wtb-z

If you are wedded to the "cool car idea" any C5 should work well. They work great out of the box, all versions will be reasonably competitive in an AX class, and they are getting pretty cheap. I would reccomend a later AH/TC car - AH is useless for learning performance driving but nice to keep everyone safe on the street.

Sgt.Gator

How about a 2003-2007 WRX?
Cool Factor among young folks: Check
Head room for 6'4" + Helmet room: Check
Fast: Check
Traction: Check
Price: $8-13K. Check
Fun to Drive: Oh Yeah!

Lots of headroom for you. Plenty of power, maybe too much, with the turbo 4. AWD. They perform incredibly well. Here's an example close to me: http://bend.craigslist.org/cto/4232405525.html

dmyers

AP1 S2000 (2001-2003) - nicer and more powerful than a Miata (costs a little more but still probably less than half of a C5Z.). Put a stiff front swaybar on it a 225 square Star Specs on it and he'll have a fantastically balanced momentum car to learn with that's reliable and a blast to zing up to the 9k redline. I still find my 03 S2000 more fun to autocross than my 08 Z06 (but it can't compare to the Z for track days.)

UstaB-GS549

1987 -88 Fiero GT V6 5 speed. $2,500

Make sure it has stock suspension (more difficult to drive fast). The car has no ABS, will push like a pig at entry and then switch to oversteer in the middle of a corner. I would not recommend practicing trail braking if there are hard objects when you go off course backwards.

135 HP and 5 speed makes if feel kind of fast without going too fast. The front steering damper (if it is still on car) will provide steering effort levels similar to a dump truck and the turning circle is larger than a Corvette!

It's a momentum car like a Miata, except heavier and evil handling.

If he can learn to drive a Fiero quickly, he can handle anything afterwards.

93Rubie

For the reasons everyone listed an older C4 might just be the ticket. Cheap, less HP, forgiving chassis, parts a dime a dozen, fairly reliable-compared to a some other things, you'll learn some basic auto mechanic skills, etc....

I love Miata's and S2000's they drive like a dream, so nimble, but lets face it guys/gals we own Corvettes because V8. Need I say more....

Be cautious with AP1 S2000's unless you plan on putting on a stiffer front bar, they are knife edge twitchy at the limit. Oversteer and I mean SNAP oversteer in bone stock form. NOT a forgiving car to drive. They car be fast, if the driver has fast hands and reflexes. Fun but CAN be a handful.

I started auto-x at 23 in my Corvette, I learned. I agree with Solofasts assessment of less hp versus lots of hp cars. Its harder to learn throttle control. I can jump into (and have) a Miata or S2000 and go fast because I have throttle control. Its SO easy to use the throttle in a low HP and low torque car. I cannot take the S2000 owner and have him drive my C4 and be as fast as I am because he cannot handle the throttle properly. (I beat him in his own S2000-co-drives can be fun).

Especially on street tires I've learned the throttle control first, I'm still perfecting keeping my momentum as much as possible. The fact I can jump in a momentum car and go fast....that says something about learning in a (relatively speaking) higher HP and TQ car.

You also need to consider what kind of driving style your son is. Is he aggressive or more laid back?
I like Sgt. Gator's suggestion, the WRX thing is a good idea. Aftermarket is HUGE and they are cheap to build. One won ESP this past season.

dmyers

The driving dynamics of the WRX is that it handles more like a front drive car and I've found the AWD covers up a lot of mistakes making it harder to transition to rear drive cars.

And yes - you're dead right about the AP1 S2000 (actually all of them) you want a big stiff front sway bar.

ooldguy93

What is your son's prior racing experience ?

Instead of the purchasing / maintaining / insuring / setting up, etc and DD / Track car you might want to check the amount of desire / enthusiasm to actually do this.

How about many session's of in-door karting ?

He'll learn a lot and after a few outing's it'll be easy for both of you to decide what's next

rkdc5z06

Get him a Miata or S2000.

FASTFATBOY

E36 M3 is probably the best compromise between the Miata and a Higher HP car like a Vette.

If he were my kid.

Miata first

E36 M3 next

Then a C5

Or just the Miata, when he gets REALLY good in it, LS Swap it.

NASCAR314

Since this is the "corvetteforum".....I'd stay with your idea of a C4 in the 1986 -1991 manual trans. L-98 motor and you could be in for under $7k easy, that leaves you $3k for springs, shocks, sway bars, wheels & tires, brake rotors & pads, and a basic engine tune up. All that for under $10,000 is a great idea and would be highly competitive in NCCC autocross. I believe you said the objective was to have fun and learn to drive and maintain the car? 2 driver cars breed competition!

SledgeHammer 2.0

That's about the whole enchilada. He has some indoor Karting experience, but who doesn't love swinging a cart around a bunch of tight turns in an A/C building. I know he likes cars and I don't think this will be a total shot in the dark, but I don't know if it would be a long term hobby or just something that lasts a couple of times.


Fun/ Father-Son time/ Something to Focus on/ Learn some more about cars/bragging to his buddies/a little family friendly competition/ etc etc etc....

Bill Dearborn

I believe the early C4 works better than the later C4. Especially the base suspension cars. An 85 doesn't even have ABS. The advantage of the TPI C4 is that it is a great 2nd gear low rpm car that has a lot of torque to get off the corners. I used to run on a Go Kart track in NY State. Over the years I ran the 86 4+3, 97, 03Z and 08Z. I had a lot of FTDs at that track but the best FTD was in the 86. The closest I could get to it was about 7 years later in the 03Z which ran about a half second slower. The 86 and the 03Z were very similar since they were both great 2nd gear cars. Take off in low, shift to 2nd as soon as you have time and leave it there. 97 and the C6Z had the wrong transmission gearing so really can't run well at low rpms in 2nd. Since both of those cars had to use low gear car control using the throttle was more difficult.

That is the one thing that wasn't mentioned in one of the other posts. You can use the off throttle engine torque reaction to steer the car neatly in a turn. A rubber band engined car doesn't have enough torque reaction to make the car turn as quickly. I can still feel how I could brake the Z hard going into a U Turn, carry just a little too much speed into the corner, lift off the brake and let the engine slow the rear wheels just before the apex, which made the backend slide sideways followed by applying throttle just at the right time to power out of the corner.

Bill

jamesNewman

I am with everyone advising cars OTHER than a Corvette. Unless you're running it on proper tires (r-comps), they're not very good. This year, when Junior/Strano/Myself performed a tire test on my FRC (which won the 2013 Pro Solo Championship for S4, so you know it's a good car that is well setup), when we bolted up the street tires (BFG Rivals in this case), we were running times slower than what H-Stock runs. Not expedient to say the least. I wound up selling it because of the eradication of Stock class, as I have no want to drive the car in that futile state of "Street" class.

If you're just trying to get some type of fun kick-around car, there are a lot of good other suggestions on here.

Sox-Fan

Chevy CobaltSS are a dime-a-dozen and are Fantastic AutoX cars. For very little money you can turn a Cobalt into a killer SMF car. The supercharged version will do an admirable job and the turbo version even better.

lefrog

The C4 is a fantastic car to learn. Having recently upgraded to a C5Z, I can tell you that the C5Z is way too much of a car to start learning with.
I happen to have a 1990 C4 Z51 for sale with all the goodies you might want for AutoX and HPDE: https://www.corvetteforum.com/c4s-fo...estern-ma.html
There is plenty to learn with the adjustable suspension and these are really reliable cars. I recommend sticking with street tires, you learn much more and C4s have limited front camber anyway in the front so you can't really use slicks without camber plates. The L98 doesn't rev very high but it's reliable and pulls very hard in the low range. It's really a fun car.
Plus they are ridiculously cheap for what you get and you can still find tons of parts (especially here on the forum).

93Rubie

Not to get too far off topic but I was VERY close to contacting you and buying your C5. Ryan Lower told me about it. Your price was stupid low.

That being said, I've found my C4 to work pretty good on street tires. Granted I'm not you or Sam Strano in my driving capabilities but I've held my own just fine against much smaller cars at Steel Cities events where they do have a mix of very good drivers. As long as I did my part driving the car. Then again that is local level not national level. That and I've never ran R-comps so I don't know the purple crack. Another plus for street tires is they don't mask mistakes like R-comps or so I've been told and I believe it.

I vote again for a C4 it really does fit the bill in this case.
The only issue with early cars is finding good rubber in 16 inch sizes. You'd have to go 17 inch and settle for 255's or so in GOOD rubber. Lesser rubber is available in 275/40/17. I get the advantage of running a later car with 17's so I can run 18's and still be legal per 2014 SCCA rules.

Then again if its just for fun, run what you brung.

SledgeHammer 2.0

I appreciate all the responses. I understand all the reasons why I should be considering a Non-Corvette, but a Corvette is what I am still looking for. My driving skills are mediocre at best, I am in it just for the fun and the friendly competition. I gotten long enough in life to realize the winner isn't always the guy holding the $10.00 trophy, it's the guy with the biggest smile on his face. If I stick to Corvette, I can do the NCCC stuff also. Keep it clean enough and he can do Cruise in car nights..

There is a 96 Grand Sport nearby for sale. and a 96 LT4 six speed car, both with good miles, the GS is considerably more $$(like 50%more), but has the Z51, The LT4 car does not have Z51. Is the GS Z51 worth 6K more, if everything else was comparable?

69autoXr

'87 manual trans car for sale located in Tx:

http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/aft/444963

There are also a couple of Stock/Street C5's (a Z06 and an FRC) for sale on the same forum, both screamin' deals. There's also a BSP '92 for sale.

Rob31

I have a 86. It would have been a great cone killer with the auto , but I switched it to a manual . I do mostly full road courses Blackhawk /Autobahn / Gingerman
three years and a total 10 -12 grand into it .
Had a few electrical , steering colomn , power steering pump ,wheel bearing issues .
Buy one that's already sorted . lots less work
Learn on street tires , Or the kid might not learn much .My mom could drive this car fast on slicks .
No magic swaybar /spring combo .car is decent with almost anything .
Stock shortblock still runs great after three years of abuse .

Solofast

You really don't want a 96 anything. The base cars came with soft springs and skinny front wheels and tires, and even the Grand Sports came with soft springs. What you really want in a C4 is a 93-95 Z07 car, or an earlier Z51.

If you have the soft springs you'll end up hating the way the car floats around and frankly it isn't much fun to drive. Also you can't upgrade the 96 legally in either SCCA or NCCC since the stiffer springs weren't available that year at all.

Here is a link to the Hib Halverson's C4 suspension chart and this tells you what option packages you want.

http://www.netmotive.net/articles/hib/c4/sustunch.pdf

The Z07 cars are easy to spot, they have big front brakes. If you look at the front wheels and see it once you will know what you are looking for.

They only made about 800 of those cars a year and they are hard to find. If you buy a base suspension car from 93-95 you can upgrade it with the Z07 springs, sway bars and brakes, but that is a lot of work (as Rubie mentioned earlier).. But you really want to stay away from any 96' if you intend to do any autocrossing or track day work with it.

Keep an eye on the C4 for sale pages of the forum. Z07 cars show up there from time to time, but the owners tend to know that they are sought after and know what they have, so they aren't as cheap.

If you are looking at local dealers you can often steal one since they have no idea as to what they have... Just look for the six speed and the big brakes...