How does one ever become good at autocross
07-15-2002, 05:24 PM
#1
Drifting
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How does one ever become good at autocross
I just completed by firt autocross (soloII). After doing so I have come to three conclusions on how I can improve. I need better tires, I need to spend more time studying the track, and I need a lot of practice. The first two I can handle, but practice looks to be a problem. I invested nearly the whole day and got no more than 4 minutes of seat time. Now I have to wait a month or two to invest another day just to get presumable another 4 minutes of seat time. There has got to be a better way! What can those of you who are veterans to the sport recomend? Also is their another form of entry-level competition or recreational events that offer more seat time?
07-15-2002, 06:28 PM
#2
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Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (SoCal C5)
Some race 'weekends' will include open practices on the saturday(actual auto-x sunday). One can normally run til the wheels come off because as soon as you make a run, you can get back in line to have another go, repeat, etc...
Bring an instructor w/ you if you can so they can give you valuable feedback and point out tips.
Autocross is a precision sport, where memory and what I call aggressive preciseness, will get your times down--unfortunately, it comes down to practice and securing as much seat team as your weekend schedules will allow...
Enjoy, and you'll be surprised how quickly your times will drop if you......practice, practice, practice! ;)
George
[Modified by GTB/ZR-1, 4:33 PM 7/15/2002]
Bring an instructor w/ you if you can so they can give you valuable feedback and point out tips.
Autocross is a precision sport, where memory and what I call aggressive preciseness, will get your times down--unfortunately, it comes down to practice and securing as much seat team as your weekend schedules will allow...
Enjoy, and you'll be surprised how quickly your times will drop if you......practice, practice, practice! ;)
George
[Modified by GTB/ZR-1, 4:33 PM 7/15/2002]
07-15-2002, 07:32 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (SoCal C5)
Try a auto-x racing school.
Also I went to a corvette club auto-x school here is Texas and I got a bunch of seat time. Most of the people at the school had never auto-xed before and we interested in a couple runs on the course, so I was able to get about 7 runs in within a couple hours. Then they shut thing down, since no one else wanted to run.
I am sure there are corvette clubs in your neck of the woods that do that same thing.
Also the corvette clubs down here hold corvette only auto-x's. Cost is about $45 and you get 6 runs and the event was Sat and Sun, so 6 runs each day. And then they had fun runs after the event.
Also check for a club that does fun runs after the events. Fun runs if have not done any, is when the event is over and they let the participants have runs on the course that do not count toward the event. I have been to events that I ended up getting about 10 to 12 runs total. With the extra runs at the fun runs.
Also I went to a corvette club auto-x school here is Texas and I got a bunch of seat time. Most of the people at the school had never auto-xed before and we interested in a couple runs on the course, so I was able to get about 7 runs in within a couple hours. Then they shut thing down, since no one else wanted to run.
I am sure there are corvette clubs in your neck of the woods that do that same thing.
Also the corvette clubs down here hold corvette only auto-x's. Cost is about $45 and you get 6 runs and the event was Sat and Sun, so 6 runs each day. And then they had fun runs after the event.
Also check for a club that does fun runs after the events. Fun runs if have not done any, is when the event is over and they let the participants have runs on the course that do not count toward the event. I have been to events that I ended up getting about 10 to 12 runs total. With the extra runs at the fun runs.
07-15-2002, 08:39 PM
#4
Team Owner
Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (SoCal C5)
You might read this from the Tire Rack web site: http://www.tirerack.com/features/solo2/handbook.htm
I have had the same sort of questions and even though I only attend about 3 events a year, the real answer is 6 words: seat time, seat time, seat time! You should expect at least 4 runs per event and some events will even have fun runs after the competition is over.
I have talked to experienced Autocrossers and got a lot of really good insights and tips. Go slow to go fast; look where the car is going to be after entering a turn-not where you are in the turn; get braking done before entering a turn and firm but smooth throttle going out; be smooth- don't jerk the wheel; walk the course as much as you can and ask an experienced driver if you can walk with him to get some advice; get a course map if provided and make notes or review it (visualize) right before you move to the start line. If the rules permit, try to ride with an experienced driver.
Everything I have heard is 90% driver and 10% car. While I replaced the original (rock-hard) GS-C's with a softer tire, I'm not sure that made a BIG difference but I needed new tires anyway. C5 run-flats may not be the best for an autocross tire, but IMHO, the trick is to be able to run a course as best as possible before spending lots of cash on new rubber or mods. Try experimenting with tire pressures- ask other C5 drivers what they run; it might help!
Contact some Corvette clubs in the area and see if they hold autocross events. Our SCCA region held a Novice school last March and the fee included entry to the following day's event. I learned a lot from an instructor who not only rode with me, but drove my car and I got a ride in his car. He ran a Toyota MX2 turbo and was 6 seconds faster than my best time. He drove my car (he had never driven a Vette before!) and was 4 seconds faster than me :( He even made a comment about the gawd-awful horsepower my car had :eek: :lol: !!
I'll attend autocross events that are as much as an all-day drive just to go have fun!
I have had the same sort of questions and even though I only attend about 3 events a year, the real answer is 6 words: seat time, seat time, seat time! You should expect at least 4 runs per event and some events will even have fun runs after the competition is over.
I have talked to experienced Autocrossers and got a lot of really good insights and tips. Go slow to go fast; look where the car is going to be after entering a turn-not where you are in the turn; get braking done before entering a turn and firm but smooth throttle going out; be smooth- don't jerk the wheel; walk the course as much as you can and ask an experienced driver if you can walk with him to get some advice; get a course map if provided and make notes or review it (visualize) right before you move to the start line. If the rules permit, try to ride with an experienced driver.
Everything I have heard is 90% driver and 10% car. While I replaced the original (rock-hard) GS-C's with a softer tire, I'm not sure that made a BIG difference but I needed new tires anyway. C5 run-flats may not be the best for an autocross tire, but IMHO, the trick is to be able to run a course as best as possible before spending lots of cash on new rubber or mods. Try experimenting with tire pressures- ask other C5 drivers what they run; it might help!
Contact some Corvette clubs in the area and see if they hold autocross events. Our SCCA region held a Novice school last March and the fee included entry to the following day's event. I learned a lot from an instructor who not only rode with me, but drove my car and I got a ride in his car. He ran a Toyota MX2 turbo and was 6 seconds faster than my best time. He drove my car (he had never driven a Vette before!) and was 4 seconds faster than me :( He even made a comment about the gawd-awful horsepower my car had :eek: :lol: !!
I'll attend autocross events that are as much as an all-day drive just to go have fun!
07-15-2002, 10:09 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (SoCal C5)
Some of the things that worked for me:
1. Pick up "Secrets of Solo Racing" by Henry Watts. Lots of good info to chew on inbetween events.
2. Attend lots of events, and try to get instructors to ride/drive with you. That will cut the learning curve considerably. Check with your local region; most will allow instructors to ride with you either during or after your competition runs.
3. If your region offers an annual autox school, take advantage of it. It's a great way to get tons of seat time in one day, and usually you get to work with one instructor in depth.
Good luck,
Jason
1. Pick up "Secrets of Solo Racing" by Henry Watts. Lots of good info to chew on inbetween events.
2. Attend lots of events, and try to get instructors to ride/drive with you. That will cut the learning curve considerably. Check with your local region; most will allow instructors to ride with you either during or after your competition runs.
3. If your region offers an annual autox school, take advantage of it. It's a great way to get tons of seat time in one day, and usually you get to work with one instructor in depth.
Good luck,
Jason
07-15-2002, 10:46 PM
#6
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Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (SoCal C5)
Only 4 minutes of seat time !?! Wow you got ripped !
If I would have known you before yesterday I would have taken you out with me to a Porsche club's event that was at the Irwindale Speedway Sunday. We normally do 2 sessions of 20 minute continuous laps and the timing in the afternoon with 4 timed runs.
Sometimes we run the parking lot with cones with a total length of over a mile ! Or the main "bowl" where the NASCAR guys run with an AX course set up in the interior and the banked turns as the wide open sections - great stuff running on the banks !
I used to have a Porsche and was the VP of this club but visitors (X cars) are welcome with a Porsche friend. Another great way of getting massive amounts of seat time and instruction is to go to one of the events put on by these people:
http://www.speedventures.net/ (John Worth) http://www.tracquest.com (Todd Serota)
http://www.drivingconcepts.com (Judy Ray)
I have done events with the first two and I can assure you will learn more in one day with these guys that a year of Solo II running (or waiting). I have instructed at the Ventures events and there are people ranging from absolute neophites to full on racers. All come away very satified.
Email me if you want to talk more about some So Cal events.
[Modified by team5150, 6:49 PM 7/15/2002]
[Modified by team5150, 6:50 PM 7/15/2002]
[Modified by team5150, 6:50 PM 7/15/2002]
If I would have known you before yesterday I would have taken you out with me to a Porsche club's event that was at the Irwindale Speedway Sunday. We normally do 2 sessions of 20 minute continuous laps and the timing in the afternoon with 4 timed runs.
Sometimes we run the parking lot with cones with a total length of over a mile ! Or the main "bowl" where the NASCAR guys run with an AX course set up in the interior and the banked turns as the wide open sections - great stuff running on the banks !
I used to have a Porsche and was the VP of this club but visitors (X cars) are welcome with a Porsche friend. Another great way of getting massive amounts of seat time and instruction is to go to one of the events put on by these people:
http://www.speedventures.net/ (John Worth) http://www.tracquest.com (Todd Serota)
http://www.drivingconcepts.com (Judy Ray)
I have done events with the first two and I can assure you will learn more in one day with these guys that a year of Solo II running (or waiting). I have instructed at the Ventures events and there are people ranging from absolute neophites to full on racers. All come away very satified.
Email me if you want to talk more about some So Cal events.
[Modified by team5150, 6:49 PM 7/15/2002]
[Modified by team5150, 6:50 PM 7/15/2002]
[Modified by team5150, 6:50 PM 7/15/2002]
07-16-2002, 12:37 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
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Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (SoCal C5)
Ah - the eternal questions of life! Generally, they seem to remain unanswered (in my humble experience).
07-16-2002, 01:55 AM
#8
Drifting
Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (SoCal C5)
Try to attend an Evolution autocross school. Very good learning experience, lots of seat time. The instructors are natl. caliber and the cost is very reasonable.
07-16-2002, 10:08 AM
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Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (SoCal C5)
Reality is,because the nature of Autocross is precision driving,you can practice anywhere!!!Every time I drive,I attempt to make "perfect turns".Choose and hit your apex's.Use the "reflectors" in the pavement for "cones"!!!
I'm not saying break any laws,but................................ ..........
Very early on Sunday morning on I-10,on the way to Lake Charles to Autocross(a 105 mile transit for me),after the State had paved,but before they removed the "seperator Pylons"....................The Endless Slalom!!!! :yesnod: About 20 miles of it!!!
By all means,read "The Solo 2 Novice Handbook",get Watt's book,and maybe the video Autocrossing by Turner & Miles.,buy a decent set of Autocross tires(it will help you pick up your times a bit and keep you interested)Save the Suspension mods 'till later.Take an Autocrossing School if you need to,although,if you have National level guys at your regionals that will give you pointers you can save some money.
I also had problems getting the course down.My solution was to get to the Course Site early and help the Club set up(even if its another region).This will give you maximum time to familiarize yourself.You will also notice that the R.E. gives you one of the "better" work assignments later, during the event!!! :cool:
I'm not saying break any laws,but................................ ..........
Very early on Sunday morning on I-10,on the way to Lake Charles to Autocross(a 105 mile transit for me),after the State had paved,but before they removed the "seperator Pylons"....................The Endless Slalom!!!! :yesnod: About 20 miles of it!!!
By all means,read "The Solo 2 Novice Handbook",get Watt's book,and maybe the video Autocrossing by Turner & Miles.,buy a decent set of Autocross tires(it will help you pick up your times a bit and keep you interested)Save the Suspension mods 'till later.Take an Autocrossing School if you need to,although,if you have National level guys at your regionals that will give you pointers you can save some money.
I also had problems getting the course down.My solution was to get to the Course Site early and help the Club set up(even if its another region).This will give you maximum time to familiarize yourself.You will also notice that the R.E. gives you one of the "better" work assignments later, during the event!!! :cool:
07-16-2002, 12:24 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (SoCal C5)
The local corvette club where I autocross has "fun runs" after the autocross is over. As much practice as you can stand, but if you kill a cone you have to set it back up.
I'm going to fix the nut behind the wheel before I do anything else. I've been happy with my progress this is my first year and I'm doing what I hoped (no embarassing times, no stupid mistakes, and having a blast). See if there is a NCCC affiliated club in your area that puts on autocrosses, might get you to two per month.
[Modified by jaa1988, 11:28 AM 7/16/2002]
I'm going to fix the nut behind the wheel before I do anything else. I've been happy with my progress this is my first year and I'm doing what I hoped (no embarassing times, no stupid mistakes, and having a blast). See if there is a NCCC affiliated club in your area that puts on autocrosses, might get you to two per month.
[Modified by jaa1988, 11:28 AM 7/16/2002]
07-16-2002, 01:02 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (SoCal C5)
If they set up the course the day before - volunteer to help. Then ask if you can run the course backwards for practice. (pre-running any part of the course is a :nono: ) They are usually accomodating.
07-16-2002, 01:31 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
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Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (SoCal C5)
First "GET MORE SEAT TIME"
That being said check out the local NCCC clubs, if any of them are hosting events you will get a lot more seat time and a whole lot less standing around.
There is also a lot of NCCC autocrossing in the Phoenix and Las Vegas areas, check them out. Also lots of very good drivers that will help you learn to drive better
Second "GET MORE SEAT TIME"
That being said check out the local NCCC clubs, if any of them are hosting events you will get a lot more seat time and a whole lot less standing around.
There is also a lot of NCCC autocrossing in the Phoenix and Las Vegas areas, check them out. Also lots of very good drivers that will help you learn to drive better
Second "GET MORE SEAT TIME"
07-16-2002, 02:22 PM
#13
Drifting
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Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (vettmike)
WOW! That is a lot more really good information then I hopped for.:D Thanks to all of you. I will print this thread and check out each of your recomendations as I have time.
Team5150 you can expect e-mail reguarding local events.
Thanks again to all. :cheers:
Team5150 you can expect e-mail reguarding local events.
Thanks again to all. :cheers:
07-16-2002, 02:28 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (SoCal C5)
http://autocross.com/evolution/
- and -
Also, talk to someone experienced about co-driving. Let them run your car. They can give feedback on it, and your driving, and also show you what the car is capable of.
SoloII is 90% driver, 10% car. A fast driver will make any car go fast.
- and -
Also, talk to someone experienced about co-driving. Let them run your car. They can give feedback on it, and your driving, and also show you what the car is capable of.
SoloII is 90% driver, 10% car. A fast driver will make any car go fast.
07-17-2002, 09:52 AM
#15
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Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (TravisD)
Well, if it makes you feel any better:
Dennis Bauer (Blackshark) and I have won our share of races (SCCA road racing, time trials, etc.) and one day we decided to try an Auto-X. To make a long story short, we sucked and were the slowest guys there. Heck, I had a hard time just figuring out which way the course went in the sea of cones!
By the end of the day I think I figured out which way to go, but I still sucked!
My conclusions are that you:
1)need to just do it, many, many times and you will eventually get better, and:
2) Auto-X and road race are totally different skill sets and have almost no cross over.
Dennis Bauer (Blackshark) and I have won our share of races (SCCA road racing, time trials, etc.) and one day we decided to try an Auto-X. To make a long story short, we sucked and were the slowest guys there. Heck, I had a hard time just figuring out which way the course went in the sea of cones!
By the end of the day I think I figured out which way to go, but I still sucked!
My conclusions are that you:
1)need to just do it, many, many times and you will eventually get better, and:
2) Auto-X and road race are totally different skill sets and have almost no cross over.
07-17-2002, 08:06 PM
#16
CFOT Attention Whore
Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (SoCal C5)
*donning flame retardant suit*
to all, i really don't intend to flame anyone so don't take it personally.
now, having said that, if you want seat time, forget any of the NCCC events. this forum is the only corvette club i belong to. if your looking for seat time, hook up with the SCCA or NASA or some other group in you area that spends alot of time on the track. if i only got 3 or 4 runs at an event, i would feel ripped off. plus SCCA events are typically less than a NCCC even and they're held more frequently. here in las vegas, we have 18-22 events a year (about one every 2-3 weeks with about 1.5 months off during the 'winter') and it's generally a disappointing day if we get less than five runs. sometimes we will get 8-10 runs per event (daytime), except our night series where 3-5 is common.
again, not intending to insult anyone here, all this advise is good, i just disagree with a couple of points. don't go to a school--yet. since this was your first auto-x, try a few more and make sure you want to do this alot before you invest in it. for some people, once the novelty wears off, they will only attend a couple of events a year. a couple hundred dollars for this school or that school is great for the people your paying but if you don't exercise those skills often, it's lessons wasted. or worse, it's money you could have spent for a half dozen auto-x's and gotten that much more seat time.
if you really want the time, you can do like me and gamble against a ticket. go find yourself a quiet, secluded industrial park or whatever and practice certain elements. just keep your eyes open for johnny law and keep thinking of good excuses for the judge.
*flame retardant suit off*
to all, i really don't intend to flame anyone so don't take it personally.
now, having said that, if you want seat time, forget any of the NCCC events. this forum is the only corvette club i belong to. if your looking for seat time, hook up with the SCCA or NASA or some other group in you area that spends alot of time on the track. if i only got 3 or 4 runs at an event, i would feel ripped off. plus SCCA events are typically less than a NCCC even and they're held more frequently. here in las vegas, we have 18-22 events a year (about one every 2-3 weeks with about 1.5 months off during the 'winter') and it's generally a disappointing day if we get less than five runs. sometimes we will get 8-10 runs per event (daytime), except our night series where 3-5 is common.
again, not intending to insult anyone here, all this advise is good, i just disagree with a couple of points. don't go to a school--yet. since this was your first auto-x, try a few more and make sure you want to do this alot before you invest in it. for some people, once the novelty wears off, they will only attend a couple of events a year. a couple hundred dollars for this school or that school is great for the people your paying but if you don't exercise those skills often, it's lessons wasted. or worse, it's money you could have spent for a half dozen auto-x's and gotten that much more seat time.
if you really want the time, you can do like me and gamble against a ticket. go find yourself a quiet, secluded industrial park or whatever and practice certain elements. just keep your eyes open for johnny law and keep thinking of good excuses for the judge.
*flame retardant suit off*
07-17-2002, 09:36 PM
#17
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Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (ghoffman)
Well, if it makes you feel any better:
Dennis Bauer (Blackshark) and I have won our share of races (SCCA road racing, time trials, etc.) and one day we decided to try an Auto-X. To make a long story short, we sucked and were the slowest guys there. Heck, I had a hard time just figuring out which way the course went in the sea of cones!
By the end of the day I think I figured out which way to go, but I still sucked!
My conclusions are that you:
1)need to just do it, many, many times and you will eventually get better, and:
2) Auto-X and road race are totally different skill sets and have almost no cross over.
Dennis Bauer (Blackshark) and I have won our share of races (SCCA road racing, time trials, etc.) and one day we decided to try an Auto-X. To make a long story short, we sucked and were the slowest guys there. Heck, I had a hard time just figuring out which way the course went in the sea of cones!
By the end of the day I think I figured out which way to go, but I still sucked!
My conclusions are that you:
1)need to just do it, many, many times and you will eventually get better, and:
2) Auto-X and road race are totally different skill sets and have almost no cross over.
I love autocrossing in New England, most of the events are on an old Air Force base ( Ft Devens ), nothing to run into, they are second gear courses, and we typically get 8 runs that count plus fun runs.
Run with as many clubs as you can. Back in Detroit I used to run once a month, once with the Corvette Club of Michigan, once with the SCCA, once with the Detroit Cousil ... OK actually I went every weekend from spring to fall :D
Take a notepad with you and sketch out the course. I had trouble on the N.E. courses because they don't caulk the course like Detroit does, now that I bring the sketch pad I don't, or at least I can figure out where. Talk to the faster drivers see if you can walk with them, walk the course at least 3 times. If they do fun runs, have one of the faster drivers drive your car with you in the passenger seat, and make note of wear he/she pushes it, and where he/she takes it easy. Sometimes slow is fast.
[Modified by BrianCunningham, 8:38 PM 7/17/2002]
07-17-2002, 10:05 PM
#19
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Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (rbeckham)
It must be the caulking that gives me the trouble! :)
07-18-2002, 09:08 AM
#20
Re: How does one ever become good at autocross (clutchdust)
Here in the SE, we are lucky to get 3 runs a day with the scca, so we just quit going. With the NCCC, usually it is a 10-14 event weekend and 2-3 runs per event. Without question if you are looking for seat time, NCCC events is where you need to be in the SE. A driving school would have more seat time than both if you can find one.
What do you think vettmike?? :cheers:
What do you think vettmike?? :cheers: