Autocrossing & Roadracing Suspension Setup for Track Corvettes, Camber/Caster Adjustments, R-Compound Tires, Race Slicks, Tips on Driving Technique, Events, Results
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Competition Adjustment

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-27-2014, 03:21 PM
  #1  
Painrace
Le Mans Master
Support Corvetteforum!
Thread Starter
 
Painrace's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 8,119
Received 63 Likes on 48 Posts

Default Competition Adjustment

Corvettes and Cadillac both get a competition adjustment. Both get more weight and less throttle body opening killing their chances of a race win! It has been happening for the 55 years I have been involved and I still feel it is unfair. Most know stock BMWs, etc. in stock form cannot come close to beating a Corvette in stock form. Most racing associations just can't stand to see American continue to win. Hey, maybe they win because the drivers, crews and teams are better! Sad to see all that effort be pissed away by rule changes in mid season.

Jim
Old 07-27-2014, 04:04 PM
  #2  
CHJ In Virginia
Safety Car
 
CHJ In Virginia's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2000
Location: Shenandoah Valley Virginia
Posts: 4,549
Likes: 0
Received 27 Likes on 24 Posts

Default

It looks like the PC - Bulls--- is further invading racing. Every body must have a chance of wnniing - handicap the brightest, better equipped, fastest to bring them down to the lowest common denominator. I long for the days when the rules were loosly defined and it was "run what ya brung" and the fastest gets the trophy !
Old 07-27-2014, 04:45 PM
  #3  
ErnieN85
Safety Car
 
ErnieN85's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2002
Location: Montoursville Pa
Posts: 3,617
Received 264 Likes on 221 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Painrace
Corvettes and Cadillac both get a competition adjustment. Both get more weight and less throttle body opening killing their chances of a race win! It has been happening for the 55 years I have been involved and I still feel it is unfair. Most know stock BMWs, etc. in stock form cannot come close to beating a Corvette in stock form. Most racing associations just can't stand to see American continue to win. Hey, maybe they win because the drivers, crews and teams are better! Sad to see all that effort be pissed away by rule changes in mid season.

Jim
if ya can't beat em give them a bigger handicap that will do it
can't run stock engine but Dodge can
Old 07-27-2014, 10:06 PM
  #4  
Bill Dearborn
Tech Contributor
 
Bill Dearborn's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,078
Received 8,919 Likes on 5,328 Posts

Default

The performance inbalance problem is hard to solve. When the 85/86/87 C4 won all of the Show Room Stock races for 3 years in a row the other manufacturers threatened to leave the series. The solution they kicked Corvette out and the Corvette Challenge was developed by John Powell. When the C5R first entered ALMS competition it didn't do all that well but after a few years they were winning all the GT1 Championships and the number of competitors dropped to 0.

Bill
Old 07-28-2014, 06:22 AM
  #5  
rfn026
Safety Car
 
rfn026's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2004
Location: Naples FL
Posts: 4,469
Received 272 Likes on 214 Posts

Default

The Balance of Performance is really difficult. Actually IMSA/TUDOR has got it pretty close. I'm a little surprised they felt they needed to tweak things once again.

Keep in mind that this is the entertainment business. Every car on the track has to have an equal chance of winning. That's just the way it works.

Richard Newton
Historic Racing Images
Old 07-28-2014, 08:42 AM
  #6  
el es tu
Safety Car
 
el es tu's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2011
Location: va
Posts: 3,580
Received 45 Likes on 40 Posts

Default

so you mean mazdas and mustangs arent as quick as corvettes?
Old 07-28-2014, 09:30 AM
  #7  
JDIllon
Melting Slicks
 
JDIllon's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Port St. Lucie Fl.
Posts: 2,707
Received 295 Likes on 76 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by rfn026
The Balance of Performance is really difficult. Actually IMSA/TUDOR has got it pretty close. I'm a little surprised they felt they needed to tweak things once again.

Keep in mind that this is the entertainment business. Every car on the track has to have an equal chance of winning. That's just the way it works.

Richard Newton
Historic Racing Images
I somewhat agree!! But at some point they are compensating for driver capabilities!!! And in the case of Cadillac, I think they have reached that point. The idea is to make the cars equal so that it becomes a drivers race?? Not penalize the team because they have a better race plan or better drivers or a better crew. Just my .02 JD
Old 07-28-2014, 09:46 AM
  #8  
63Corvette
Le Mans Master
 
63Corvette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2001
Location: Granbury Texas
Posts: 9,556
Received 283 Likes on 199 Posts

Default

May I suggest VINTAGE RACING, where the appreciation of the vehicle may actually cover the cost of the racing
Old 07-28-2014, 04:41 PM
  #9  
el es tu
Safety Car
 
el es tu's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2011
Location: va
Posts: 3,580
Received 45 Likes on 40 Posts

Default

If they want to make it a drivers race, then driver weight shouldn't be factored for the cars total weight. An overweight person who's out of shape should be at a disadvantage when going against someone who works out, diets, and trains. This is supposed to be a sport...
Old 07-28-2014, 06:17 PM
  #10  
0Anthony @ LGMotorsports
Former Vendor
 
Anthony @ LGMotorsports's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2005
Location: Lewisville TX
Posts: 16,898
Received 406 Likes on 300 Posts
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13


Default

Originally Posted by Painrace
Corvettes and Cadillac both get a competition adjustment. Both get more weight and less throttle body opening killing their chances of a race win! It has been happening for the 55 years I have been involved and I still feel it is unfair. Most know stock BMWs, etc. in stock form cannot come close to beating a Corvette in stock form. Most racing associations just can't stand to see American continue to win. Hey, maybe they win because the drivers, crews and teams are better! Sad to see all that effort be pissed away by rule changes in mid season.

Jim

You know this.....there is more politics in racing than D.C. Well maybe not that much, but not far off.
Old 07-29-2014, 12:01 PM
  #11  
Solofast
Melting Slicks
 
Solofast's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: Indy IN
Posts: 3,003
Received 85 Likes on 71 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Anthony @ LGMotorsports
You know this.....there is more politics in racing than D.C. Well maybe not that much, but not far off.
So very true...

Problem is after a while it becomes "entertainment" and to me there is really no reason to watch. I want to see the best team with the best car win.

"Handicapped" racing today is a bit like going to a swimming race where the fastest swimmer has to wear a pair of street shoes and the slow guy gets to wear swim fins. We all know who the fastest one is, but they have to make a "race" out if it so they can have a close "finish" for the folks watching on TV who aren't really interested in the sport.

Racing rules should be the same for everybody. With the present rules it isn't racing, it's just "entertainment" and that's just something that doesn't interest me anymore.

The WWF has a big following and makes a lot of money too, and the results are pretty much just as scripted as racing is today. Sorry if I come off a bit cynical, but giving out different weights and restrictor plate sizes to "equalize" the competition isn't real racing, at least not IMHO.
Old 07-29-2014, 12:43 PM
  #12  
el es tu
Safety Car
 
el es tu's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2011
Location: va
Posts: 3,580
Received 45 Likes on 40 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Anthony @ LGMotorsports
You know this.....there is more politics in racing than D.C. Well maybe not that much, but not far off.
hows the battle against chevy/michelin going?
Old 07-29-2014, 01:21 PM
  #13  
troyguitar
Drifting
 
troyguitar's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Lawrenceburg KY
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Racing without rules to equalize cars is pointless. Everyone would just run the fastest car and it becomes a spec series.

Run what you brung type rules are even worse, it becomes a spending war (both $ and time) that results in a few interesting cars, but boring races.
Old 07-29-2014, 01:32 PM
  #14  
Bill32
Melting Slicks
 
Bill32's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2010
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 2,077
Likes: 0
Received 69 Likes on 59 Posts
Default

Equalizing the cars is so Obama.

And so are today's race fans.
Old 07-29-2014, 01:36 PM
  #15  
Bill32
Melting Slicks
 
Bill32's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2010
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 2,077
Likes: 0
Received 69 Likes on 59 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Solofast
So very true...

Problem is after a while it becomes "entertainment" and to me there is really no reason to watch. I want to see the best team with the best car win.

"Handicapped" racing today is a bit like going to a swimming race where the fastest swimmer has to wear a pair of street shoes and the slow guy gets to wear swim fins. We all know who the fastest one is, but they have to make a "race" out if it so they can have a close "finish" for the folks watching on TV who aren't really interested in the sport.

Racing rules should be the same for everybody. With the present rules it isn't racing, it's just "entertainment" and that's just something that doesn't interest me anymore.

The WWF has a big following and makes a lot of money too, and the results are pretty much just as scripted as racing is today. Sorry if I come off a bit cynical, but giving out different weights and restrictor plate sizes to "equalize" the competition isn't real racing, at least not IMHO.
Good post.

Even one of Nascar's darlings (#14) said Nascar was WWF on his radio show.
Of course the wheels yanked him into the trailer and wacked his pee-pee. Then reminded him of the millions he was pocketing.
Old 07-29-2014, 06:23 PM
  #16  
SouthernSon
Race Director
Support Corvetteforum!
 
SouthernSon's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Deal's Gap 2004 NCM Motorsports track supporter
Posts: 13,913
Received 1,101 Likes on 715 Posts

Default

The powers that be may have an interest in the entertainment business. I suggest they go to Hollywood. I had rather see the vehicles on the ragged edge of performance capabilities. But, as in all things contemporary, it would appear that even racing is falling victim to 'dumbing down'. Back off achievement until everyone has a shot. What a way to progress.
Old 07-29-2014, 06:29 PM
  #17  
JDIllon
Melting Slicks
 
JDIllon's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Port St. Lucie Fl.
Posts: 2,707
Received 295 Likes on 76 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by troyguitar
Racing without rules to equalize cars is pointless. Everyone would just run the fastest car and it becomes a spec series.

Run what you brung type rules are even worse, it becomes a spending war (both $ and time) that results in a few interesting cars, but boring races.
All racing is cubic $$. He who has the most money usually wins!!! Just a fact of life. Try buying a "stock" spec Miata and go racing and see how you do. Just my .02 JD

Get notified of new replies

To Competition Adjustment

Old 07-29-2014, 08:19 PM
  #18  
T4Eater
Intermediate
 
T4Eater's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

lol at miata spec racing. Shaving off threads of bolts to be lighter. Those guys are nutcases.
Old 07-30-2014, 02:32 AM
  #19  
T4Eater
Intermediate
 
T4Eater's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2013
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

What organization is doing this?
Old 07-30-2014, 07:03 AM
  #20  
parkerracing
Safety Car
 
parkerracing's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Belmar NJ
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn
The performance inbalance problem is hard to solve. When the 85/86/87 C4 won all of the Show Room Stock races for 3 years in a row the other manufacturers threatened to leave the series. The solution they kicked Corvette out and the Corvette Challenge was developed by John Powell. When the C5R first entered ALMS competition it didn't do all that well but after a few years they were winning all the GT1 Championships and the number of competitors dropped to 0.

Bill
Without "competition adjustments" the "competition" goes home and the series goes away. Remember Can-Am? Even F1 changes the rule$ once a team establishes dominance. It's always been a part of racing (at least the series that have longevity) /:\


Quick Reply: Competition Adjustment



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:33 AM.