troyguitar

It depends on a few things:

Are you comfortable running without a cage? I am - as long as I'm able to generally keep my distance from other cars and only run with experienced drivers, which I can do in NASA time trials. I would be less comfortable running in the more crowded HPDE classes with less experienced drivers who also pay less attention to their car setup, maintenance, and performance.

Are you willing to spend a ton of money on a track car + truck + trailer to have it sit out in your yard collecting dust for 350+ days a year? I am not.

Are you willing to drive something boring and cheap on the street for 350+ days a year to to focus on those 5-25 hours of fun driving per year? I am not.

Rexracer77

Hey, new to the forum, since I am new to Corvette ownership. My point in buying a Corvette was to have a streetable fun track capable car.

Reading all of the comments here, has anyone considered doing Chumpcar? I have been doing them for a few years, and bang for the buck can't be beat. Yes you are not going to be driving a car nearly as capable as a c5 Corvette, but I promise you, racing wheel to wheel with 50-80 other cars will more then make up for that.

Im not talking about Lemons, which is all about doing the craziest thing, but Chumpcar, which is about actual racing, in friendly environment. There is nothing like doing a 24 hour race (I did VIR 24 a couple years ago), racing through the night, watching the sun come up, and knowing you have another 6 hours of racing to go.

The greatest part about it is the value, it cost me ~2k to put my ZX2 escort on the track, and my teammate ~3k to put the 86 Iroc Camaro on the track (running a 405hp Vortec V8). Both are fun to drive for different reasons. And you get to share these costs with your team mates. On average including all entry fees/fuel/consumables/towing fuel costs/hotels/food, etc, it cost our team of 5 $350 a person for ~4 hours of track time.

If Tony Steward (yes bad time to mention) and Randy Prost can come do a weekend of Chumpcar and get out of the car smiling and saying what fun it is, no one here is "to good" to do it themselves...

troyguitar

I read things like that but I still don't understand how it's even possible.

How do you put together a car with 24 hour wheel to wheel racing legal, safe, and competitive brakes, roll cage, tires, racing seat, fire suppression system, and fuel cell on top of the cost of the car itself and a truck and trailer to tow it for anything short of $20k?

Captain Buddha

I started out with a '12 GS and one track day...got hooked, bought a '13 Z06 and tracked it every chance I had...realized that it was only a matter of time until I had an incident...and I wanted to go w2w....so, decided to buy a race car....a Radical was one of the candidates...ultimately I decided on an ASA/GTA car. LOVE IT!!

You get used to no ABS, you also left-foot brake with an ASA/GTA car, it's a hoot! Brakes are manual, mine does have power steering, extremely easy to steer. I love that there are NO nannies - you have your hands, feet, eyes, brain and butt - that is your traction control! LOL

I shudder at the thought of folks doing TT without all the safety gear, it actually blows my mind that people do it!

Here is a thread that may be of interest to you - essentially I was asking for informed opinions on the subject:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...a-asa-car.html

Here is my thread about getting one:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...ar-photos.html

And a thread about another member/buddy getting his:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...o-gta-car.html

Recent pic of the car:

JRitt@essex

This is a tough one indeed. I was in a similar situation four years ago. Here's what I did:

I ended up selling my C5 Z06 and buying a '92 Miata. I sold my my vette, all my spare wheels, etc. I bought a bone stock miata with only 69k miles on it for $1.5k from my next door neighbor (a steal). I put shocks, steering wheel, roll bar, and seat in it, and got some new wheels and tires...I'm probably about $4k into it. The thing barely uses any tire, brakes, or fuel. I don't think there are many cheaper, fun, RWD cars out there for track days. Miata's are known to be fairly bulletproof and typically run several hundred thousand miles. Spare engines are $500 each. Sticky street tires are $90 each. Brake pads are under $100 in many cases. They get 35 miles/gallon highway. They arguably have the best shifter in any car. I bought a little $200 trailer from a local autoX'r on which I can haul my wheels/tires/tools. I don't pass many people on track, and I'm fine with that. It's still very fun though. If I stuff it into a wall and am fortunate enough to walk away, I can hand them my keys and say, "keep it" without any terrible financial stress.

On the street, I think the miata is actually more fun than the vette. You don't have to worry about where to park it, if anything will happen to it, etc. It takes up half the lane, and on average grip tires you can slide it around and have fun at super low speeds without even crossing the yellow line. You can also drop the top for some open air driving, which is nice on a sunny day. You obviously aren't going to win any drag races, and people will give you sh*t about driving a 'girl car,' but who cares. Mazda sold a million of them for a reason...they're really fun!

That said, the Miata not as much fun as the Vette on track. You don't have to worry about throttle control...just turn in and stand on the gas...lol. You have time to eat a sandwich on a long straight, but it's still great fun through the turns.

To make up for my lost LS6, I bought a 2004 Gen. 1 Cadillac CTS-V. It really is a four door corvette. I got my LS6 back...and a back seat to haul family and friends to dinner. They are fairly inexpensive these days, and as we know LS engines tend to hold up well for a lot of miles.

Rexracer77

I never said purchasing a truck/trailer were part of the figures. Our team already has a trailer, and there are several trucks amongst us. I have seen guys rent a U-haul for the 2-3 races they do a year. Cheap and don't have to store it later. Heck even guys have just gotten a trip permit and driven their cars to the track.

My car:
$625 (after CoPart fees/etc)
$200 in cage material
$150 belts (forgot how much they were)
$200 Porterfield R4-E pads
$150 new rotors (good steel, nothing fancy)
$400 tires (we keep old ones for spares)
$150 used wheels off CL
$250 we had so didnt buy
$325 - new rules require fire suppression system i haven't installed yet
$100 - lighted door number panels for night racing
$35 window net
$80 - coil over springs mounted on new struts
$150 - new struts
$75 - header
$3040 to build new, we had a lot in the shop so didn't have to lay out cash.

We burn 5 gallons of fuel an hour x 24 hours = 120 x $4 gallon = $480

Entry fee depends on event but ~$1200 with 5 drivers.

This is endurance racing, so shaving 1 second a lap is less important then being consistent, keep the car together, and making good pit stop transitions from driver to driver.

Rexracer77

This is much more my budget and mentality. Yeah if you can afford to go race Corvettes more power to you. But just because you cant afford the 20-40-100k to do it, doesn't mean you can't/shouldn't have any fun in a car.

A friend who bought a Lamborghini Gallardo when they first came out sold it after a year. While it was fun, he had to be doing all sorts of illegal things to be having any fun with it. The cost of repairs also weighed heavily on him so he sold it. A week later the new owner lost a clutch and 15k out of his wallet to fix it. He said he could have almost as much fun sliding his 67 Alfa with under 200hp around at very near legal speeds.

JRitt@essex

Agreed...low budget doesn't mean you can't have fun. It's slower fun, but fun nonetheless. Many would argue that racing wheel-to-wheel in a 'slow' class is far more fun than going uber-fast in an HPDE or TT.

As stated...if you want to actually race wheel-to-wheel, Chump Car is the ticket! My product mgr. races Chump Car and has a blast. I haven't had the chance yet, but I'd like to do so.

Four years ago my first child was born, followed by my second two years later. I also bought a new house and did a full kitchen/living room remodel during that time. My days of buying 305 slicks were over at that point! (at least if I wanted to stay married)

If you need to feel speed, go race a Rotax kart. Sitting inches from the ground with nothing around you doesn't require huge MPH to feel fast.

troyguitar

Impressive, I wish I was at that point. Sadly I don't have a shop or a truck or a welder or scales or most things necessary to build a race car like that. Sounds like you need to have the tools and skills to run a "real" race car to field one of those chump cars at anything close to the advertised prices.

I feel like by the time you've bought the truck and the trailer and the shop full of tools and materials and paid all the entries and fuel and hotel expenses and done all the labor and whatnot for the safety gear and car setup that you have so much time and money sunk into the thing that you might as well be running something that's actually fast. Those background costs that you aren't figuring in to your car's cost are HUGE and absolutely dwarf the cost of the car itself.

I don't doubt that the car was cheap for you, but it would not be cheap for a normal person.

bags142

I am comfortable driving on the track without a cage as of now. But, that does not mean it's a good or bad idea.

I CAN NOT spend $15k on a truck and trailer to tow the vette. If I am towing a car, it will have a cage.





I watched the 12hr enduro at daytona while I was on vacation there! But, I want to do chumpcar/lemons 1 time. I wanna HPDE more than w2w


I agree these are hard to beat, but I CAN NOT spend $17k on another car that is track only. THEN spend $15k for a truck and trailer. It is NOT in my budget.

My budget is $13k if I sell the vette. That is for a sorted car. So if I spend $9k on it, I got $4k to sort it.


I almost bought an 04 V before I bought the vette..lol

I am just not sure I am a vert guy. I know they sell cool hardtops for the miata, but I am not sure I want one. I have lots of friends that have them, but still not sure I want one.

You are correct, about the cheapest thing to track though

And on the kart.. I have seen 6spd shifter karts at AMP. It crossed my mind... but seems a bit rough on the body after every session!

Rexracer77

While I completely understand your point I also disagree. If you are prepping a high end car, yes those costs are huge, and running a Vette, I'm sure that's what your seeing.

Two points:
1. The point of Chumpcar is to do it with a team. If you dont have 4-6 people to do it with then, yeah it doesn't make sense. (you literally cannot run a race without a minimum of 4 drivers). So all the costs you talk about are shared.
2. You don't need expensive equipment to build one of these cars. Can you use expensive equipment? Yes, but at the end of the day it won't be the deciding factor. If I literally had nothing in my garage except basic hand tools and air compressor I would need: $200-$300 welder, $100 drill press, $60 tubing notches, $300 tubing bender, $50 die grinder/cut off wheel. You can always pay someone to corner weight the car/ tire shops can do alignments to your specs, etc.

Generally the way it works is some guy has a garage/barn, another guy has a welder, another guy has a cutting torch, another guy has the truck. Get together build a car, drink some beers, bench race for hours, etc.

Yes there are guys, like Tony Stewarts Crew, that build cars in the big shops that have amazing tools, show up at the track with a huge rig...The first time out they brought 3 cars, 2 Supra's and a Camaro. The Supra's went through 4 motors between them, and neither finished. The camaro ran decent, and finished in the top 10, with Tony driving 2 stints. Everyone there had a great time.
When I raced VIR, the crew was there with 1 car, blew the motor in the first 30 minutes, spent 4 hours thrashing and fixing it, and then raced some more. Were they upset, or angry? Nope they had a great time, and were great to pit next to, very helpful/fun guys.

Is it for everyone? Nope, but the "bang for the buck" is extremely high, and you can't call it "NOT real racing" till you have tried it.

There are always teams looking for drivers, you can "hire on" (typically 500-800 to be a guest driver), and race a new and exciting track W2W.

troyguitar

On a smooth track they are easier on the body than the Corvette to me (if I had real race seats and harnesses it might be even), but on a rough track they are brutal.

They're the best thing I've ever driven by far though - if I were smart I'd still have one. Back in the early 2000's we consistently had 60-100 shifters on track at once racing at Road America for the nationals each year, it was the closest racing I've ever seen. In one lap you could go from 1st to 15th to 1st to 10th to 1st to 20th to 1st to 8th to 1st again from all of the drafting. Racing those things in the rain at Mid-Ohio is also the hardest thing I've ever done and possibly the most fun.

Rexracer77

I can respect that. Give it a try, THEN decide what you want to do. There is a reason I bought a VETTE to play with. Working around team mates schedules/priorities made it difficult to do all the racing I wanted, so I am substituting real w2w racing with some Auto-x/track days.

bags142

I am way to soft for them!


I am leaving lots of time on the track. I "chase" a faster driver every now and then or get chased, but I always tap out before them. if I am in a pack of 2+ cars I don't know, I will let off and point all by or pit for space.

That to say, I am not aggressive enough. I have 8 weekends where every instructor told me I could be more more aggressive. So I want to try chump with 4-5 buddies or rent a seat just to do it. but, I don't want the stress of always having someone on my bumper or being on someone's bumper

So I think HPDE is for me lol

el es tu

Why not try this?



Its fuel efficient and theyll never hear you coming



Seriously though - keep the vette

lefrog

HPDE and wheel-2-wheel are 2 completely different worlds and budgets. Plus with the contact in w2w, you'd better be handy with bodywork!
HPDE is not cheap in itself but your budget will explode with W2W. If you want some more excitement besides the track and the AutoX, I really recommend trying hillclimbs:

But once again, that will require a rollcage and make your car non-streetable.

Soloontario

Yes, HPDE, Time trial competition, sprint type W2W (less than 30 min) and Chump Car are all different types of racing with different pros and cons and different budgets.

HPDE is great for learning and just having low key fun. Never to be underestimated but does have the risk of car to car contact due to the varying speeds of cars on track and varying driver skills.

Time trial competition can be very intense for short periods. It is just you and the track for varying numbers of laps (depending on the rules of the organization). No excuses like " I had to save the brakes" or " I was constantly getting blocked" or " That slow guy's car has too much power so I couldn't pass him". It is much like Formula 1 qualifying and as we all know, race speeds never reach qualifying speeds. Consistency means nothing as each lap you are trying to brake later, get on the power earlier etc. Chances of car to car contact are almost zero.

W2W sprints are almost as intense BUT has the very complicating factor of all the other guys on the track. You have to learn how fast you can go off line, how to set up a pass and when to be patient. You also have to be aware that your car may not be the same all the way through the race and plan accordingly. Obviously in W2W you are juggling a lot more factors than Time trials but you may never have that one unobstructed pure lap unless you are in the lead. Jackie Stewart ( no relation to Tony) always said you qualify at 10/10ths but race at 9/10ths. (Ever hear the crew chiefs talking to drivers in Nascar or F1 saying "time to really push"? I thought they were already doing that! ). Obviously the risk of car to car contact is really high.

From talking to a number of competitors who have run both time trials and Chump Car, they will all tell you that consistency is important, that saving the car is important but all out intensity is not. You can't go all out for 6 hours and the crap can cars can't do it for 24 hours. While not having done it myself yet it sounds like fun but either a lot of hours of prep or a lot more money than suggested. You can always find a truck and borrow or rent a trailer but after looking into the budget with a group of local guys, our figures for running a car were sig higher than suggested here.

Personally I want more that HPDE, wouldn't mind doing Chump Car once or twice (but not as a habit) and can't afford W2W. Time trials are the reasonable compromise for me and getting back to the original post, Corvettes are great cars for this.

BTW, I do get to go W2W racing in the winter with our local Magnum Ice Racing series. These cars are worse that crapcans, can run on studs or "tractionised" snow tires, don't need fire suppression or even cages. My partner and I paid $500 for our winning 1990 Corolla and have had 6 seasons out of the car. Budget for snow tires is the biggest item per year. Up to 24 cars on a 0.6 mile track, standing starts and up to 4 wide in some corners. Top speed according to our SOLO lap timer is 54 MPH (88 kph) and the studded cars are faster. No, not fast in the least but lots of fun otherwise and each lap the track changes so it is all SOTP driving.Yes, there is LOTs of contact but needs some race strategy just the same.

Rexracer77

Funny, thats exactly how one of my teammates is, he is the youngest of us. He loves going around the track, he loves to improve his times and build speed. He hates having people near him. But that's the great thing about an enduro, he can spend his 2 hours out there working on his progress, he can let people buy on the straights, he can pass people when he can, and in the end it doesn't matter. This isn't a sprint race where loosing 1-2 seconds a lap, or not getting that big pass is important. We also stagger the more aggressive drivers followed by a less aggressive driver, to give the car a break. It works out well, and we have never not finished a race due to wearing the car out or mechanical failure (on the ZX2)
Are there aggressive drivers? Yes. Are there teams that are pushing 100% of the time. Yes. But I would say 90-95% of the people are out there to do their best, get the car across the line.

So again, try it out, and see what you think. I bet you will find it to be a very enjoyable experience.

wtb-z

To the OP's question, I strongly agree with this statement. My main complaint about the C5 is that, IMO, almost everything seems to have enough thermal capacity for a few laps and that is it. The later model C6s (lots more $$$) seem like they were built to run on the track without extra hardware, although various time-bomb motors introduced at the same time are another issue.

bags142

I wanna give you a sarcastic reply, but I am laughing to hard to think of one



I have seen your threads and your cage build... your man parts are much bigger than mine!! lol



I like low key fun! But, I know it has it's risks!


I hope to find out in a couple years...along with 1 lap hahahah.. I need to win the lotto


I have found that my oil temps are the only thing that I have issues with. And that's here in the south (Atlanta). I have not had any real issues in june, july, or aug.

Some of that may be because I am REAL SLOW LOL