Formula One, Just Not As Attractive As 2013
06-03-2014, 12:48 PM
#42
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Williams Formula One co-founder says series is too expensive, has taken wrong turn
Patrick Head wants less focus on hybrid technology, more on drivers and entertainment
By: GMM on June 2, 2014
Formula One's new turbo era is "far too expensive,” according to Williams co-founder and former technical boss Patrick Head. The 67-year-old Briton also told the BBC that he thinks the sport has taken a wrong turn in focusing too much on road-relevant hybrid technology.
"I think it should be more about the drivers and more about entertainment on the track," said Head. "The road-car people are doing a perfectly good job on hybrid anyway at the moment. I'm not sure that it needs Formula One to demonstrate hybrid technology."
Head thinks the main problem is the cost of the engines to the teams.
"You could produce 800 hp for [$2.7 million] a team each year. I think the teams are having to pay about 10 times that amount," said Head. "It's a very expensive way of powering Formula One cars. I think the engines are fascinating pieces of kit, but I think they are far too expensive for what they are supposed to be doing."
With a similar view is former F1 team boss Flavio Briatore, who said F1 began to turn the wrong corner due to the disproportionate influence of engineers.
"Is it realistic to design 70 different wings in one season?" he is quoted by Italy's La Stampa. "Just so these engineers can come to orgasm? Unfortunately, with the abolition of [Formula One Teams Association], a free hand was given to people with no sense of proportion."
Patrick Head wants less focus on hybrid technology, more on drivers and entertainment
By: GMM on June 2, 2014
Formula One's new turbo era is "far too expensive,” according to Williams co-founder and former technical boss Patrick Head. The 67-year-old Briton also told the BBC that he thinks the sport has taken a wrong turn in focusing too much on road-relevant hybrid technology.
"I think it should be more about the drivers and more about entertainment on the track," said Head. "The road-car people are doing a perfectly good job on hybrid anyway at the moment. I'm not sure that it needs Formula One to demonstrate hybrid technology."
Head thinks the main problem is the cost of the engines to the teams.
"You could produce 800 hp for [$2.7 million] a team each year. I think the teams are having to pay about 10 times that amount," said Head. "It's a very expensive way of powering Formula One cars. I think the engines are fascinating pieces of kit, but I think they are far too expensive for what they are supposed to be doing."
With a similar view is former F1 team boss Flavio Briatore, who said F1 began to turn the wrong corner due to the disproportionate influence of engineers.
"Is it realistic to design 70 different wings in one season?" he is quoted by Italy's La Stampa. "Just so these engineers can come to orgasm? Unfortunately, with the abolition of [Formula One Teams Association], a free hand was given to people with no sense of proportion."
06-03-2014, 06:19 PM
#45
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Williams Formula One co-founder says series is too expensive, has taken wrong turn
Patrick Head wants less focus on hybrid technology, more on drivers and entertainment
By: GMM on June 2, 2014
Formula One's new turbo era is "far too expensive,” according to Williams co-founder and former technical boss Patrick Head. The 67-year-old Briton also told the BBC that he thinks the sport has taken a wrong turn in focusing too much on road-relevant hybrid technology.
"I think it should be more about the drivers and more about entertainment on the track," said Head. "The road-car people are doing a perfectly good job on hybrid anyway at the moment. I'm not sure that it needs Formula One to demonstrate hybrid technology."
Head thinks the main problem is the cost of the engines to the teams.
"You could produce 800 hp for [$2.7 million] a team each year. I think the teams are having to pay about 10 times that amount," said Head. "It's a very expensive way of powering Formula One cars. I think the engines are fascinating pieces of kit, but I think they are far too expensive for what they are supposed to be doing."
With a similar view is former F1 team boss Flavio Briatore, who said F1 began to turn the wrong corner due to the disproportionate influence of engineers.
"Is it realistic to design 70 different wings in one season?" he is quoted by Italy's La Stampa. "Just so these engineers can come to orgasm? Unfortunately, with the abolition of [Formula One Teams Association], a free hand was given to people with no sense of proportion."
Patrick Head wants less focus on hybrid technology, more on drivers and entertainment
By: GMM on June 2, 2014
Formula One's new turbo era is "far too expensive,” according to Williams co-founder and former technical boss Patrick Head. The 67-year-old Briton also told the BBC that he thinks the sport has taken a wrong turn in focusing too much on road-relevant hybrid technology.
"I think it should be more about the drivers and more about entertainment on the track," said Head. "The road-car people are doing a perfectly good job on hybrid anyway at the moment. I'm not sure that it needs Formula One to demonstrate hybrid technology."
Head thinks the main problem is the cost of the engines to the teams.
"You could produce 800 hp for [$2.7 million] a team each year. I think the teams are having to pay about 10 times that amount," said Head. "It's a very expensive way of powering Formula One cars. I think the engines are fascinating pieces of kit, but I think they are far too expensive for what they are supposed to be doing."
With a similar view is former F1 team boss Flavio Briatore, who said F1 began to turn the wrong corner due to the disproportionate influence of engineers.
"Is it realistic to design 70 different wings in one season?" he is quoted by Italy's La Stampa. "Just so these engineers can come to orgasm? Unfortunately, with the abolition of [Formula One Teams Association], a free hand was given to people with no sense of proportion."
The same can be said for LMP1. There are all of 9 entries at Le Mans this year.
06-04-2014, 11:34 PM
#46
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Before my love of Corvette all I paid attention to was the Top Class. The movie "Lemans" at the local theatre starring Steve McQueen got me hooked when I was young. I don't remember the class designation at the time but I will never forget the 12 cylinder Porsche 917 with the Gulf Oil color scheme. My father is a retired ship captain for Gulf so it was even better that "my dad" worked for the company with the "baddest car" !
06-05-2014, 01:00 AM
#47
Safety Car
Before my love of Corvette all I paid attention to was the Top Class. The movie "Lemans" at the local theatre starring Steve McQueen got me hooked when I was young. I don't remember the class designation at the time but I will never forget the 12 cylinder Porsche 917 with the Gulf Oil color scheme. My father is a retired ship captain for Gulf so it was even better that "my dad" worked for the company with the "baddest car" !
Hear!!! ... Turn up the volume for this one. I like the sound my Z06 makes but this is from another planet.
No paddle shifting. No rev matching. No safety equipment (besides seat belts
), no speedometer, etc. When men were men ^h^h^h crazy.http://tinyurl.com/q8tnuxs (it's youtube.)
Z//
06-05-2014, 11:46 AM
#48
Race Director
Before my love of Corvette all I paid attention to was the Top Class. The movie "Lemans" at the local theatre starring Steve McQueen got me hooked when I was young. I don't remember the class designation at the time but I will never forget the 12 cylinder Porsche 917 with the Gulf Oil color scheme. My father is a retired ship captain for Gulf so it was even better that "my dad" worked for the company with the "baddest car" !
06-06-2014, 04:22 AM
#49
Not a fan of the new F1 sound, and the typical F1 hypocrisy between the call for less expensive racing while simultaneously adding significant complexity to the power units just highlights how seemingly out of touch F1 leadership can be.
And, while there was some interesting racing early on due to the severe unreliability of many cars, we now have seemed to settle into a somewhat boring season at least from an inter-team perspective.
The lack of team orders between Hamilton and Rosberg is refreshing, and the two are closely matches so they have been carrying the season IMO (as has Ricciardo).
Also, it is fun to hear Hamilton freak out on the radio.
So, even though the engine sound is no longer as thrilling, I'll still be watching every race.
Maybe F1 should try to get BMW back in, but rather than building engines and cars, they can just play back the V8 engine sounds through the grandstand speakers.
-T
And, while there was some interesting racing early on due to the severe unreliability of many cars, we now have seemed to settle into a somewhat boring season at least from an inter-team perspective.
The lack of team orders between Hamilton and Rosberg is refreshing, and the two are closely matches so they have been carrying the season IMO (as has Ricciardo).
Also, it is fun to hear Hamilton freak out on the radio.
So, even though the engine sound is no longer as thrilling, I'll still be watching every race.
Maybe F1 should try to get BMW back in, but rather than building engines and cars, they can just play back the V8 engine sounds through the grandstand speakers.
-T
Last edited by Trackaholic; 06-06-2014 at 04:24 AM.
06-06-2014, 07:20 AM
#50
Racer
06-06-2014, 03:09 PM
#52
"I think it should be more about the drivers and more about entertainment on the track," said Head. I'm not sure that it needs Formula One to demonstrate hybrid technology."
Head thinks the main problem is the cost of the engines to the teams.
"You could produce 800 hp for [$2.7 million] a team each year. I think the teams are having to pay about 10 times that amount," said Head.
Head thinks the main problem is the cost of the engines to the teams.
"You could produce 800 hp for [$2.7 million] a team each year. I think the teams are having to pay about 10 times that amount," said Head.
06-06-2014, 05:19 PM
#53
Safety Car
This is the guy who hired Adrian Newey to create the wonderful FW14/B - the technological marvel of its day - the car that every other team now had to try and catch up to (and pay $$$ for the privilege.)
High-end auto racing has *always* been about engineering, manufacturers, and big bucks. F1 (and Le Mans prototypes) have never been about "everyman" racing.
To have the fraud that is Briatore suggest that F1 ought to converted into IROC is just nonsense spewed from a publicity *****.
I *do* think that F1 needs to implement some sort of a cost cap in order to prevent it from falling into the trap that high-end racing has always fallen into where the little guys can't afford to play any more and the series dies because of it. The big teams keep vetoing the idea and their failure to look out for the bigger picture is not a good omen. Hopefully, when Bernie finally exists the scene the next management team will be both smart enough and strong-fisted enough to make it happen. Otherwise...
Z//
06-07-2014, 06:39 AM
#54
Team Owner
We're in Montreal for the GP this weekend and the sound sucks.
You can stand at track side, which I did, 10' from the track, without ear protection and hold a conversation while the cars pass you by.
We arrived early for FP1 and the entry races made up of Honda Fit's, Mini Coopers, etc were just as loud. The Safety and Medical cars were much louder than the F1 cars.
Yes they make the same power and are just as fast, or faster, but the sound was a big part of the experience. I think Formula-E will fail due to this.
Every year they say its too expensive and every year they sell out each event at very high ticket prices. IMO embrace the cost and let them put on a better show.
We have been here a few times for the GP and this year its different. The sound is gone, the fans are less excited is my read, and its not nearly as big of a deal then during the V10 era.
I now know tires on F1 cars make noise, that is what you hear when they corner, something you never ever heard before.
Ever wonder how bad a great movie would be without the music? That is how F1 is now.
BTW all that sound you hear is enhanced, they do not sound like that in person. I'm sitting on corners 1&2 and you hear them about 2 seconds before they come into sight and once they round corner 2 and are a hair out of eyesight the sound is gone. I have to watch the monitors to see when they are coming down the start/finish to anticipate when they will come into view, you cannot hear them at all.
During FP yesterday you sat in silence until the cars came into your view and left it, it was never like that before.
You can stand at track side, which I did, 10' from the track, without ear protection and hold a conversation while the cars pass you by.
We arrived early for FP1 and the entry races made up of Honda Fit's, Mini Coopers, etc were just as loud. The Safety and Medical cars were much louder than the F1 cars.
Yes they make the same power and are just as fast, or faster, but the sound was a big part of the experience. I think Formula-E will fail due to this.
Every year they say its too expensive and every year they sell out each event at very high ticket prices. IMO embrace the cost and let them put on a better show.
We have been here a few times for the GP and this year its different. The sound is gone, the fans are less excited is my read, and its not nearly as big of a deal then during the V10 era.
I now know tires on F1 cars make noise, that is what you hear when they corner, something you never ever heard before.
Ever wonder how bad a great movie would be without the music? That is how F1 is now.
BTW all that sound you hear is enhanced, they do not sound like that in person. I'm sitting on corners 1&2 and you hear them about 2 seconds before they come into sight and once they round corner 2 and are a hair out of eyesight the sound is gone. I have to watch the monitors to see when they are coming down the start/finish to anticipate when they will come into view, you cannot hear them at all.
During FP yesterday you sat in silence until the cars came into your view and left it, it was never like that before.
Last edited by NoOne; 06-07-2014 at 06:46 AM.
06-07-2014, 01:30 PM
#55
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We're in Montreal for the GP this weekend and the sound sucks.
You can stand at track side, which I did, 10' from the track, without ear protection and hold a conversation while the cars pass you by.
We arrived early for FP1 and the entry races made up of Honda Fit's, Mini Coopers, etc were just as loud. The Safety and Medical cars were much louder than the F1 cars.
Yes they make the same power and are just as fast, or faster, but the sound was a big part of the experience. I think Formula-E will fail due to this.
Every year they say its too expensive and every year they sell out each event at very high ticket prices. IMO embrace the cost and let them put on a better show.
We have been here a few times for the GP and this year its different. The sound is gone, the fans are less excited is my read, and its not nearly as big of a deal then during the V10 era.
I now know tires on F1 cars make noise, that is what you hear when they corner, something you never ever heard before.
Ever wonder how bad a great movie would be without the music? That is how F1 is now.
BTW all that sound you hear is enhanced, they do not sound like that in person. I'm sitting on corners 1&2 and you hear them about 2 seconds before they come into sight and once they round corner 2 and are a hair out of eyesight the sound is gone. I have to watch the monitors to see when they are coming down the start/finish to anticipate when they will come into view, you cannot hear them at all.
During FP yesterday you sat in silence until the cars came into your view and left it, it was never like that before.
You can stand at track side, which I did, 10' from the track, without ear protection and hold a conversation while the cars pass you by.
We arrived early for FP1 and the entry races made up of Honda Fit's, Mini Coopers, etc were just as loud. The Safety and Medical cars were much louder than the F1 cars.
Yes they make the same power and are just as fast, or faster, but the sound was a big part of the experience. I think Formula-E will fail due to this.
Every year they say its too expensive and every year they sell out each event at very high ticket prices. IMO embrace the cost and let them put on a better show.
We have been here a few times for the GP and this year its different. The sound is gone, the fans are less excited is my read, and its not nearly as big of a deal then during the V10 era.
I now know tires on F1 cars make noise, that is what you hear when they corner, something you never ever heard before.
Ever wonder how bad a great movie would be without the music? That is how F1 is now.
BTW all that sound you hear is enhanced, they do not sound like that in person. I'm sitting on corners 1&2 and you hear them about 2 seconds before they come into sight and once they round corner 2 and are a hair out of eyesight the sound is gone. I have to watch the monitors to see when they are coming down the start/finish to anticipate when they will come into view, you cannot hear them at all.
During FP yesterday you sat in silence until the cars came into your view and left it, it was never like that before.
06-07-2014, 06:55 PM
#56
Safety Car
You do realize that this is all just "preaching to the choir", right? Exchanging tales of woe with those who agree with you and doing nothing else about it is kind of sad and thoroughly pointless. Put all this energy into some action by writing to Bernie and the FIA and FOTA and the Canadian GP folks and voicing your concerns and dislikes.
In a similar vein, the rich teams have now proposed killing all of Thursday's press day and having just a single 90 minute practice session on Friday. This is to "save money" for the small teams. See "arrogance" (and that's saying something in the F1 world!)
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns28207.html
Z//
In a similar vein, the rich teams have now proposed killing all of Thursday's press day and having just a single 90 minute practice session on Friday. This is to "save money" for the small teams. See "arrogance" (and that's saying something in the F1 world!)
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns28207.html
Z//
06-07-2014, 09:07 PM
#57
Melting Slicks
The car sounds are lacking, but they have more power and a lot more torque then before and are harder to drive. I personally love that Renault who demanded the engine change cause it was more relevant to the cars it sells, are the slowest engines out there.
Also, the noses I hope will be gone next year, its like everyone agreed to do either a Phallic or Vaginal look to the nose to spite the rules laid upon them.
Also, the noses I hope will be gone next year, its like everyone agreed to do either a Phallic or Vaginal look to the nose to spite the rules laid upon them.
06-07-2014, 09:24 PM
#58
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I don't get the bit about the noses. Are they as nice as the first aero cars like the Lotus 79? No. But they beat the hell out of those high-nosed cars that started around '97. Those cars were fugly beyond belief. 
06-07-2014, 11:49 PM
#59
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You do realize that this is all just "preaching to the choir", right? Exchanging tales of woe with those who agree with you and doing nothing else about it is kind of sad and thoroughly pointless. Put all this energy into some action by writing to Bernie and the FIA and FOTA and the Canadian GP folks and voicing your concerns and dislikes.
In a similar vein, the rich teams have now proposed killing all of Thursday's press day and having just a single 90 minute practice session on Friday. This is to "save money" for the small teams. See "arrogance" (and that's saying something in the F1 world!)
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns28207.html
Z//
In a similar vein, the rich teams have now proposed killing all of Thursday's press day and having just a single 90 minute practice session on Friday. This is to "save money" for the small teams. See "arrogance" (and that's saying something in the F1 world!)
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns28207.html
Z//
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/for...urd-farce.html
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blo...ne-cars-volume
06-08-2014, 10:06 AM
#60
Team Owner
Part of the problem with F1 as you remove the things that make it exciting its other flaws show up. Costs being one of them.
Fan access is an exclusivity in F1 and not really attainable. There is its own economy to an F1 race that go from the people who pay $60 to sit on the grass to those who pay upwards of $7,000 to sit in the paddock clubs.
Granted all races have that but the cost differences are smaller. We sat in decent seats and they were chosen based on our ability to take pictures rather than price and this weekend for the two of us is an easy 4,000. $950 in tickets, $1,900 in hotel, plus food/transportation, etc.
Even the people who do it on the cheaper end are paying 2,000 to sit in the cheap seats by the time is all said and done. Your expecting an experience when you go and its what we got in the V10 days here.
The city seems pretty quiet, the fans are very quiet, the cars are very quiet. So to get more of the experience you have to move up in cost and not a lot of people are willing to drop 10K on a weekend at a race when there are so many other venues which are available and provide more access. I would love to do pit access but its about 9K for both of us for the weekend...I would give it serious consideration in the V10 days but now I'm looking at something we're going to do once, is this the time I want to spend it?
COTA is insanely priced, for 20 percent more money than COTA I could go sit in one of the hotels in Monaco above the track including air fare.
We go for photography a lot. We travel to various events just for the picture experience. NHRA is most accessible, TUDOR/ALMS is second. For Road American in August we have photo passes you can buy which allow all access, track side and all.
I inquired about that with F1 and nothing like it exists, at any price. Me personally if I was going to spend 8K on a weekend I'd rather be track side for pictures than sitting in a AC booth.
I do not know if attendance will change much in the short term. People plan these trips a year in advance if not more. So it would have to remain like this for 2-3 years before they see it.
I'm trying to get some video to upload from the hotel before we leave for the track but its too slow. You would be surprised how quiet it is but here are a few pics. Weather is fantastic and the cars are pretty impressive to shoot:
Taken from our seats here
All the pics are here http://ericptek.smugmug.com You will see F1 2014 for Friday/Saturday plus some other events we've done.
Fan access is an exclusivity in F1 and not really attainable. There is its own economy to an F1 race that go from the people who pay $60 to sit on the grass to those who pay upwards of $7,000 to sit in the paddock clubs.
Granted all races have that but the cost differences are smaller. We sat in decent seats and they were chosen based on our ability to take pictures rather than price and this weekend for the two of us is an easy 4,000. $950 in tickets, $1,900 in hotel, plus food/transportation, etc.
Even the people who do it on the cheaper end are paying 2,000 to sit in the cheap seats by the time is all said and done. Your expecting an experience when you go and its what we got in the V10 days here.
The city seems pretty quiet, the fans are very quiet, the cars are very quiet. So to get more of the experience you have to move up in cost and not a lot of people are willing to drop 10K on a weekend at a race when there are so many other venues which are available and provide more access. I would love to do pit access but its about 9K for both of us for the weekend...I would give it serious consideration in the V10 days but now I'm looking at something we're going to do once, is this the time I want to spend it?
COTA is insanely priced, for 20 percent more money than COTA I could go sit in one of the hotels in Monaco above the track including air fare.
We go for photography a lot. We travel to various events just for the picture experience. NHRA is most accessible, TUDOR/ALMS is second. For Road American in August we have photo passes you can buy which allow all access, track side and all.
I inquired about that with F1 and nothing like it exists, at any price. Me personally if I was going to spend 8K on a weekend I'd rather be track side for pictures than sitting in a AC booth.
I do not know if attendance will change much in the short term. People plan these trips a year in advance if not more. So it would have to remain like this for 2-3 years before they see it.
I'm trying to get some video to upload from the hotel before we leave for the track but its too slow. You would be surprised how quiet it is but here are a few pics. Weather is fantastic and the cars are pretty impressive to shoot:
Taken from our seats here
All the pics are here http://ericptek.smugmug.com You will see F1 2014 for Friday/Saturday plus some other events we've done.
Last edited by NoOne; 06-08-2014 at 10:14 AM.