Wheel alignment for DD/Track car
07-23-2014, 04:02 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Wheel alignment for DD/Track car
First, I understand there is no good "dual use" setting for street and track. Given that, I have and '03 Coupe that I HPDE ~8 times a year.
The car has first generation Pfadt coilovers, Z06 sway bars (w/ poly bushings). Tires are brand new Hankook Ventus Rs3's.
I found the Pfadt Alignment sheet. I am considering using the "Performance Street - Track use with Street Tires" section.
Anyone think I should be setting it to something else? I'm an alignment noob. All I know is that more neg. camber will help me turn in more easily. I have heard that more rear toe-in will stop the back end of the car from the slight trammeling that happens on the long, off-camber, slightly turning, back straight at PIR.
All opinions welcome.
The car has first generation Pfadt coilovers, Z06 sway bars (w/ poly bushings). Tires are brand new Hankook Ventus Rs3's.
I found the Pfadt Alignment sheet. I am considering using the "Performance Street - Track use with Street Tires" section.
Anyone think I should be setting it to something else? I'm an alignment noob. All I know is that more neg. camber will help me turn in more easily. I have heard that more rear toe-in will stop the back end of the car from the slight trammeling that happens on the long, off-camber, slightly turning, back straight at PIR.
All opinions welcome.
07-23-2014, 04:19 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: orlando florida
Posts: 3,092
Received 114 Likes
on
98 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15
You might see some inside tire wear over time if you daily drive. Actually more negative toe in the front will have better turn in on turns. Negative camber allows more tire footprint to be applied when turning.
07-23-2014, 04:29 PM
#3
Tech Contributor
First, I understand there is no good "dual use" setting for street and track. Given that, I have and '03 Coupe that I HPDE ~8 times a year.
The car has first generation Pfadt coilovers, Z06 sway bars (w/ poly bushings). Tires are brand new Hankook Ventus Rs3's.
I found the Pfadt Alignment sheet. I am considering using the "Performance Street - Track use with Street Tires" section.
Anyone think I should be setting it to something else? I'm an alignment noob. All I know is that more neg. camber will help me turn in more easily. I have heard that more rear toe-in will stop the back end of the car from the slight trammeling that happens on the long, off-camber, slightly turning, back straight at PIR.
All opinions welcome.
The car has first generation Pfadt coilovers, Z06 sway bars (w/ poly bushings). Tires are brand new Hankook Ventus Rs3's.
I found the Pfadt Alignment sheet. I am considering using the "Performance Street - Track use with Street Tires" section.
Anyone think I should be setting it to something else? I'm an alignment noob. All I know is that more neg. camber will help me turn in more easily. I have heard that more rear toe-in will stop the back end of the car from the slight trammeling that happens on the long, off-camber, slightly turning, back straight at PIR.
All opinions welcome.
For your usage I'd look at around -1.6* Front Camber, -1.1* rear camber. 0 Total Toe front, ~1/16" Total Toe in for the rear.
That will be a nice compromise with street tires. If you go to an R compound tire at the track, then you'll need more negative camber or you'll chew the outside edges off of them.
07-23-2014, 06:00 PM
#4
I ran though a set of 285/18 RS3s on my Z06 that were both street tires and track tires. -2* front camber, -1* rear camber ended up with reasonably even wear. The rear scrubbed the outside of the tire a bit. The RS3 is pretty soft and seems to need a lot of camber to wear evenly.
07-23-2014, 07:02 PM
#6
Drifting
Actually, more negative camber (to a point) maintains grip during cornering. Toe out in the front helps with turn in. Toe out in the rear will lead to significant oversteer, so you want a touch of toe in.
For your usage I'd look at around -1.6* Front Camber, -1.1* rear camber. 0 Total Toe front, ~1/16" Total Toe in for the rear.
That will be a nice compromise with street tires. If you go to an R compound tire at the track, then you'll need more negative camber or you'll chew the outside edges off of them.
For your usage I'd look at around -1.6* Front Camber, -1.1* rear camber. 0 Total Toe front, ~1/16" Total Toe in for the rear.
That will be a nice compromise with street tires. If you go to an R compound tire at the track, then you'll need more negative camber or you'll chew the outside edges off of them.
Dog
07-23-2014, 08:38 PM
#7
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,078
Received 8,919 Likes
on
5,328 Posts
First, I understand there is no good "dual use" setting for street and track. Given that, I have and '03 Coupe that I HPDE ~8 times a year.
The car has first generation Pfadt coilovers, Z06 sway bars (w/ poly bushings). Tires are brand new Hankook Ventus Rs3's.
I found the Pfadt Alignment sheet. I am considering using the "Performance Street - Track use with Street Tires" section.
Anyone think I should be setting it to something else? I'm an alignment noob. All I know is that more neg. camber will help me turn in more easily. I have heard that more rear toe-in will stop the back end of the car from the slight trammeling that happens on the long, off-camber, slightly turning, back straight at PIR.
All opinions welcome.
The car has first generation Pfadt coilovers, Z06 sway bars (w/ poly bushings). Tires are brand new Hankook Ventus Rs3's.
I found the Pfadt Alignment sheet. I am considering using the "Performance Street - Track use with Street Tires" section.
Anyone think I should be setting it to something else? I'm an alignment noob. All I know is that more neg. camber will help me turn in more easily. I have heard that more rear toe-in will stop the back end of the car from the slight trammeling that happens on the long, off-camber, slightly turning, back straight at PIR.
All opinions welcome.
Bill
07-23-2014, 10:24 PM
#8
If you have to travel >100 miles or so for an event and don't have means to bring extra wheels, is driving there on an aggressive alignment with so much camber okay or will it ruin tires too quickly?
07-24-2014, 12:11 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
07-24-2014, 12:20 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Actually, more negative camber (to a point) maintains grip during cornering. Toe out in the front helps with turn in. Toe out in the rear will lead to significant oversteer, so you want a touch of toe in.
For your usage I'd look at around -1.6* Front Camber, -1.1* rear camber. 0 Total Toe front, ~1/16" Total Toe in for the rear.
That will be a nice compromise with street tires. If you go to an R compound tire at the track, then you'll need more negative camber or you'll chew the outside edges off of them.
For your usage I'd look at around -1.6* Front Camber, -1.1* rear camber. 0 Total Toe front, ~1/16" Total Toe in for the rear.
That will be a nice compromise with street tires. If you go to an R compound tire at the track, then you'll need more negative camber or you'll chew the outside edges off of them.
I ran though a set of 285/18 RS3s on my Z06 that were both street tires and track tires. -2* front camber, -1* rear camber ended up with reasonably even wear. The rear scrubbed the outside of the tire a bit. The RS3 is pretty soft and seems to need a lot of camber to wear evenly.
After trying several setups, including many changes from street to track and back which was a total pain in the butt, I totally agree with 96GS#007's advice. Those numbers will provide decent wear on the street with decent performance on the track. That's about as good a compromise setting as possible.
Dog
Dog
07-24-2014, 01:32 PM
#12
I ran though a set of 285/18 RS3s on my Z06 that were both street tires and track tires. -2* front camber, -1* rear camber ended up with reasonably even wear. The rear scrubbed the outside of the tire a bit. The RS3 is pretty soft and seems to need a lot of camber to wear evenly.
07-24-2014, 01:34 PM
#13
Former Vendor
Member Since: Aug 2005
Location: Lewisville TX
Posts: 16,898
Received 406 Likes
on
300 Posts
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
Actually, more negative camber (to a point) maintains grip during cornering. Toe out in the front helps with turn in. Toe out in the rear will lead to significant oversteer, so you want a touch of toe in.
For your usage I'd look at around -1.6* Front Camber, -1.1* rear camber. 0 Total Toe front, ~1/16" Total Toe in for the rear.
That will be a nice compromise with street tires. If you go to an R compound tire at the track, then you'll need more negative camber or you'll chew the outside edges off of them.
For your usage I'd look at around -1.6* Front Camber, -1.1* rear camber. 0 Total Toe front, ~1/16" Total Toe in for the rear.
That will be a nice compromise with street tires. If you go to an R compound tire at the track, then you'll need more negative camber or you'll chew the outside edges off of them.
I ran though a set of 285/18 RS3s on my Z06 that were both street tires and track tires. -2* front camber, -1* rear camber ended up with reasonably even wear. The rear scrubbed the outside of the tire a bit. The RS3 is pretty soft and seems to need a lot of camber to wear evenly.
Now as they said above, camber can be more easily locked in to a point and not effect tire wear by a huge amount, especially if you are street driving and track driving on the same set of tires. Point being they are not going to last 50k miles anyway.
One cool tip on the C5/6 cars. Bring a 13mm and a 7/8" wrench with you (if I remember right) and you can make simple toe changes at the track as long as you keep track of how you move it. You will notice on the toe links there is a hex portion of the bar. One flat (not turn), but one flat change will result in a 1/16" toe change. So if you want to do some simple changes your self, just document what you do...you can do some adjustments at the track.
07-24-2014, 03:34 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
For Street use...100% agree with that statement. Toe destroys tires in a heartbeat but can also make or break the feel of a car on track.
I would agree with that statement as a good starting point. Keep an eye on your tires and see what your car, your driving style, and the tracks you are on like. Each track can vary a bit so there is not one be all end all setting to use, but there are some good starting points.
Again...good point..not only does the track vary with what it wants for alignment, so do tires.
Now as they said above, camber can be more easily locked in to a point and not effect tire wear by a huge amount, especially if you are street driving and track driving on the same set of tires. Point being they are not going to last 50k miles anyway.
One cool tip on the C5/6 cars. Bring a 13mm and a 7/8" wrench with you (if I remember right) and you can make simple toe changes at the track as long as you keep track of how you move it. You will notice on the toe links there is a hex portion of the bar. One flat (not turn), but one flat change will result in a 1/16" toe change. So if you want to do some simple changes your self, just document what you do...you can do some adjustments at the track.
I would agree with that statement as a good starting point. Keep an eye on your tires and see what your car, your driving style, and the tracks you are on like. Each track can vary a bit so there is not one be all end all setting to use, but there are some good starting points.
Again...good point..not only does the track vary with what it wants for alignment, so do tires.
Now as they said above, camber can be more easily locked in to a point and not effect tire wear by a huge amount, especially if you are street driving and track driving on the same set of tires. Point being they are not going to last 50k miles anyway.
One cool tip on the C5/6 cars. Bring a 13mm and a 7/8" wrench with you (if I remember right) and you can make simple toe changes at the track as long as you keep track of how you move it. You will notice on the toe links there is a hex portion of the bar. One flat (not turn), but one flat change will result in a 1/16" toe change. So if you want to do some simple changes your self, just document what you do...you can do some adjustments at the track.
07-24-2014, 04:25 PM
#15
What kind of mileage / how many track days did you get with this alignment? I'm going to RS-3/RE-11 or something comparable and I would like a more aggressive alignment, but not at the expense of considerable tire wear. This is primarily a daily driver with a little fun at the track for me - I have other cars for racing / TT.
07-24-2014, 06:37 PM
#16
Thanks.
07-28-2014, 10:55 PM
#17
Drifting
I went with a Camber kit from LG, I just move 4 washers per wheel before track day and then move them back after the track day when I swap my street tires back on. Then as Anthony mentioned you can just adjust the toe by turning them a couple of flats, once you have it set.
07-29-2014, 02:00 AM
#18
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I went with a Camber kit from LG, I just move 4 washers per wheel before track day and then move them back after the track day when I swap my street tires back on. Then as Anthony mentioned you can just adjust the toe by turning them a couple of flats, once you have it set.
07-29-2014, 02:52 AM
#19
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Posts: 7,251
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
14 Posts
Actually, more negative camber (to a point) maintains grip during cornering. Toe out in the front helps with turn in. Toe out in the rear will lead to significant oversteer, so you want a touch of toe in.
For your usage I'd look at around -1.6* Front Camber, -1.1* rear camber. 0 Total Toe front, ~1/16" Total Toe in for the rear.
That will be a nice compromise with street tires. If you go to an R compound tire at the track, then you'll need more negative camber or you'll chew the outside edges off of them.
For your usage I'd look at around -1.6* Front Camber, -1.1* rear camber. 0 Total Toe front, ~1/16" Total Toe in for the rear.
That will be a nice compromise with street tires. If you go to an R compound tire at the track, then you'll need more negative camber or you'll chew the outside edges off of them.
excellent setup!
07-29-2014, 06:36 AM
#20
Drifting
I went with a Camber kit from LG, I just move 4 washers per wheel before track day and then move them back after the track day when I swap my street tires back on. Then as Anthony mentioned you can just adjust the toe by turning them a couple of flats, once you have it set.
Thank you