Nascar parts suppliers at decent prices.
Thanks
12-16-2015, 10:52 AM
#16
Drifting
The expensive additional part was the Grand Am wing at 2400.
The Vette is currently getting re-bodied with the wide body ALMS type body. Woody at BEMCO has the molds.
Also, it is getting an old school carbureted 600 HP LS3.
Last edited by bosco022; 12-16-2015 at 11:36 AM.