C5 Oil Cooler Location Options?
03-07-2014, 01:30 PM
#21
Former Vendor
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
I would definately agree that your liquid to liquid cooler is more efficent, but in application which solutions yields the lower oil temperatures and still maintain sufficient coolant temps?
Integrated you are cooling 280F-300F oil with what 220F-240F coolant?
How much temperature drop can you expect?
An "adequately sized" stand alone EOC you are cooling 280F-300F oil with ~ambient air, a much larger difference. The stand alone EOC will sacrifice effectiveness of our radiator, but if you have plenty safety room with regard to radiator cooling capacity, then I would not think you would be concerned the loose in radiator cooling.
Believe me, I love the idea of a combo radiator for reasons which have already been mentioned, but I am not convinced that the resulting lower oil temps are "low enough". I would love to hear/see some data on people tracking their C5/C6's with integrated and standalone engine oil coolers.
Integrated you are cooling 280F-300F oil with what 220F-240F coolant?
How much temperature drop can you expect?
An "adequately sized" stand alone EOC you are cooling 280F-300F oil with ~ambient air, a much larger difference. The stand alone EOC will sacrifice effectiveness of our radiator, but if you have plenty safety room with regard to radiator cooling capacity, then I would not think you would be concerned the loose in radiator cooling.
Believe me, I love the idea of a combo radiator for reasons which have already been mentioned, but I am not convinced that the resulting lower oil temps are "low enough". I would love to hear/see some data on people tracking their C5/C6's with integrated and standalone engine oil coolers.
Normal driving with a 160 stat and 75-80 degree air temp I generally see:
178-190 water temp and oil temp of 200-220
On track water temp is generally 200-220 and oil temp 245-270 depending on track conditions and oil.
If you can keep the water 180-220 and oil temps 240-265 you should be able to run a 24hr race....at least not and have any issues due to temp.s
03-07-2014, 01:55 PM
#22
Drifting
For my customers I install a better radiator with a built in oil cooler. This helps with warm-up and cooling. If they feel the oil temps are still too high I add an external cooler in series. Make sure you know what temp your oil can take. Good oils can handle what used to be considered too hot.
03-07-2014, 04:01 PM
#23
Melting Slicks
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Because of the space required, fitment, and just overall air flow of the C5 we had ours built into the radiator itself just like what we do on the race cars.
This is not only a more efficient way of cooling the oil and gives you a more stable temp, and quicker oil warm up in colder weather as well.
Like Bill said, a number of us all do it like that and it makes for a nice clean install and you don't have to worry about air flow blockage in front of the radiator. A properly sized unit up there will block a good portion of air flow going through the nose of the car.
This is not only a more efficient way of cooling the oil and gives you a more stable temp, and quicker oil warm up in colder weather as well.
Like Bill said, a number of us all do it like that and it makes for a nice clean install and you don't have to worry about air flow blockage in front of the radiator. A properly sized unit up there will block a good portion of air flow going through the nose of the car.
C&R Racing has come out with a cooling module that incorporates a high performance DENSO dual-pass, cross-flow core and a high efficiency engine oil cooler and a power steering cooler.
The oil cooler in this module will not restrict your oil flow as the coolers in some of the less expensive radiators can.
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03-08-2014, 08:49 PM
#24
Le Mans Master
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Jim, is this what you are running in your car this season? I saw a thread you started about laying the radiator forwards, are you planning on doing that with the unit pictured?
03-09-2014, 08:42 AM
#26
Melting Slicks
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I am running the C&R Racing cooling module shown above. I installed it in the standard location. I did the prototype work with C&R for C5s. They rate the radiator for engines up to 1,000 hp.
I am also finishing the install and tuning of my new engine, a new carbon-fiber, Kevlar, louvered hood from Black Dog Racing, L.G. Motorsports billet knuckles, and RPM Transmissions in Anderson, Indiana will be installing one of the TREMEC TR-6070 seven-speed transmissions in early May.
Last edited by Pumba; 04-23-2014 at 07:37 PM.
03-09-2014, 10:23 PM
#27
Le Mans Master
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Scotty,
I am running the C&R Racing cooling module shown above. I installed it in the standard location. I did the prototype work with C&R for C5s. They rate the radiator for engines up to 1,000 hp.
I am also finishing the install and tuning of my new engine, a new carbon-fiber, Kevlar, louvered hood from Black Dog Racing, L.G. Motorsports billet knuckles, and RPM Transmissions in Anderson, Indiana will be installing one of the TREMEC TR-6070 seven-speed transmissions in early April.
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I am running the C&R Racing cooling module shown above. I installed it in the standard location. I did the prototype work with C&R for C5s. They rate the radiator for engines up to 1,000 hp.
I am also finishing the install and tuning of my new engine, a new carbon-fiber, Kevlar, louvered hood from Black Dog Racing, L.G. Motorsports billet knuckles, and RPM Transmissions in Anderson, Indiana will be installing one of the TREMEC TR-6070 seven-speed transmissions in early April.
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03-11-2014, 07:15 AM
#28
Instructor
Thread Starter
I appreciate all the feedback. Despite the extreme humid and hot weather conditions here in the Gulf Coast area, you guys have swayed me towards the integrated engine oil cooler (EOC). I love the simplicity. I also like that the radiator serves as both an oil warmer and cooler, so that hopefully the system (ie. engine) runs at a more stable temperature and I can eliminate a thermostat for the EOC. The reduced temperatures on the coolant side should also help further reduce temperatures on the oil side. As an added bonus the integrated solution will be a cheaper solution as compared to a separate radiator and EOC. Finally, if I am not happy with the results, I can still run a small EOC (ie. tube and fin) inline with the and stuff it somewhere in the engine bay.
03-11-2014, 08:14 AM
#29
Le Mans Master
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Bryan, I live in Jefferson County along the Gulf Coast just wondering if you are located near me? Texas summers here are brutally hot, you're going to need a very robust and efficient radiator if you drive hard and expect optimal temps for both coolant and oil.
03-20-2014, 05:22 PM
#31
Dumb question, but why do the LG and Ron Davis radiators have the EOC on the passenger side end tank and the Dewitts EOC is on the driver side end tank? Is there more space for the lines on passenger side? Thats the only thing I can come up with......seems like you would want the EOC to be on the driver side for a shorter distance to the block adapter......but there must be a logical reason why the EOC is on the passenger side on 2 of the brands....anyone care to explain? Thanks
03-20-2014, 06:27 PM
#32
Instructor
Thread Starter
Dumb question, but why do the LG and Ron Davis radiators have the EOC on the passenger side end tank and the Dewitts EOC is on the driver side end tank? Is there more space for the lines on passenger side? Thats the only thing I can come up with......seems like you would want the EOC to be on the driver side for a shorter distance to the block adapter......but there must be a logical reason why the EOC is on the passenger side on 2 of the brands....anyone care to explain? Thanks
Another plus of driver side EOC is the oil is warmed by the coolant after start up.
I can't answer what would be the preferred solution, but me personally, I have chosen the DeWitts. An integrated EOC relies on the radiator to dissipate that heat pulled from the oil. With the EOC on the driver side you allow the radiator to do its job before feeding the coolant back into the motor.
03-20-2014, 08:38 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Dumb question, but why do the LG and Ron Davis radiators have the EOC on the passenger side end tank and the Dewitts EOC is on the driver side end tank? Is there more space for the lines on passenger side? Thats the only thing I can come up with......seems like you would want the EOC to be on the driver side for a shorter distance to the block adapter......but there must be a logical reason why the EOC is on the passenger side on 2 of the brands....anyone care to explain? Thanks
Last edited by ZedO6; 03-20-2014 at 10:06 PM.
04-19-2014, 07:47 AM
#34
Drifting
Because of the space required, fitment, and just overall air flow of the C5 we had ours built into the radiator itself just like what we do on the race cars.
This is not only a more efficient way of cooling the oil and gives you a more stable temp, and quicker oil warm up in colder weather as well.
Like Bill said, a number of us all do it like that and it makes for a nice clean install and you don't have to worry about air flow blockage in front of the radiator. A properly sized unit up there will block a good portion of air flow going through the nose of the car.
This is not only a more efficient way of cooling the oil and gives you a more stable temp, and quicker oil warm up in colder weather as well.
Like Bill said, a number of us all do it like that and it makes for a nice clean install and you don't have to worry about air flow blockage in front of the radiator. A properly sized unit up there will block a good portion of air flow going through the nose of the car.
04-21-2014, 10:12 AM
#35
Former Vendor
Right side oil coolers produce lower oil temps under all conditions. . This is why Ron Davis (we run-sell them) does it and I'm assuming why LGM runs-sell them in this way also. Oil temps are enemy number one in racing to a long lasting engine.
Plumbing and working on the left side is always more challenging because of the ABS unit. Sure the Z51 lines work ok, but are smaller and more prone to failure due to the OEM like construction.
It's all about trade offs in car modifying, we choose to tip the scales more towards the racing crowd.
Randy
Plumbing and working on the left side is always more challenging because of the ABS unit. Sure the Z51 lines work ok, but are smaller and more prone to failure due to the OEM like construction.
It's all about trade offs in car modifying, we choose to tip the scales more towards the racing crowd.
Randy
04-21-2014, 04:58 PM
#36
Melting Slicks
Any thoughts on the stand alone vs integrated for the boosted crowd? I have been considering the DRM stand alone unit for a long time now, but seeing this maybe I could get away with an integrated setup. I have a 638rwhp supercharged car that I run on road courses like Mid America and Road America. I'm also curious if there are issues getting the larger radiator to fit with the supercharged setup and intercooler.
04-21-2014, 07:43 PM
#37
Racer
I have a drysump 408 in my track car and this is what I've found running 30 minute sessions at 90%+ on slicks:
Running a Ron Davis rad. without EOC hooked up:
Oil: 250+
Coolant: 220-230ish
Running a Ron Davis rad. WITH separate Setrab oil cooler (pic below):
Oil: 192 (peak on 85 deg. day)
Coolant: 200-210
The cooler is plumbed prior to entering the drysump tank. This kept oil pressure higher and overall led to a more consistent oiling system.
Untitled by EMS Tuner
Running a Ron Davis rad. without EOC hooked up:
Oil: 250+
Coolant: 220-230ish
Running a Ron Davis rad. WITH separate Setrab oil cooler (pic below):
Oil: 192 (peak on 85 deg. day)
Coolant: 200-210
The cooler is plumbed prior to entering the drysump tank. This kept oil pressure higher and overall led to a more consistent oiling system.
Untitled by EMS Tuner
Last edited by FRC Z51; 04-21-2014 at 07:58 PM.
04-21-2014, 08:36 PM
#38
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Northville Michigan
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I have a drysump 408 in my track car and this is what I've found running 30 minute sessions at 90%+ on slicks:
Running a Ron Davis rad. without EOC hooked up:
Oil: 250+
Coolant: 220-230ish
Running a Ron Davis rad. WITH separate Setrab oil cooler (pic below):
Oil: 192 (peak on 85 deg. day)
Coolant: 200-210
The cooler is plumbed prior to entering the drysump tank. This kept oil pressure higher and overall led to a more consistent oiling system.
Untitled by EMS Tuner
Running a Ron Davis rad. without EOC hooked up:
Oil: 250+
Coolant: 220-230ish
Running a Ron Davis rad. WITH separate Setrab oil cooler (pic below):
Oil: 192 (peak on 85 deg. day)
Coolant: 200-210
The cooler is plumbed prior to entering the drysump tank. This kept oil pressure higher and overall led to a more consistent oiling system.
Untitled by EMS Tuner
I agree with FRC Z51. I recently tried a dual pass cross flow radiator rated for 1,000 hp, with an integrated oil cooler. My engine water temperatures cruising around town were 198 degrees with oil at 230 degrees. That's 14 degrees hotter water and 28 degrees hotter oil compared to when I was running a separate SETRAB engine oil cooler that rejected heat at the rate of 350 BTU/Hour/degree F and a Ron Davis radiator.
This week I am again installing a separate SETRAB oil cooler rated at 411 BTU/Hour/degree F.
Last edited by Pumba; 04-21-2014 at 08:38 PM.
04-21-2014, 11:06 PM
#39
Former Vendor
Boosted cars + Track cars = Cooling problems.
My suggestion is to figure out if you have room for a large EOC in front of all the other coolers. The cooler is about the size of a piece of paper and two inches thick. Also run a aftermarket radiator.
If you don't have room due to the intercooler.
Then doing a Rad with EOC is the only way to go. Yes they are a pain to fit in with supercharger hoses but can be done. The only reason why I don't suggest this right off the bat is the water system is heavily taxed already with a ton of power.
If you want to run 30 flat out in 100 degree days. Remove supercharger and add cooling. If you want to run around and have some fun, then do what you can and slow down with the temps get too high.
Randy
My suggestion is to figure out if you have room for a large EOC in front of all the other coolers. The cooler is about the size of a piece of paper and two inches thick. Also run a aftermarket radiator.
If you don't have room due to the intercooler.
Then doing a Rad with EOC is the only way to go. Yes they are a pain to fit in with supercharger hoses but can be done. The only reason why I don't suggest this right off the bat is the water system is heavily taxed already with a ton of power.
If you want to run 30 flat out in 100 degree days. Remove supercharger and add cooling. If you want to run around and have some fun, then do what you can and slow down with the temps get too high.
Randy
04-21-2014, 11:11 PM
#40
Former Vendor
FRC,
So you didn't have a oil cooler during the first set of numbers?
I'm just shocked how much a 619 dropped the temps. 60+ degrees is a huge gain. Which is a good thing and dropped the water temps as one would assume.
Where is your oil temps measured? Just curious is all.
Randy
So you didn't have a oil cooler during the first set of numbers?
I'm just shocked how much a 619 dropped the temps. 60+ degrees is a huge gain. Which is a good thing and dropped the water temps as one would assume.
Where is your oil temps measured? Just curious is all.
Randy
