Oil starvation at the track -C5z06
#22
One thing that I've read on these forums is how our engines can run dry in high banking situations and that scares me. I don't have 4-6k to throw at a motor so I want to protect it as much as possible. I know about filling the stock oil pan with an extra quart before track days but my concern is when I move to stickier tires. I think I need to avoid slicks unless I want to run a dry sump which again is $$. My car is dual purpose but not a daily by any stretch of the imagination.
What do you guys think of this as a safe alternative?
Batwing oilpan and at most R compound tires?
Nothing is fool proof but wanted thoughts from those who have been through multiple setups (and maybe motors too! )
What do you guys think of this as a safe alternative?
Batwing oilpan and at most R compound tires?
Nothing is fool proof but wanted thoughts from those who have been through multiple setups (and maybe motors too! )
#23
Yes. That was one of our CF SCCA racers who's name escapes me. GM was in tight with the race scene starting with the C5 in SCCA T1 racing aiding development. When the LS3 came they lasted only a few laps and blew up. That is how the C6 LS3 gransport came to be. The racers in the aftermarket did GM's development with the Avid drysump. What people have to understand is the skill level of the Championship SCCA racers. For example last year at the 2014 Laguna Seca Runoffs all the old track records were broken. Fast Forward to 2015 Daytona Runoffs and again most if not all the records fell by a lot . In my T2 class if you raced at the former class track record you started the Championship race at the back of the grid. I think the old record was beaten by 5-7 seconds. I can't remember. In other words if oil pan baffling and accusump are working for you on Dot-R tires you are nowhere near the limits of the car.
#24
I ran A6's for 5 years and added rear wing the last 2 years, saw 1.5-1.6 g's, spun rod bearings twice. I have 2 friends who autox on A6's for 4-5 years, they both spun rod bearings this year, autox not track work. If you consistently over 1.2-1.3 g's, you need a dry sump. If your on sticky tires and the car is driven hard and it doesn't happen, well
#25
Instructor
Member Since: Apr 2001
Location: Northern California
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I ran my 98 C5 LS1 for many years at Thunderhill which has a long sweeping left turn (turn 2). Everything was fine until I switched to DOT-R tires and then started having oil starvation issues. Installed an Accusump and it helped a little, but once oil temperatures got up there the problem continued. I think an oil cooler should have been the way to go in hindsight.
#26
Burning Brakes
Accusump affected by variables
Great information. I like those kinds of facts! Are you using the manual valve or the electrical setup? I understand the mechanical flows back and forth quicker?
To Bill, I don't understand what you mean by high RPM but not full throttle being better than high RPM with full throttle. How does the oil pooling in the head know any difference in throttle application? Is it not simply a matter of RPM?
To Bill, I don't understand what you mean by high RPM but not full throttle being better than high RPM with full throttle. How does the oil pooling in the head know any difference in throttle application? Is it not simply a matter of RPM?
Since I’m an ex-fluid component sales guy for the semi-conductor market, I’ve chosen to type up a list of variables affecting fluids and owners of sports cars. Maybe this will help someone. All Fluids are affected by:
- ORIFICE size and geometry of flow components: Most commonly, larger is better. Diameter of hoses, length of hoses, smoothness of inner diameter of flow components, and the shapes of the fittings restrict or help increase fluid flow. More bends slow down flow
- TEMPERATURE affects viscosity of fluids and the control components.
Heat has expanded my Accusump reservoir to the point where the piston movement inside my 3quart canister & oil dump has been delayed by up to 6 seconds. If the inner diameter tolerances of an aluminum can are not held to critical dimensional standards, I found direct heat affects the movement of the o-ringed pistons inside. The I.D. dimensions on one side of the inner can appears to be compromised. My heat source is direct sunshine through the back window. My remedy was to insulate and shade the can
- PROXIMITY of the reservoir to the engine can slightly affect how quickly the engine receives the oil. Closer could be better. Many C5 Accusump users place theirs behind the driver’s side wheel well. C5’s have more space here due to the bulbous shape of the exhaust vent of the front quarter panel. Since my C6 is narrower here and because the windshield H2O washer reservoir is located here, I decided not to use this area. Locating mine behind the driver’s cockpit allows me to witness when oil is dumped.
- VISCOSITY of oil: thicker equates slower movement
PSYCHOLOGICAL Variable: Strange is it may sound, when the reservoir’s pressure gauge can be mounted within eyesight, I have been rewarded watching pressure drops during pre-charging before engine start up and on corners during track time. In other words, I can see that it is really working. And oh by the way, I’ve heard of those that say they can watch their car’s oil dash gauge rise during pre-lubing before engine start up. As far as I can tell, my ’08’s electronic dash does not allow this.
Caution: When parked for a long time, the pressure of the reservoir can drop below 5 or 6 psi. Some oil can be discharged through the pressure relief valve. My tank is located inside my cockpit and fortunately my oil discharge has been outside under the car. I connected one end of a 3 ft long 1/8” SS braided hose to the can and the end holding the relief valve is pointed to the ground. All in all, I’ve found that keeping the canister pressurized over 10 or 12 psi has prevented all releases
Swagelok guy
#27
Drifting
that's great information on fluids and oil in particular.
Found another line around my favorite track. With aero and good tires the car pulls over 2 G laterally in a long left hander. Mid corner speed is around 90 MPH. I'm getting low oil pressure warning just after coming out of the turn. It's just over 20 psi and I have a big rev match and downshift just then. I'm chasing the track record and the #1 guy in my class. Compromising the line or backing off is not an option. I run half a quart high normally, but will try with a quart and see where we end up. No dry sump on this motor, but there will be on the next one.
Found another line around my favorite track. With aero and good tires the car pulls over 2 G laterally in a long left hander. Mid corner speed is around 90 MPH. I'm getting low oil pressure warning just after coming out of the turn. It's just over 20 psi and I have a big rev match and downshift just then. I'm chasing the track record and the #1 guy in my class. Compromising the line or backing off is not an option. I run half a quart high normally, but will try with a quart and see where we end up. No dry sump on this motor, but there will be on the next one.