SouthernSon

I and several friends have been instructing HPDE's for quite awhile. I seem to notice some waning in attendance consistency the last couple of years. Is anyone here experiencing burnout? Is the economy to blame? Are new instructors covering the attrition? Is it as much fun for the instructors? I have seen some events hurting for instructors.

I hope this is a misperception on my part because momentum is a fleeting thing. Once things go one way it takes a while to come back.

NVR2L8

Arte - I agree with most everything you said. Although the Corvette instructor group is aging (me included), some of the other groups that I instruct with are a younger demographic. I think part or the reason is the economy for both drivers and instructors. I also think that there needs to be more instructor schools available to encourage younger guys / gals to get started.

I have had a few uncomfortable experiences in the last couple of years, a couple of events that I was in car for eight hours in a row with only car swaps. It was brutal.

After some of the tragic incidents in recent years, I find myself much more serious about scrutinizing the student and the car that I am getting into. Also, I look much more closely at track conditions, run group sizes and safety services.

I still love instructing, even more so with brand new students.

Bill32

Personally , after 18 years, I'm sick of instructing novices.

This year I'm only going out with advanced drivers (even staying away from the intermediates).

I have a much better time working with race drivers on private test days, though a lot of that is car setup.

We're (SCCA) also light on instructors but that's because attendance is up.

JeremyGSU

My friend and I are both 33 and have been instructing the last 4-5 years or so. We are both giving it up mostly for the reasons below.

1) We feel that the "fun" of the events are gone. It's more like work. Our friends that track with us enjoy the day as we spend it all day in the car. I come back and I'm exhausted and they are energized ready to go out. When instructing the day flies by. I go from the students car, to mine, to a brief 20-25 min break and then repeat. All day long and if you get a student you don't like it makes the day even worse. Also, if there is any wrenching that must be done then you have little time to do it. It just wears on me and I don't enjoy the events as much as I used to. I end up driving 15 min sessions because I want to hurry up and get in the paddock so I can sit and relax for a few minutes before having to go out with the student again, especially because every student always wants to drive the full 30 minutes. Sometimes I even skip sessions.

2) Both of us have been in accidents and his wife nor my girl friend want us instructing anymore. A $20,000 medical bill doesn't offset a free track day. If you instruct long enough you're going to have an incident of some kind that will shake you up. Instructors will argue they are in control but it's an illusion IMO. Unfortunately, there is only so much control you have with a mic and with the increasing power and speeds of newer cars that people start out with it makes me uneasy. Another instructor I know had to have back surgery when his student lost control and hit the wall. I just read another article where an instructor was killed recently. After enough incidents I started asking myself is this really worth it to save a few bucks?

SouthernSon

I think you pretty well nailed it, Jeremy. I don't think I can add much more to that. Maybe the track day promoters can work some things so that the fun comes back. As we all know, as go the instructors, so goes the new blood. Perhaps the tracks themselves will find a way to lower prices for the promoters in order to allow fewer student to instructor ratios to recoup the cost for the promoters. I would think it would be better for the tracks to rent every weekend at a lower price than to rent only a few times through the year at higher prices.

mdaniel

Road racing is extremely expensive. I can go drag racing for $100. Road racing is closer to $1,000 by the time I factor in wear on the brakes/tires/hotel/diesel fuel in the tow rig/event registration/etc.

I agree that it's critical to take racing seriously. That means arriving early so you can get a good night's rest the night before, checking tire pressure, brake pads/rotors between sessions, not running 10/10ths, etc. There is a great deal we can do to minimize the risks. Starting with the attitude that you're there to have fun and be safe is where it's at.

Dan H.

I'm a guy just getting started. Its interesting to hear the instructors side of the events.

sperkins

I stopped instructing 2 years ago after a couple of close calls.
Car prep was one of the biggest reasons. A large portion of the cars I rode in were held together with duct tape and zip ties. If I don't know the car personally or if I can't "nut & bolt" it myself, I'm not gettng in it.

troyguitar

My oddball view is that I don't think instructors or beginners have any place in sports car events. Beginners should be in karts, quarter midgets, or something like that - not fast street cars. Street cars tend to offer almost no feedback from the track and have terrible response. You should learn in something that is easier and that has no electronic aids. A street car is worse than useless for a beginner, it is dangerous. I'm not surprised that it's hard to find instructors willing to share that risk.

yakisoba

I disagree. In fact, a street car on normal tires offers incredible feedback compared to a racecar on slicks IF (and it's a big if) you are new to the sport. Sure starting in karts is better. Sure, if we could stick everyone in a Miata for theor first two years, it would be better. Lastly, novices have one thing going for them: Generally, at the events where we go, the novices are in their own cars. They drive them every day. They hear stuff and see stuff and don't know they are perceiving it, until you let them in on what to look for. Then it's like a light dawning.

To the OP: Instructing is a weird thing. It's customer service, mostly, but bound up with safety and heat tolerance and the ability to not be motion sick. It's the ability to not only drive, but to impart that to others. Not for everyone, by a long shot. May not be for me in a few years. Most of my friends that are further along the path are either not instructing novices anymore, or are just not instructing at all. All the pros I've done clinics with will either 1) Drive your car 2) Drive their own car and take you along. They will not get in the right seat. Perhaps there's something to that.

rithsleeper

nasa se is always full of instructors if you wait more than a few weeks to sign up after the last event. Now I race with scca and ill tell you im not happy with them. First, I called main office asking how I could get cleared to instruct with them also, I got a number of the head instructor and called, messages full, texted and tried several times different days no luck. If they are hurting for instructors why arent they making their policy specific and public like nasa. I knew the requirements and got them.

Other reason im not happy is scca has pdx. Its one day. As a raw beginner you need a full weekend. They also frequently cut time short. When I first started I really had blue ***** several sessions because they would schedule it for 20 min. Cut off the warm up and cool down and you are under 15 min sessions.

Lastly their dues are rediculous! $45 for nasa, or $85 for scca? Common. And when you break it down the race cost is rediculous also.

Then the whole atmosphere at scca is aweful im an instructor for nasa and frequent both club events and I still constantly think im going to get in trouble or yelled at. Logic escapes scca (good people, annoying people in charge). I almost got disqualified because I didnt have a tube to fit my gas test port. In IT7!!!!!! What? Who the **** would try running like alcohol gas to cheat in a regional scca event. And there were 3 cars total in the class! Some official always tells me something is wrong with my log books cause they are so old. They always have some stupid advice to give that ive heard a million times in every tech inspection. They constantly hassle me for the paint scheme on my car. Such a bunch of bull.... ok done with my rant.

Bill32

Self tech events?

Nothing with duct tape or zip ties gets a tech sticker in my tech line.

I do tech and then instruct, another reason why I'm backing off.

Bill32

I really and I mean REALLY don't care.

Nothing but smiles at our SCCA events.

Go play with your fan.

Bill32

Yea, me too.
Very strange perspective there.

BierGut

Doesn't sound like you should instruct. Everything you talked about in your first paragraph was about you and nothing about the student. Instructors should not approach the day thinking only about themselves. At least you say you are willing to skip a session rather than blow off a student's session. (Although your day would be done if you pulled that which is a good motivator not to blow off students) If you're not having fun anymore why do it? Just go back to running track days.

Your second paragraph only reinforces my belief about your first paragraph... if you are only instructing to save a few bucks - you don't belong instructing. Same goes for guys who do it for ego or any other reason except to give back and pass on knowledge. Sorry -- it all breaks down from there.

I've been doing this a long time and have seen a wave of bad attitude creep into DE. Maybe back when everyone registered for the event had to work at flag stations for 3 hours per day the instructors realized just how good they had it.

Regarding people getting hurt... crap can happen, but in 25 years it has almost always, in my experience, been the guys who think they are Mario teaching their protege' how to be "fast" where the trouble starts. This is not to say that the odd issue such as part failure doesn't happen, but it's more uncommon.

To the OP: I believe it's the economy plus a huge increase in different organizations that now run DE events. For a decade I only seemed to instruct for a couple of the car clubs and now there must be at least 10 organizations I work with including a couple of race tracks that runs programs themselves. There are a lot of choices out there.

Corvee

Your post may be a bit off topic but I have a similar assessment of SCCA Texas Region. I tried a couple at different times to obtain information on their local events by emailing and phoning the group leader or registrar and was totally ignored. Was told by different participants that *** hats with huge egos are difficult to tolerate. I stick with NASA and happy.

Back on topic - some organizations including Chin Motorsports and NASA DE only assign one student - much easier. To agree with the consensus - you have to enjoy teaching - long weekend when you crap breaks on Saturday morning and you have to right seat for two days but worth it when you see their grin after a good session when they get it.

Low turnout may be a function of your local economy. Most events are full here and tracks holding something every weekend.

m3bs

After instructing for 16 years, I'm close to giving it up for most of the reasons already discussed. I've probably had close to 200 students over the years, and am happy to say that probably 197 of them were willing to listen, willing to learn, and were gratifying to instruct. Times are changing, however. I'm not a twenty-something any more, and I'm finding that events take a greater physical toll on me than they used to. Two students is definitely a no-go for me now. It is also a concern to me that so many first-timers are showing up with 500-700 HP cars. Things can happen quickly out there, and the idea that the instructor is always in control can only be taken so far. All it takes is one nervous twitch of the loud pedal for things to go awry, as a recent right seat stint in a tweaked carbon edition Z06 demonstrated. Stability control took over, and was much appreciated at that moment.

Bill32

Good post, the student ratio is right, the 197 probably left the event very happy. Yea, these extremely fast cars are changing things.

Painrace

I raced most of my life and loved it. Instructing is a way for me to give back to the sport that gave me so much. However, at 70 years old and on drugs for prostate cancer it is getting much more difficult for me to do an adequate job. I think it is time for me to hang it up or just instruct new or green students.

I was at VIR with NCM and will be at Track Attack in two weeks and then all four days at the new NCM track.

Jim

NVR2L8

Trust me, Jim, you've given back plenty ... and you have done it for all the right reasons.

TB