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Old 07-03-2002, 08:32 PM   #1
dantos
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Member Since: Sep 2000
Location: indiana
Default How can you increase negative camber after all shims are removed?

All my shims are out and the max negative camber I can get on my 89 C-4 is .80. Does anyone make a lower control arm that is slightly longer so that I could get some camber adjustment flexibility?
Are there any thoughts on how to do this without spending big bucks?
Thanks,
Steve
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Old 07-03-2002, 09:34 PM   #2
RX7 KLR
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Default Re: How can you increase negative camber after all shims are removed? (dantos)

Guy Ankeny , Ankeny Racing Ent, makes a lower and upper arm with offset bushings that is good for 2 or so degrees. 1-805-279-1338


[Modified by RX7 KLR, 7:35 PM 7/3/2002]
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Old 07-04-2002, 09:10 AM   #3
h rocks
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Default Re: How can you increase negative camber after all shims are removed? (dantos)

RXkiller is correct, but Guy really makes those bushings for the ridiculous SCCA Solo II rulebook that only allows replacement bushings and NO "modifications" to the upper conical spacers. The competitors spend tons on parts like that so that they can be "legal". dantos, if you are planning on lowering the front end of your car, you will be able to get more than enough neg camber out of it. If not, just get a set of the later conical spacers for the upper control arms and have them machined much thinner. Then you can still maintain the conical male/female"interlock" effect on the upper control arm and achieve more neg. camber. Replacing the LCA bushings is a good idea, but I would (and did) replace them with the Global West bushings. (Calif. Doug) They are really fine pieces and will never squish out. (aluminum and Delrin)
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Old 07-04-2002, 12:11 PM   #4
ET
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Default Re: How can you increase negative camber after all shims are removed? (dantos)

..............But if you are running SCCA and want to remain legal,Vette Brakes and Products make those Lower Control Arm Offset Polyurethane Bushings.Cost me $99.00 from VB&P. :yesnod: Legal= :blueangel: Upheld Protest after Win= :mad


[Modified by ET, 10:29 AM 7/4/2002]
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Old 07-04-2002, 02:34 PM   #5
C4racing
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Default Re: How can you increase negative camber after all shims are removed? (h rocks)

I agree with hrocks. If you don't have to worry about the technicalities of a rulebook, the fastest, least expensive way to add negative camber to the front wheels is to reduce the thickness of the front spacers.

Specifically, there are 4 spacers touching each front upper control arm. Two inboard, 2 outboard per side. If you look at the 2 inboard spacers on each side you'll notice that the front spacers are thicker than the rear spacers. If you don't want to adversely affect caster then I'd suggest machining the same amount of material off each spacer so that when finished the rear spacers will still be thinner than the front spacers.

Measure the thickness of the (thinner) rear spacer, have a competent person (preferably with a lathe) remove as much material from the flat face of the rear spacer as possible while still preserving the cupped contour on the other face. Measure the thickness again and the difference = amount machined off. Machine off the same amount from the thicker front spacer. Repeat for the 2 spacers on the other side of the car.

For the record, I've heard of at least 2 other methods:
1) The offset control arm bushing method described in earlier posts.
2) (don't laugh) Bend the frame. Yes, some people have been known to "move" the upper control arm mounting 'ears' inward to gain more negative camber. Actually I think this is legal as long as the frame ends up within factory tolerances (which must be pretty liberal since your car only gets -.8* with no shims whereas other cars straight from the factory can approach -2*). Have you ever heard of someone shopping a Vette lot by raising the hood and counting shims on new cars to decide which they'd like to buy for "stock" car racing? :seeya :eek: :D
:seeya
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Old 07-04-2002, 02:39 PM   #6
gstama
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Default Re: How can you increase negative camber after all shims are removed? (ET)

You also have two sizes of big shims in there take a look, swich them or buy the smaller shims and replace the big shims, i know it works, on my c4 in doing this i got 1.5 to 1.7 neg.
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Old 07-04-2002, 04:56 PM   #7
BrianCunningham
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Default Re: How can you increase negative camber after all shims are removed? (gstama)

I've pull the conical washers out all together at non-SCCA events.

My Hoosiers which are very sensitive to camber just loved them :D

I couldn't believe how fast I could take tight turns.
You lose all castor, but I really didn't notice it.
When I switch back to my street tires I pop them back it.
real easy.

From now on at all non-SCCA event's they are coming out! :cheers:
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Old 07-04-2002, 06:48 PM   #8
C4racing
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Default Re: How can you increase negative camber after all shims are removed? (BrianCunningham)

WARNING:
The shim removal you've just described can have a dramatic affect on "toe" alingnment. I'd highly suggest that you check toe before and after the shim removal (make sure to roll the car back and forth in between) to check the toe. Part of the shim removal procedure will probably involve changing toe in/out any time you play with the shims.

One reason your car may have handled better is because you changed from a toe in condition to a toe out condition which helped you turn-in better. But you probably already knew that..... :yesnod:
:seeya
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Old 07-05-2002, 12:09 AM   #9
BrianCunningham
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Default Re: How can you increase negative camber after all shims are removed? (C4racing)

Thanks for the warning. :blueangel:
But I've been changing the toe everytime I go to the track anyways, just for that reason.
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Old 07-06-2002, 11:56 AM   #10
dantos
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Default Re: How can you increase negative camber after all shims are removed? (BrianCunningham)

Thanks guys for the great input, you've given me several options to ponder and to do something with.
Thanks again,
Steve
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Old 07-06-2002, 11:56 AM
 
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